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"One small step for man...."

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
38 years ago today we put a man on the moon. Probably one of the single greatest achievements in the history of the planet. I only wish I'd been old enough to see and appreciate what was happening at the time. I can't imagine what it must have been like watching those grainy black and white images and knowing they were coming from the surface of another planet.

Being a nut for the whole space race era (The Right Stuff, Apollo 13, and From the Earth to the Moon are in regular rotation here), it's heartbreaking to see how NASA planned to have a permanent base on the moon by the late 70s and to land on Mars some time in the 80s. And then it all got pissed away over politics. Yes, the program cost a ton of money, but there's something to be said for striving to achieve great things, and as technically challenging a feat as it is, launching umpteen space shuttles into orbit just doesn't have the same mind-capturing grandeur as three men drifting through the void to land on another world.
Now they say we're ten years away from going back to the moon. We went from never having put a human into space to landing on the moon in less time than that.

I think the exploration of space is vitally important to the survival of the species, and not just in the sense of exploring other planets -- look at all the technological advances the space program brought into every day life. But there's also the sense of hope, the sense of wonder, the sense of striving for something greater. Billions of people watched the moon landing across the globe, and while yes, it "won" the space race for the USA, in that moment, it wasn't about two Americans on the moon, it was about two humans on the moon.

In the "1968" episode of From the Earth to the Moon, the Apollo 8 flight is contrasted with what a generally shitty year 1968 was. And then the crew made their famous Christmas Eve reading of Genesis from orbit around the moon, and the episode so perfectly captures the effect it had -- as the crew is being read congratulatory telegraphs from various dignitaries around the world, they're read one by a little old lady who simply says, "Thank you. You saved 1968." And that scene never fails to tear me up. I really wish this country was capable of something like that again.

So if you're able to spot the moon any time today, take a moment to look up there and remember -- we've been there.
post #2 of 38
Fuck those corrupt, shortsighted, chicken shit politicians who killed the space program. Fuck the people who agree with them, too. In the ear.

Comparing our rate of progress up to the moon landing to the one since then is depressing. In my opinion there's no sacrifice big enough in human lives or money that should discourage us. By limiting ourselves on Earth we are placing a hard limit on our development. Sooner or later we'll just end up on a planet so overpopulated, starved of natural resources and polluted that this reality will hit us. I hope it's not too late by then.

Another thread about space exploration, another rant from me. Sorry but I just get mad when I think about it. I want a moon base dammit!
post #3 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
Fuck those corrupt, shortsighted, chicken shit politicians who killed the space program. Fuck the people who agree with them, too. In the ear.

Comparing our rate of progress up to the moon landing to the one since then is depressing. In my opinion there's no sacrifice big enough in human lives or money that should discourage us. By limiting ourselves on Earth we are placing a hard limit on our development. Sooner or later we'll just end up on a planet so overpopulated, starved of natural resources and polluted that this reality will hit us. I hope it's not too late by then.

Another thread about space exploration, another rant from me. Sorry but I just get mad when I think about it. I want a moon base dammit!
I was hoping we'd be on Mars by now. I'd read about terraforming the planet awhile ago - by now, we'd have our first permanent residents kickin' it Martian style if we'd followed the timetable. Plus the money to be made in such an endeavor... I'm disappointed no one's followed up on this.
post #4 of 38
He said "one small step for A man."
post #5 of 38
Maybe, but no one heard it.
post #6 of 38
The more I think about it, and I do think about it a lot, the more it just pisses me off. Think long term, people! Having a moonbase is awesome and for those political nutjobs, guess what we can put there? Missiles! Tons of em!

Does anyone have a figure of how much the war has cost versus how much NASA needed to get ourselves operating on the moon AND onto Mars?
post #7 of 38
Great thread. I know there have been a ton of books on this, but the one from last year - "First Man" by James Hansen (longtime NASA historian) - is really head and shoulders above the rest as he's the first one to really get Armstrong's side of things (his friendship with Lindbergh, why he disappeared from public life, etc.). Can't recommend it highly enough.
post #8 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinquus
He said "one small step for A man."
Actually, he planned to say "one small step for a man," but in the moment he forget the "a". Listen to the audio -- there's no audible gap between "for" and "man", nowhere where the audio dropped out, nowhere for that "a" to have been.
post #9 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilin' Jack Ruby
Great thread. I know there have been a ton of books on this, but the one from last year - "First Man" by James Hansen (longtime NASA historian) - is really head and shoulders above the rest as he's the first one to really get Armstrong's side of things (his friendship with Lindbergh, why he disappeared from public life, etc.). Can't recommend it highly enough.
I'm reading A Man on the Moon by Andrew Chaikin, which was the inspiration for the HBO series From the Earth to the Moon. What amazes me is how fucking on NASA was. You watch the movie Apollo 13 and you think "Damn, those guys were sharp to come up with this stuff at the last minute," then you read this book and realize most of the plans during 13 had been developed months earlier as emergency contingencies. And the astronauts keep talking about how anticlimactic the missions seemed sometimes, since everything had been simulated and planned and designed to such a precise degree, all they had to do was follow the flight plan. Not to diminish the risk and effort of the actual astronauts, but the engineers and flight control people deserve a hell of a lot of credit too.
post #10 of 38
Thank you, Jackie Gleason.
post #11 of 38
What's even more depressing is how we deal with such a huge moment in human history. Men walked on the moon and instead of embracing that fact and shifting our whole frame of reference we try our hardest to distance ourselves from it. We act as if the moon landing was something trivial. It should fucking be an international holiday. It was and in the rate things are going will be for a long time the zenith of the human race.
post #12 of 38
The only way we'll get NASA back on point is if another Cold War develops. C'mon, China! Help us get The Right Stuff back!
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Now they say we're ten years away from going back to the moon. We went from never having put a human into space to landing on the moon in less time than that.
Never thought about it from that perspective. How depressing.

I agree that abandoning the Space Program (or at least neutering it) is one of the more depressing, short-sighted decisions our government has made over the course of my lifetime. At least I can look forward to the silencing of the moon landing conspiracy-theorists in my lifetime.
post #14 of 38
Pffft, that didn't happen, it was all faked in a studio, Capricorn One-style.


BTW did you ever notice that the planes slamming into the WTC have no windows? And what are those pod things on the bottom? OMFGBOHEMIANGROVENOPLANEWRECKAGEATTHEPENTAGONSKULL ANDBONESANDABIGFUCKINGOWL!!!1


Seriously though, fuck the ones who held back the space program indeed. JFK promised a man on the moon and there was one in that decade, and there's barely been any progress since. 38 years and we haven't gotten man past the moon. All we do is put up satellites to make sure everyone in the world can watch some fat girl's video blog.
post #15 of 38
I think I'll pop in my copy of For All Mankind in order to mark the occasion. Anyone who has never seen that film should go pick up a copy ASAP; it's breathtaking and beautiful.
post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Actually, he planned to say "one small step for a man," but in the moment he forget the "a". Listen to the audio -- there's no audible gap between "for" and "man", nowhere where the audio dropped out, nowhere for that "a" to have been.
These things happen. John Wilkes Booth meant to say "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus" because he took too much laudanum and thought Lincoln was a dinosaur.
post #17 of 38
I am one of those who is old enough to remember watching it live. It was a moment you never forget. My Mother could not believe that a child under the age of 10 would patiently wait in line for over 4 hours to see a small gray Moon rock, but I did. The biggest difference we have today is the Space Program used to bring in the absolute best people in their fields and now we depend on the lowest bidder. I think it was the PBS mini-series they did on the history of television that spoke of the meaning of the first Moon landing the best. When asked, most experts said if you truly wanted to see the power of television all you had to do was look at July 20, 1969 and see how for that one day all borders disappeared and all mankind became as one.
post #18 of 38
Agreed that it should be an international holiday. In the latest Simon Winchester book, "A Crack on the Edge of the World" about the great San Francisco earthquake, Winchester spends much of the first chapter (Winchester being a geologist-turned-cultural-historian) talking about how being able to see the Earth from the Moon "changed everything" in the way people thought - seeing the Earth as an organism and how future generations will never really be able to comprehend what it was like BEFORE men landed on the moon and how people born afterwards just kind of take it for granted.

Which is kind of sad.
post #19 of 38
Just the other day, I was watching a Popeye cartoon (from the '50s) with my kids, and he gets blasted off Earth in a rocket. Everything they showed was incorrect. The blue sky lasted til after they passed the moon, and the representation of the Earth as it fell off in the distance was completely wrong.

I realize it was only a cartoon, but think of what we've learned from NASA and the space program of the 60's. What knowledge are we missing out on today with such a limited space program?
post #20 of 38
Moreover, how will we ever make contact with Kuato if we don't get to Mars?
post #21 of 38
I think people in general used to relish a challenge a bit more. You used to have people climbing mountains just because they were there. The Olympics used to be a much bigger deal because people wanted to see how far a human being could push him/her self. Now the people who would have conquered everest are seeing how many mid air rotations they can do on a snowboard, and athletes are more concerned with winning so they can secure a better sponsorship deal, than testing human limits and representing their country.

Human ambition andvancement has been replaced with personal ambition and career advancement. Does Nasa need more money, or does the world need more dreamers? Probably both, but I think having either without the other won't be enough to propell us to a new world.
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by The LD
Moreover, how will we ever make contact with Kuato if we don't get to Mars?
"The Martians love Kuato. They think he's fuckin' George Washington."
post #23 of 38
I'd like to think that private industry needs to take a hell of a lot more interest in space. I'm always reminded of how, after Columbus returned to Spain, the ship-building industries took off in an effort to get to the new world. All it would take is one company to put together a reasonable effort, establish a colony on the moon - a resort or something - and everyone else would just follow their lead. Don't get me wrong, I realize that it is much more difficult than that, but I still think that there'd be a bit of a boon if private industry got involved.

The government has completely destroyed NASA; it's a wonder that it's around at all these days. A teacher of mine used to say, "Fuck the poor, let's go to Mars." The basic assumption being that, we know that a great amount of our social welfare programs have little to no effect. So why not just channel that money into something that we know will work: going to Mars. An interesting point to ponder.
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Allen
What knowledge are we missing out on today with such a limited space program?
I really want to know what actually happens to a human body in the cold vacuum of space: does it explode, freeze like Tim Robbins, or what? Lethal injection is boring: let's shoot death row inmates into orbit and blow the airlocks!
post #25 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoNuggs
I'd like to think that private industry needs to take a hell of a lot more interest in space. I'm always reminded of how, after Columbus returned to Spain, the ship-building industries took off in an effort to get to the new world. All it would take is one company to put together a reasonable effort, establish a colony on the moon - a resort or something - and everyone else would just follow their lead. Don't get me wrong, I realize that it is much more difficult than that, but I still think that there'd be a bit of a boon if private industry got involved.
The only thing that worries me is that we might one day see Mountain Dew Extreme Moonwalk.
post #26 of 38
I think the problem with private enterprise is that it's very, very difficult to come up with a viable business model for something like a moon colony. The trips would have to be prohibitively expensive, at which point the pool of customers is too small to recoup the R&D costs.

I think a more likely outcome is that private enterprise keeps trying to improve on our methods of propulsion, aerodynamic design, and other more detail-oriented concerns until the it becomes reasonably economical to allow NASA to be that ambitious.
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Slade
I really want to know what actually happens to a human body in the cold vacuum of space: does it explode, freeze like Tim Robbins, or what? Lethal injection is boring: let's shoot death row inmates into orbit and blow the airlocks!
The blood boils from the sudden and extreme change in pressure (vaccuum), then it freezes from the drop in temperature. AND the body explodes outward, due to the lack of pressure pushing on the outside. I imagine it all happens simultaneously.


How are we going to be prepared to send our oil-drillers up to space when the astroid comes a knockin', if we don't have much of a space program?

Dickson, you get out to the Cape much? I've been in Orlando 2 years now and I've really been itching to go. I've been waiting for my step-dad to visit, but I think I'll get out there sooner. EPCOT's space rides just don't cut it.
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
Another thread about space exploration, another rant from me. Sorry but I just get mad when I think about it. I want a moon base dammit!

We better be careful with that, we could end up in a Cowboy Bebop universe if Bush's Millenium gate bill gets thru congress.
post #29 of 38
According to Nasa's website the blood boiling thing is actually a bit of a myth due to the circulatory system being self contained (so no different than a sealed canister of liquid in a vacuum).
Aparently during a test in a vacuum chamber the test subjects suit was improperally attatched so lost all pressure. All that happened was any skin that was exposed swelled, and the saliva in his mouth boiled off. He felt a bit dizzy from the lack of oxygen, and that was it.
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8
Dickson, you get out to the Cape much? I've been in Orlando 2 years now and I've really been itching to go. I've been waiting for my step-dad to visit, but I think I'll get out there sooner. EPCOT's space rides just don't cut it.
I've never been out to the cape, and always wanted to. One thing that scared the hell out of me when I first moved here was the sonic boom from the shuttle coming back - I remember being inside the house, and the windows rattled like crazy. I thought it was an explosion down the street or something...

I've heard that watching the shuttle launch is not as good now, because they don't let people get as close to the launch site post 9-11. If you're on a boat in the ocean, I think you have to stay 5 miles away or something like that...
post #31 of 38
The problem with expecting the private sector to pick up the effort is that while space exploration will indeed bring HUGE amounts of profit in the long run, the initial investment is equally huge. I don't think there's a private corporation that can finance a space program without bankrupting in a few years. That's why governments should bite the bullet and set the foundations.

And although "Fuck the poor, let's go to Mars" may be a little simplified it is actually quite correct. The world will never be in order. Even if we honestly try, which we won't do, we'll never fix things here. Factories will keep polluting, the poor will keep starving, wars will keep breaking out. This is our natural state and an extra reason to spread our insanity among the stars so it won't be so obvious.
post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by horrid
According to Nasa's website the blood boiling thing is actually a bit of a myth due to the circulatory system being self contained (so no different than a sealed canister of liquid in a vacuum).
Aparently during a test in a vacuum chamber the test subjects suit was improperally attatched so lost all pressure. All that happened was any skin that was exposed swelled, and the saliva in his mouth boiled off. He felt a bit dizzy from the lack of oxygen, and that was it.
Damn. I like my messier version better.
post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8
Dickson, you get out to the Cape much? I've been in Orlando 2 years now and I've really been itching to go. I've been waiting for my step-dad to visit, but I think I'll get out there sooner. EPCOT's space rides just don't cut it.
I have a friend who worked for Lockheed Martin, so we got to out there about five years ago and watch an Atlas launch from the visitors area. It was amazing, and I can only imagine what it's like to see a shuttle or Saturn launch that close. Haven't visited the space center in a while, although as a kid my family went during the Bicentennial and it was spectacular -- they let you walk around inside the Vehicle Assembly Building and let you get closer to the secure areas than ever before, or since. And they had a Saturn rocket laid on its side and it seemed like it took forever to walk around the thing. Just awesome. I did go years later and got to see one of the shuttles on the pad before a launch, that was quite the site too.

When I was a kid we lived out in Bithlo, which is about halfway between the Cape and downtown Orlando. And we could feel the ground shake there when the Saturns launched for the later Apollo missions. And even today, people still go outside to watch the shuttle launches. I remember last year when they had the 4th of July launch, I was working at Universal and guest and employees came streaming out of nowhere to watch it. Space still holds some magic, we just need to be doing something more than just sending up shuttle after shuttle.
post #34 of 38
Once we get a working space elevator, and the price of a orbital launch drops below $100 a pound. We will see business more of a roll in space development. Right now that $1000 a pound orbital launch is just to expansive for most business models.
post #35 of 38
Quote:
When I was a kid we lived out in Bithlo,
Wow, there's a town name I haven't heard in awhile. I used to date a girl in Bithlo. Middle of nowhere doesn't even begin to describe it. At least not in the 90's.

On topic: I grew up in Merritt Island, and yes, the entire world shook during a launch. It was always something to see. My dad worked for NASA back in the 70's, so I saw many a launch from the pad. I'm told I saw Apollo 11 go off from the pad, but I was 11 months old at the time.
post #36 of 38
I was cruising the apple trailers page, and saw this. Haven't heard of it before, but I know it's something that a lot of people in this thread are probably interested in seeing.

In the Shadow of the Moon

Here's the gist of it.

Quote:
Between 1968 and 1972, nine American spacecraft voyaged to the Moon, and 12 men walked upon its surface. IN THE SHADOW OF THE MOON brings together for the first, and possibly the last, time surviving crew members from every single Apollo mission that flew to the Moon along with visually stunning archival material re-mastered from the original NASA film footage. The result is an intimate epic that vividly communicates the daring, the danger, the pride, and the promise of this extraordinary era in history when the whole world literally looked up at America.
post #37 of 38

Live Space Walk

NASA TV provides live coverage of STS-118, Endeavour's mission to the International Space Station.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/live_tv.html
post #38 of 38
Time to go back. By 2012 nonetheless.

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
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