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Dream Deceivers: James Vance Vs. Judas Priest

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Does anyone remember this PBS doc from 1992? Two teens shoot themselves with shotguns and their parents sue Judas Priest. It's clumsy in parts but utterly compelling, and after thinking about it off an on for 15 years, I've finally found it online. I recommend watching it and look forward to hearing some thoughts from our learned Chewers on this bit of pop culture that, I suspect, many of you are too young to remember.

Dream Deceivers
post #2 of 16
Never seen this, but I've been looking for it for a while. Thanks!
post #3 of 16
I didn't know such a thing existed. I always wondered why nobody made a documentary about this. Now I know.
post #4 of 16
Growing up in the 80s there was always this moral panic about metal, but I never knew the particulars of this story until recently. It's fascinating but sad. The parents are clearly in denial about their kids' troubled lives if they think that out of millions of Judas Priest listeners, two shooting themselves is any kind of correlation. To paraphrase Ozzy Osbourne, if they made songs to make their fans kill themselves, their next album would sell fewer copies, wouldn't it?
post #5 of 16
Excellent. Thank you Phil.

I was just reading about this doc in a recent issue of REVOLVER MAGAZINE, there was an article regarding all the "metal made me do it" murders and suicides in the last 25 years. I had never heard of Dream Deceivers but being a Judas Priest fan and a lifelong interest in Satanism/Christian Scare Tactics/Metal Disasters I eagerly went searching for this DVD and of course I don't think it exists. I look forward to watching this soon.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
I just finished watching it. None too subtle, but the intimate access and candor that's afforded the crew is what's remarkable here. Courtroom access, uncomfortably candid moments with the families, with the band, and damn, I can't recall seeing a funeral shot so intimately in a doc. If you make it past the 8 minute mark, you won't turn it off.

Ugh, Raymond's mom saying "the shooting isn't spoken of here...and there's no need to." Chilling.
post #7 of 16
I remember watching this doc back in the early 90s. I love how people feel the NEED to blame rather than take responsibility. As misguided as the parents are/were, you can't help but sympathize.

On a side note, the casting directors of 'Preacher' have found their Arseface in James Vance.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth

On a side note, the casting directors of 'Preacher' have found their Arseface in James Vance.
He died before the documentary was finished.
post #9 of 16
Let me clarify what I meant - For inspiration on how to do the face, they have found their Arseface.
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Well, the comic version of Arseface was a straight lift.



post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
This week I attended a screening of the films of Jeff Krulik, who made the famous Heavy Metal Parking Lot short in 1986. The tape was legendary in the early 90s (thanks partially to Film Threat), but it absolutely does not hold up as a creative work of any kind. Krulik gets his hands on some equipment and just lets whatever wanders in front of his lens have a minute or so in the poorly recorded spotlight. Other films followed, and Krulik seems to have a pattern of "come up with a really interesting idea for a short doc, and then once you roll tape, mistakenly assume the film makes itself." (Krulik would later sell the format to now-defunct cable channel Trio, who really capitalized on the idea with some great segements.)


Heavy Metal Parking Lot
is not without its charms - it's funny when you can hear it, and it's too short to be really offensively bad. But while watching it, I kept thinking what a great prologue it would have made for Dream Deceivers. And it gave me the itch to bump this thread to encourage more people to check out the doc, linked in the first post. Watch and discuss.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Here's another bump. I will force feed thought provoking films to you.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
Annual bump! For new people and/or procrastinators. Old link is dead; watch it here.
post #14 of 16
I'm reading an article about the trial, and I came across an interesting piece of information. Vance shotgunned himself on December 23, 1985 (Merry Christmas Mom and Dad!), then finished the job three years later via pills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
At the time of his death, Vance left a 1-year-old daughter.
So some girl slept with him post-Arsefacing. Maybe it's because I'm very stoned right now, but my brain is having trouble with this.
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee View Post
So some girl slept with him post-Arsefacing. Maybe it's because I'm very stoned right now, but my brain is having trouble with this.
You wouldn't be so confused if you knew what she looked like:



Thanks for the link, Phil. I've downloaded the file to my computer and will give it a watch sometime later today.
post #16 of 16
I remember seeing this on TV in NZ way back in the day and found it compelling. Of course, I grew up a HUGE metalhead (though never a big JP fan) . . . and this was actually very fundamental in my parent's finally letting up and realising that even if the idea of subliminal messages WAS legit, their son would have to be a complete fucking moron for them to have any kind of effect on him.

This is the one where it had footage of the band in court saying they had found other examples in their own music, like "Look, ma! My chair's broken!" and so forth? And I think it even had refrences to Prince actually putting messages in his music, too? It's been a fair while.
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