Watchmen - Questions about the Black Freighter

It's also a commentary on a world with real superheroes. As a consequence, they don't appear in comic books, the realm of fantasy. People are weary of costumed adventurers, and instead turn to pirate comics as a diversion from the real world.

In my opinion, the black freighter is the weakest part of Watchmen, and I'm glad Snyder is reserving it for the DVD.

Graynadian is right, when I first read Watchmen I didn't understand the pirate comic in the midst of this story. Then a friend of mine explained to me what it was and then it made some sense.

Wait, so the whole point is that, since there are superheroes, people read pirate comics? That's it?

Well, it's also metacommentary. You kind of get the sense that it's ridiculous that, in the world of Watchmen, the entire comics industry is limiting itself to the relatively narrow genre of pirate comics. Which, of course, is a dig at the comics industry in the real world.

Plus, it gave Moore something to cut away to to do his late 80s juxtapositional scene transition gimmick.

The pirate is building a raft out of the bodies of other pirates. This symbolizes Moore, who feels he is standing on the shoulders of giants to attain what he's trying to get at. Another way to look at it is that while the pirate tries to go home with the best intentions he ultimately fucks shit up so bad he can never go back to being the good man he once thought he was. It's not only about Ozymandias, but comics in general having to become "gritty-n-dark" in order to boost sales and, according to Moore, forever losing the innocence of the Gold and Silver Ages.

Considering that Watchmen pretty much started the whole "gritty-n-dark" trend in mainstream comics, I'm not sure that's what Moore had in mind.

I thought Frank Miller and "Return of the Dark Knight" did that.

They weren't released very far apart, in any case.

Miracleman may disagree

Fuck that for not being collected/finished, btw.

Yeah, it predated Watchmen by a few months. Regardless, it wasn't the industry-wide trend when Moore wrote it.

Yep, I think it was a little too early for it to be taken as commentary on the darkening of comics generally.

Spoilers ahead, of course.

I've gotta be honest, Tales of the Black Freighter never really resonated with me in relation to the main story. IIRC (it has been awhile) the story in Black Freighter is about a guy driven to get home again, to recapture innocence, and his drive is so strong that it blinds him; as a result he ends up doing terrible things in his quest that actually make it impossible for him to regain either home or innocence. Ozymandias does terrible things in an attempt to reach some greater good, too, but does them knowingly and willingly. He isn't really like the Black Freighter's protagonist at all in that respect. Nor is Rorschach, who also knowingly does dark things in pursuit of justice (as he sees it). Maybe the protagonist in Black Freighter (wish I knew his name) is supposed to be a stand-in for all the "superheroes" of the Watchmen world - they are trying to protect innocence and do good and instead have only dirtied themselves and made their world a more dangerous place. But his story is so personal and the individual heroes' motivations are all so different, so I don't think that works, either.

But yeah, it's a world where all the comics are about pirates. OK.

I think you guys are clutching at straws with this whole "in a world with no superheroes, they read about pirates!" thing. If that is a thematic element of the Black Freighter material, it is a minor one. The Gayest, you pretty much nailed it with your first post. The idea of "the greater good" or losing yourself in search of something you thought was true and noble - those are HUGE themes in the Watchmen universe.

we lost what comics were all about when we stopped fapping to emma frost

Stopped? Speak for yourself.

His motivation to get home is driven more by his concern for his family--if I recall, he hears the pirates of the Black Freighter talking about raiding his town. He's trying to get back to warn them and save them.

What does the Black Freighter character not do willingly or knowingly? He doesn't realize how horrifying his appearance has become, sure, but his choices--to defile corpses, to kill the moneylender and his wife to get home--are just that--a choice.

I'd argue with the fact that Rorschach sees himself as doing 'dark' things. In his mind, his actions are sane and justified. Which, to me, explains why he's unable to accept Veidt's motivation at the end. Veidt and Rorschach's evils differ in scale and self-awareness. But as we've previously seen with Rorschach, he has little sense of scale when it comes to crime. So when Rorschach sees his mirror in Veidt, it cracks him, and he literally is reduced to begging for death.

Yeah I agree that the Black Freighter is about the road to hell being paved with good intentions... or the obvious necessity of losing who you are when you put on a costume, no matter what your intentions.

While the fact that in a world full of superheroes kids read pirate comics is interesting, that isn't the point of the tale. That point could have been made with one or two frames where we catch a glimpse of the cover of a comic a kid is reading.

I haven't read the Watchmen in a few years but that's what I took from the Black Freighter, but thought it took a ton of time and energy to spell out a relatively simple concept.

Considering the amount of praise Moore heaped upon Miller in the foreword for The Dark Knight Returns TPB, I don't think Tales Of The Black Freighter is any kind of negative comment on the new grittier style of comics.

I mostly got it as a commentary on on the possible state of comics in a world with superheroes and an attempt to build the atmosphere of the world which is something Moore always does. I think the similarities to Veidt's story mostly came organically from Moore's state of mind as he was writing it.

It's not clutching at straws when it's stated openly in the comic. In both Hollis Mason's book and the text piece about the Black Freighter comics, it's stated that interest in comics starring superheroes died out in the late 40s, and that the industry is dominated by pirate comics. It's not necessarily thematic, but neither is the fact that Kissinger is the VP, that people eat Indian fast food and that they fly airships. It's another example of Moore's worldbuilding.

I'd forgotten that he is not just trying to survive and get home but also to save his family, that helps. But I still say it is a clumsy analogy at least as to Veidt: he doesn't knowingly kill the moneylender and his wife, does he? He sees their shapes in the dark and assumes that they are bad guys. It is a sad, cautionary tale, vs. Veidt who knows EXACTLY what he is doing and goes about it in a very cold and calculating style. But given that the comics protagonist is acting out to save his family, I'd say it is more of a lock that he is supposed to stand in for all of the "heroes" in the Watchmen world (and thus the author's take on what superheroes in the "real world" would actually amount to) - trying to do the right thing but generally making a tragic mess of it all.

Read it again.

http://www.crinklink.com/marooned/marooned_display.html

Pages 15-17 would be the relevant section.

Daredevil may disagree:


"The modern definition of Daredevil began in 1979 with Frank Miller's entrance on the title. Miller's first contributions were as an artist, where he imbued a new dynamism and a drastically different visual style. The series' tone became that of noir with Hell's Kitchen itself playing a more prominent role.

With issue #168, Miller additionally became the series' writer, and the comic underwent a drastic metamorphosis. The most significant change was the introduction of Spider-Man villain Kingpin as Daredevil's new archnemesis. Until that point, Daredevil's enemies were primarily, though not exclusively, costumed villains. The Kingpin was a departure in that although he possessed extraordinary size, strength and fighting ability, his villainy came from his ruthless brilliance in running a criminal empire, rather than superpowers. The title still retained costumed antagonists — notably Bullseye and Elektra — but found its central theme to be one more grounded in reality: organized crime.

Miller also introduced ninjas into the Daredevil canon, bringing a greater focus on the martial arts aspect of Daredevil's fighting skills, and introducing the characters Stick and the Hand. This was a drastic change to a character once considered a swashbuckler. The focus of a ninja's control of the inner self served as a counterbalance to the emerging themes of anger and torment."

To me, The Black Freighter is a commentry about us, the comic book readers. Imagine you are a character in the Watchmen universe. There's the constant threat of nuclear war, but also wonders like Dr. Manhatten and airships. If you existed in this world, you would think that you would pay attention to world events and powerful figures like Veidt and Nixon. But no, instead you escape into a bloody, fictional pirate story. The way Moore sets up the narrative (you are reading a comic book in which a character reads a comic book) sets up a parallel between the comic's world and the real world; there's amazing things happening everyday (i.e. Dr. Manhatten's 'miracle') but instead of seeking it out you read a bloody super-hero comic book. I don't think Moore's trying to admonish comic book readers or anything, but just point out the irony of escaping into violent forms of entertainment when the world is already so fucked-up.

(I'm taking a course about framed narratives, so story frames have been on my mind lately).

The whole structure of WATCHMEN is summed up with the phrase 'As above, so below.' There's a study of symmetrical and matching imagery throughout the series, and the Black Freighter is one aspect of that - reflecting what's going on in the macro story as well as in the immediate pages around it. Moore uses the Freighter bits as commentary not just on superhero comics but also on the actions going on at the time, and it allows him to break up static scenes, give us depth of understanding of the world of Watchmen by having the news agent standing around chatting with all the characters who will die at the end. That's a big part of it as well, giving the world around the news agent some vitality so that the death at the end isn't just some abstract concept, but rather characters we've been following.