The Folks Who Are Glad Harry Potter is Over

I'm glad it ended well, as opposed to the many lousy saga endings we've gotten in the past few years.

I don't think I am, but I'm not sure. I've never read a page of the books, and I will watch a movie if it's on HBO, but I don't seek them out.

My trepidation comes from the positive effects of kids reading. Whether or not you care for the subject matter, it's hard to concoct an argument against kids reading books, particularly ones that seem to be very well-crafted. My concern is that without the Harry Potter books, we're going to lose some of that momentum. There are plenty of good counter-arguments (for instance, do the kids really like reading if all they want to read is Harry Potter?), but it's still a legit concern. We live in a country full of illiterates (functional or otherwise), and I can't help but think of these books as a societal good, even if they've created a bit of a cultural hegemony in childrens lit.

I read the first two books, saw the first movie, then never went back. It just didn't grab me, but I'm not much for the fantasy genre in the first place. I will be glad not to be inundated with the coverage every time there's a new book or movie and not to have to hear adults use the word "muggle."

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go camp out for the Simpsons movie.

Hopefully it'll help Jonathon Stroud's Bartimeus Trilogy.

While I don't work there anymore, I worked in a public library for three years. I was there when Order of the Phoenix came out. The kids flipped for it. Rather than waiting for the automated system to call people and tell them that their copy of the book was ready to go, we called the kids ourselves. I've rarely heard or seen such unbridled glee (average time between receipt of phone call and arrival at the library - 10 minutes). But here's the thing - I recognized all of the kids who were coming in to get their book. These kids were readers to begin with, and they were readers after they were done with Harry. Many of them would come back and request more books like Rowling's, but such things aren't in short supply. They were happy to be handed The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, a book from The Lord of the Rings series, The Golden Compass, etc. Some even just enjoyed the concept of a series or fantastic literature, so we could turn them on to Laura Ingalls Wilder's books or Roald Dahl's writing.

Based on my professional experiences, I'm extremely wary of people making arguments that are at one extreme (The Boy Who Lived will be the very end of literacy!) or the other (These books are our last hope to interest our children in reading!). They are very popular, well-written books that appeal to many children (and adults) with varying degrees of interest in reading. In the long run, they're probably not going to irrevocably alter the reading habits of too many people. The kids who read will read, the kids who won't won't, and the hype will die down. There really isn't a permanent hegemony to speak of.

But it's not over Nick, there are still 2 more movies to go.

I don't think anecdotal evidence from a library means much when the latest book sold 8 million copies in the first 24 hours in the US and 72 million worldwide. It's obvious that the overwhelming majority of people reading Harry Potter books are buying them and not waiting for the library copy to be available.

Well, yes, that's true, but it does miss my point - LD was wondering about the impact that these books are having on children's reading habits. I was using my anecdotal evidence to demonstrate that, really, it's probably not going to irrevocably alter the reading habits of many children (or adults, for that matter). Some people will read these books and never pick up another book again, and some will go through the series as part of their regular reading habits. I don't see it changing much of anything about the way people read, generally speaking.

Zooey, I recognize what you're saying, but this wasn't what I was trying to argue. Granted, I'm sure many of the kids who are buying these books were already the type who loved to read.

But, the hype and the peer pressure undoubtedly interested some kids who otherwise wouldn't have cared in reading, and I think of that as a social plus. I don't think that kids will stop reading wholesale now that Harry Potter is over, I just don't think you'll see the excitement, the lines, and the media coverage over "Ramona Quimby, Age 9". I do think that's unfortunate. It's a good thing to see reading presented as an exciting and worthwhile pasttime, as opposed to its usual role, as a means of identifying the nerdy girl who'll get a makeover before going to prom with the captain of the football team in some teen sex comedy.

Edit: Your response to Devin was a little more accurate in its response to what I initially said. I still think that whatever gains you can make on the fringes are worthwhile.

Well, yeah, again, anecdotally based on what is probably the smallest demographic of Potter readers, the ones who get it at the library. The fact that the kids section of the bookstore is now stuffed with multi-part fantasy epics is a testament that Potter is having SOME effect on reading habits. The book companies aren't churning out these low-rent series without seeing a profit. And unlike Potter, I don't think many adults are reading The Ranger's Apprentice books or whatever.

I think that's a really interesting way to look at it, LD, and you're probably correct. We won't see the same hype for other books and I agree that it's really unfortunate. It would be nice if we lived in a culture that outwardly, passionately supported reading as much as it does other forms of culture and entertainment. But we don't. Capitalism is awesome, huh?

Anecdotes are what I've got. With the way books are used and they way they change hands, I don't think that stats from publishers give us an accurate picture of what goes on with any given title (though, of course, I agree - the numbers are quite compelling for the Potter series, but they're not the whole picture).

Anyway, kids have been reading fantasy forever. It has always been a staple of the children's section in bookstores and libraries. I think that publishers are making a press now, but, again, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in the long run.

In addition to hearing about Muggles and all those silly words for the hype surrounding movie's SIX and SEVEN (plus the eventual dvd releases), we'll still have the inevitable false British tabloids proclaiming "Rowling to pen 8th Potter Book!" rumours in years to come (much like the pesky Lucas making Episode 7! bullshit that crops up all the time).

Regardless, I watched Goblet of Fire again last night and I swear to God it's the best film of the series rather than 3 or 5.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100260/

I saw something on the news last week about the supposed effect Potter would have on literacy. They showed stats they indicated what Zooey says is going on nationwide. The number of children in jr high and high school who read recreationally hadn't changed a single percentage since 1997.
Now if I could just find the actual stats I could totally wow you with my facts.

Yeah, I don't know whether it will ultimately have long-term effects on youth literacy or not, but as someone who hasn't read the books but has access to the deal through my oldest daughter's fandom, I liked watching the way the book's publication dented the popular consciousness this week. Waiting in line at a bookstore and seeing the first people in line holding the book aloft like a cherished object was pretty great. I kinda doubt I'll ever see that again in connection with a book.

It took me acquiring six Lord of the Rings DVDs that I'll probably never watch again to realize that I don't really like fantasy, but I love the way the books transcend the genre. We hung out at Pitt yesterday afternoon, and the ubiquity of the book was surprising, even given the number of copies that I knew had sold. Seen reading the book (and I wasn't even looking for it): the cashier at the gift shop of the flower show we went to see, a girl sitting on the sidewalk outside the ice cream shop, and three kids laying in the grass. In an era where even the most popular of popular culture is niche-marketed, here's one thing that manages to transcend most (not all) culture lines. It's a pretty cool thing to see.

I think this might be what you were looking for, Bob:

Read the whole article here (the bugmenot.com username/password I used is lolreg).

Tangent comment: Reading every day for fun? These kids need other hobbies.

Just lost a massive post. Fuckknockers. The essence of it was - this Potter phenomenon is utterly unique, and wonderful, and magical. Think about how incredible it is that 6, 16, 36 and 66 year-olds will queue, at midnight, for a book. It is just mindblowing, and I for one am really sad to see it end. I don't think we'll ever see the like again.

And Nick, you've heard this a million times before, I have friends who refuse to read the books (and become increasingly resentful and 'I'm-not-in-the-club-so-I'll-rail-against-it' as each release comes and goes) but not reading the books in favour of watching the movies is equivalent to turning down a delicious burger with all the trimmings in favour of licking a picture of one.

I dunno. The NYT article uses the NAEP numbers to compare responses from fourth and eighth graders. Seventh and eighth grade, all other things being equal, are hard and weird years for kids. They're sorting through beginning teen years and early puberty, trying on new identities and essentially doing everything they can not to stick out. Discipline problems in schools are almost always more prevalent with kids around that age. I'm not at all surprised to hear that eighth graders either aren't reading or aren't willing to cop to reading. I'd be interested to see whether reading habits established early on in elementary school return in high school or post-high school.

Just remember that the Pope thinks Harry Potter is evil. Now, you don't want to side with the Pope, do you?

I read every day for fun.

I've been reading every day for fun since I was about 4 or 5. My mom thinks I'm cool, though.

No offense intended. I read every day for fun as well (the Metro is a beautiful thing. This summer's theme: great books I've never read). I would just hope that these kids aren't doing this reading to the exclusion of other things. I know I wasn't too much into moderation as a kid.

I wasn't offended at all. I wasn't into moderation as a child, either. I wouldn't have it any other way, though, despite my crushing social awkwardness as a teenager. It didn't matter. F. Scott Fitzgerald understood me.

"She's closing up the library!!!"

Yeah, that used to be my custom user text. Sometimes it's just more mature to turn around an embrace a stereotype, rather than trying to run from it.

Right with you, MissZooey. I was brought up in a house filled with books (many of them now in my possession) - a huge gamut of fiction, non-fiction, and a complete set of encyclopedias that I used to sit and read. I think I pretty much educated myself, because I sure as hell learned more by reading on my own than I did in public school.

I've read most of the Potter books - including this last one - just out of curiosity, and I doubt I'd read any of them again. She's just not my favorite writer (That would be Jack Vance). However, I have to say I was grinning all day long after seeing a two-block-long queue of people camped out in sleeping bags on Västerlånggatan on Stockholm's old town - to buy a book at Sciencefiction Bokhandeln.

It reminds me of the time around the premiere of The Return of the King: there was that terrific poster campaign, and regardless of how I thought the film turned out or anything like that, just the fact that there were giant, wordless posters of Frodo and Sam all over every major city in the world just... I don't know, made me feel a little less cynical and despondent about the state of the human race.

I'll admit I came into the whole Harry Potter craze at the end. I recieved all the books recently as a gift and several months ago, the girlfriend made me see the movies.

Now I don't see them as high literature, but long easy reading. I've been plowing through the books as of late (just hit Order of the Phoenix), and having a blast with them. There is maturation in the writing, so I might be taking back what I said about high literature later.

Still anything that causes a kid to read a book and actually have an active imagination can't be all that bad can it? I mean I wouldn't of stood in a line for it, but I'm enjoying it (and yes I'm actually reading for fun for the first time in a little bit (not counting text books)).

I'm curious Nick, are you gonna let your kid read them?

I'm going to read them when the hype is over, probably after the fifth movie is out of theatres.

I've seen all the movies and I don't think they're great. I read the first book and gave the rest a pass since I was fourteen and more interested in actual literature than what I thought was on par with Lloyd Alexander.

I am often down on the HP commercialization and its brand aspects. My friends who stood in line for three hours to buy the last book don't know what to do with me when I try and explain that I'm not against Rowling or the books in content or concept, but simply against what I think of as a massive attempt to brand snare kids and their parents with the friendly veil of "it encourages reading". I usually get the "but you haven't read the books!" argument or the "it DOES make kids read and that's irrefutable and incontrovertible fact!" argument.

A lot of adults I know who are huge HP fans are pretty misguided in their rampant fanboyism. Other than its fans and their manic, obsessive behavior, I don't think there's anything harmful about HP. I don't think there's anything profound, either. Rowling just happened to hit a nerve and launch a franchise with mass appeal, but a repetitive and relatively safe franchise anyhow.

I borrowed the first book from a co-worker about a week after the 7th book was released and am now about halfway into the 5th, watching the movies in conjunction with finishing the books and I gotta say I'm enraptured. I'm hoping to finish reading OotP before the movie is out of theaters for obvious reasons. And for some reason i'm kind of glad I waited until it was all over before I started, I'm just not sure why.

I'm glad it's over. Hopefully all of those youngsters who were so into Harry Potter will now turn to the much finer series by George R.R. Martin, "A Song of Ice and Fire." It's appropriate for all ages! I swear!

This is probably the wrong time and place to write this, but I thought the Song of Ice and Fire series was horrible.

I know a lot of kids who've gotten into Gormenghast and other types of alt-Fantasy stuff because of Harry Potter (largely through excessive nudging by myself), but a lot of the kids I know who liked Harry Potter can't stand traditional fantasy books.

You're just trying to induce me into nemesis mode at this point, aren't you?

The majority of people for whom this is true in my experience are early-twentysomething females.

You know, regarding Harry Potter apparently not really influencing the nation's children's reading behavior, I'm kinda torn. While such an all-encompassing literary (!) pop culture phenomenon is unlikely to repeat itself in my lifetime, I wish it had made a bit of a difference. I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone reading isn't a very popular passtime nowadays. A lot of people on message boards bemoan the fact that Hollywood has to adapt everything into movies (be it regular ass- or comic book), as if the stories contained within aren't "legitimised" until they're high-profile movies or HBO series. None of my friends are avid readers, and sometimes I just get all giddy over a book and have no one to share it with who's not just lines of text on a screen. A movie kinda sorta helps if you want to share the giddy.

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that week where my friends are going "Sorry, I can't do anything, I'm going to be waiting outside for/reading the new Harry Potter book" Fuck that, I'm trying to get people together to watch Showdown in Little Tokyo.

Harry Potter is the only fantasy series I've read in my entire life. Fantasy and sci-fi aren't exactly my favorite genres, so my love for this series has always surprised me a bit. I can understand Potter fans trying to find similar series to read, but I've never had any interest in finding anything else.

I wonder what the greater evil is?

Ironic Appreciation of bad movies.

Or non-ironic appreciation of average books?

The holocaust.

I think the real question is what's the greater evil:

A "Must have it now so I can be among the first to read it" mentality.

Or appreciating undeniably entertaining movies that have been swept under the rug by society?

What demon dimension do you reside in where Showdown in Little Tokyo resides under a rug?

I live in this demon dimension, where Brandon Lee never became more famous than "hey, did you know this dude died while making the Crow?"

Still, you have the biggest dick I've ever seen.

Showdown in Little Tokyo really doesn't seem to be the sort of film you'd be able to appreciate without shouting at the videoscreen and trying to, shudder, MST3K it.

I am ecstatic its over. I read the first two books, thought they were awful and am continually surprised that adults seem to love them more than children.

Most of the "being among the first to read it mentality" probably has a lot more to do with avoiding spoilers than some kind of lame badge of pride. Trying to get through these things without being tipped off as to who killed who and who's doing what has been a pain in the ass.

I am a librarian as well, and have worked in a bunch of libraries the past few years while this Potter thing has been going on. From my experience, purely annecdotale, the books are getting kids curious about reading more but they aren't finding anything they really like as much. We used to get zillions of kids requesting books "Like Harry Potter" but everything we would recommend didn't seem to do it for them.
Phillip Pullmans stuff seems to be be what they take to most. Oddly, Lord of the Rings: not so much.

I'm glad its over only in the sense that it would totally suck if Potter just got long, drawn out and boring like fucking STAR WARS or similar nonsense.

Also, that the ending was so satisfying. The last two books of the series are seriously fucking great.

The movies I can take or leave. I found the first three fairly damn dull.

It's not an ironic appreciation, I just enjoy it's unintentional hilarity. It's a comedy to me, a fun movie, intent has little to do with it.

A fucking tragedy if there ever was one.