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'Don't ever get smart-mouth with a cop again...'

post #1 of 30
9/13/07 at 1:56am
Thread Starter 
...I SHOW YOU WHAT A COP DOES.

Quote:
Missouri: Police Threaten, Detain Motorist for Parking After Hours
A St. George, Missouri police officer is caught on tape threatening to invent charges to arrest a motorist for parking after hours.

Brett Darrow videoA motorist who refused to discuss his personal business with a St. George, Missouri police officer was threatened with arrest last Friday. Brett Darrow, 20, no stranger to unconventional encounters with police, caught a St. George Police Sergeant James Kuehnlein stating that he had the power to invent charges that would put Darrow behind bars. Update: Sergeant Kuehnlein was placed on unpaid leave Monday pending an investigation.

"Try and talk back... to me again," yelled Sergeant Kuehnlein. "I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something. You want to come up with something? I come up with nine things."

The incident began at around 2am. Darrow was to meet a friend who was working late and was going to pick him up. Darrow headed toward a 24-hour commuter parking lot in an unincorporated part of Saint Louis County in his 1997 Nissan Maxima. He put on his turn signal and entered the lot which, aside from Kuehnlein's cruiser, was essentially vacant. After stopping the car, the police officer approached and began questioning Darrow about what he was doing. When Darrow declined to discuss his personal business, the police sergeant exploded. Although the video clearly shows Darrow driving properly and using his turn signal, the police officer insisted that Darrow had broken the law.

"Oh, while you were coming towards me you were swerving back and forth within the roadway," Sergeant Kuehnlein said. "I might give you a ticket for that. You want me to come up with some more? When you turned in, you failed to use your turn signal, your right turn signal."

Without the video, Darrow tells TheNewspaper that he would have stood no chance disproving the officer's word in court. Twenty-eight percent of the St. George municipal budget comes from traffic citations. Darrow wonders how many of the tickets were legitimate.

"Looking into this guys eyes, he was crazy," Darrow said. "I was really scared he was going to assault me. I just wonder how many other people have been arrested on these charges."

After ordering Darrow against the car and searching him, Sergeant Kuehnlein released the motorist.
I question the kid's choice of having a camera in his car, and he does come off as a brat, but there's no excuse for a police officer to act this way. His actions give off the stereotypical pushed-around-as-a-kid-who-grows-up-wanting-to-be-an-authority-figure. For payback.

Also, he sounds like what FAT-WERBAL sounds like in my head.
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post #2 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:02am
Video!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...er.dashcam.cnn
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post #3 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:36am
How the hell did that guy make it to Sergeant?

This douchebag just made it alot tougher for other cops out there.
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post #4 of 30
9/13/07 at 8:42am
This is business as usual. Now a video of a cop who isn't aware that he is being taped doing his job correctly would really be something.
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post #5 of 30
9/13/07 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
This is business as usual. Now a video of a cop who isn't aware that he is being taped doing his job correctly would really be something.
Especially if the person who is doing said taping is not a smart ass kid out looking for the most retarded cop on the force to fuck with.
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post #6 of 30
9/13/07 at 10:19am
Can someone explain how this kid is a smartass? He declined to discuss his personal business with a cop. That's not smartass, that's normal.
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post #7 of 30
9/13/07 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian
Can someone explain how this kid is a smartass? He declined to discuss his personal business with a cop. That's not smartass, that's normal.
I don't know about that, it comes off like you have something to hide. A simple "I'm here to pick up a friend" would have done.

But yes, the cop was a jackass.
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post #8 of 30
9/13/07 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian
Can someone explain how this kid is a smartass? He declined to discuss his personal business with a cop. That's not smartass, that's normal.
He had his camera on before he pulled into the lot. A lot that had only one other car in it. A cop car. Then when questioned about what he was doing, when a simple "meeting a friend" would suffice he pulls the ever so cop inciting "none of your business." Yeah cops usually respond well to that answer. Then he refuses to show ID, at 2 a.m. Another thing cops absolutely love.

Don't get me wrong, the cop is a douche, plain and simple. But if you honestly think that kid went to that lot to pick up a cell phone he left at his buddies house then I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to offload if you're interested.
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post #9 of 30
9/13/07 at 10:51am
Cops, like fundamentalists, feel threatened by normal, rational behaviour that doesn't bow to them.
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post #10 of 30
9/13/07 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian
Cops, like fundamentalists, feel threatened by normal, rational behaviour that doesn't bow to them.
Did I ever say the cop wasn't a douche? I recall saying he was a douche. Also with police beating people for far, less it's mildly retarded to not show ID and to tell him it's none of his business why he's there. But hey, all cops=bad, all kids=normal, rational.
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post #11 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
Did I ever say the cop wasn't a douche? I recall saying he was a douche. Also with police beating people for far, less it's mildly retarded to not show ID and to tell him it's none of his business why he's there. But hey, all cops=bad, all kids=normal, rational.
The Smart Ass kid however, understands his rights as a U.S. Citizen. Guess what? You don't have to tell a cop a single thing, especially when you didn't do anything wrong. If asked for ID, present it, but you can ignore any question an officer asks you. The Fifth amendment says so. Will it probably get you harrassed and/or tossed in jail? More than likely, but it is most certainly your right, and no charges will stick for it.

And all he did to enrage the cop was ask what the problem was when asked for ID while (allegedly) getting it out of his wallet to comply with the request. That's a very valid question, especially for someone who was already shafted by law enforcement before.

My favorite thing is that the officer's camera recording has "gone missing". One of the few good guys I've met on a cities police force mentioned to me just how often that occurs, and that it always seemed to happen when the officer knew he screwed up ahead of time.
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post #12 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
The Smart Ass kid however, understands his rights as a U.S. Citizen. Guess what? You don't have to tell a cop a single thing, especially when you didn't do anything wrong. If asked for ID, present it, but you can ignore any question an officer asks you. The Fifth amendment says so. Will it probably get you harrassed and/or tossed in jail? More than likely, but it is most certainly your right, and no charges will stick for it.

And all he did to enrage the cop was ask what the problem was when asked for ID while (allegedly) getting it out of his wallet to comply with the request. That's a very valid question, especially for someone who was already shafted by law enforcement before.

My favorite thing is that the officer's camera recording has "gone missing". One of the few good guys I've met on a cities police force mentioned to me just how often that occurs, and that it always seemed to happen when the officer knew he screwed up ahead of time.
As I said before, this cop=douche. I'm not defending this cop. I do however realize that the guy is most likely full of shit and was there to fuck with the cop. What's wrong with me stating that?
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post #13 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:25am
Was he there to get the cop to harass him because he had camera equipment? Maybe. As he pulled into the parking lot quite legally, it didn't look he was trying to draw him out, although maybe he had reports from friends on getting harassed there before.

Even if he was just screwing with the cop, I'd consider it a public service. The right of "Probable Cause" is something law enforcement deems no longer necessary, and people are far too quick to relinquish as of late.
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post #14 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Was he there to get the cop to harass him because he had camera equipment? Maybe. As he pulled into the parking lot quite legally, it didn't look he was trying to draw him out, although maybe he had reports from friends on getting harassed there before.

Even if he was just screwing with the cop, I'd consider it a public service. The right of "Probable Cause" is something law enforcement deems no longer necessary, and people are far too quick to relinquish as of late.
And I agree with you totally about those issues. I just feel that the "meet my buddy to get my cell phone at 2 am" story rings hollow and him happening to have his camera on before he even turns into the lot makes it all seem like a set up. Which honestly is his right so long as he doesn't break any laws. I just think it makes him a bit of a smart ass for doing so.
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post #15 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:47am
The story says the kid is "no stranger to unconventional encounters with police" so I wonder what else he's done. Sounds like it's more of a pattern than a single incident.
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post #16 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
And I agree with you totally about those issues. I just feel that the "meet my buddy to get my cell phone at 2 am" story rings hollow and him happening to have his camera on before he even turns into the lot makes it all seem like a set up. Which honestly is his right so long as he doesn't break any laws. I just think it makes him a bit of a smart ass for doing so.
How is documenting a cop breaking the law 'setting him up?' Is the urge for a cop to ignore your rights so tempting that it's unfair to present an opportunity?
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post #17 of 30
9/13/07 at 11:55am
Apparently, the kid got a ticket a few years ago, which he believed he didn't deserve. When he argued it in court, the judge, like always, sided with the cop. After that, the kid said that he installed the equipment just in case it ever happened again.

I have family and friends who are/were cops in small towns and while all I know are "good" cops, I've heard too many horror stories.
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post #18 of 30
9/13/07 at 12:08pm
The way he has his cam setup, seems to me like this kid is a street racer.

So, he may have been getting ready for a drag race or working the scenes at "2am" and ended up running into a pissed off cop.
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post #19 of 30
9/13/07 at 12:40pm
You can't entrap a cop into threatening you with fabricated charges, even for something as audacious as pulling a car into a public parking lot. Even if the kid was a bit of a smart ass to the cop (I can't get the video to work, but the transcript doesn't particularly read that way), it doesn't matter a bit. You have the right to be the most wise-ass, uncooperative dick in the world to the cops if you want. Unless they have probable cause to search, arrest or otherwise detain you, you don't have to be nice, or answer their questions or anything. Constitutional provisions regarding the investigative powers of law enforcement are generally murky, but this kind of behavior is one of the only things that it absolutely, clearly proscribes.
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post #20 of 30
9/13/07 at 1:29pm
And now here is evidence the kids does this professionally, as here's him screwing with sobriety check point officers:

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/...aught-on-tape/

And I'll say it again: I applaud this kid's efforts.
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post #21 of 30
9/13/07 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
The Smart Ass kid however, understands his rights as a U.S. Citizen. Guess what? You don't have to tell a cop a single thing, especially when you didn't do anything wrong. If asked for ID, present it, but you can ignore any question an officer asks you. The Fifth amendment says so.
Actually, no, it doesn't.
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post #22 of 30
9/13/07 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMushnik
Actually, no, it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Thanks to 200+ years of interpertations Yes, it does.

Edit: And No, I'm not confusing this with miranda rights.
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post #23 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:00pm
This kid is a national hero. The best part:

Quote:
Brett: I saw it right here. I saw smoke coming off as he tired to take off. It’s a pretty easy way I guess for you guys to get inside a vehicle on a DWI checkpoint and that’s where I have a problem.
Supervisor: Well, DWI checkpoints are authorized.
Brett: I understand they are authorized, but drug checkpoints aren’t and you know when I see a K9 unit over here–
Supervisor: That’s not the point.
The kid knows his shit.
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post #24 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Thanks to 200+ years of interpertations Yes, it does.

Edit: And No, I'm not confusing this with miranda rights.
Don't the protections given by the fifth ammendment relate more to trials and the admissibility in court of statements and confessions obtained by police?

Edit: I'm not a lawyer, so this is an actual question.
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post #25 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:20pm
Overlord or JVC should be able to spiel off the official legal stance, but from my understanding, as the police act as agents of the court, they are included as such.

Miranda Warnings came out of an offshoot of the fifth being applied in the case of Miranda v. Arizona, whose later supreme court ruling came to apply that police interrogations are required to warn people about their rights. It's interesting with regards to detaining someone, as without officially charging them, there becomes a gray area where the police can ask questions without informing you of your rights. Your right to remain silent, however, remains in constant effect.

Edit: That right doesn't apply to generic questions, such as name, date of birth, etc, hence why you should present ID when asked. What you are out doing however, is none of the government's business.
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post #26 of 30
9/13/07 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Overlord or JVC should be able to spiel off the official legal stance, but from my understanding, as the police act as agents of the court, they are included as such.

Miranda Warnings came out of an offshoot of the fifth being applied in the case of Miranda v. Arizona, whose later supreme court ruling came to apply that police interrogations are required to warn people about their rights. It's interesting with regards to detaining someone, as without officially charging them, there becomes a gray area where the police can ask questions without informing you of your rights. Your right to remain silent, however, remains in constant effect.
Interesting. I didn't know it applied in that way. Well, my mistake; thank's for clearing that up.
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post #27 of 30
9/26/07 at 11:02pm
Update. Apparently this kid is now getting stalked and threatened by local police, because they don't like the national spotlight on their shitty policework. Stay classy St. Louis.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1988.asp
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post #28 of 30
9/27/07 at 12:37am
I would gladly trade in all the police in America for a squad of malfunctioning ED-209 units. At lest the ED-209 can use the excuse that it's a glitchy computer for it being a total fuckup.
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post #29 of 30
9/27/07 at 3:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow Puncher
I would gladly trade in all the police in America for a squad of malfunctioning ED-209 units. At lest the ED-209 can use the excuse that it's a glitchy computer for it being a total fuckup.
"You run down the stairs! Cause ED-209's don't use stairs. Stairs are like kryptonite to an ED-209!" ED-209's vs. RoboCops, Chris Rock II
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post #30 of 30
9/30/07 at 4:30pm
I smell a made-for-tv-movie about this kid if this story keeps going.
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