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Comics Are Bad

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Handling of teacher, comic issue riles parents

GUILFORD — The parents of a freshman student whose teacher resigned after he gave her a sexually explicit illustrated book said Wednesday their daughter has been the target of harassment from fellow students, and they want the school district to do more to clarify the issue with other parents.


The girl’s father, who asked that his family remain anonymous because it has already been the target of criticism, described the graphic novel that English teacher Nate Fisher gave the student as "borderline pornography."

The book, one of a series of comic book novels by Daniel Clowes, is called "Eightball #22." It includes references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower.

"It’s not even like a gray area," the father said. "It’s clearly over the line."

He said Fisher gave the student the book almost three weeks ago to make up for a summer reading assignment. The book is not part of the school’s regular curriculum.

Her parents brought their concerns about the book to the high school and school district’s administration, and Fisher resigned Tuesday, a week after being placed on administrative leave.

Fisher, who had been a teacher at the high school for one year, could not be reached for comment.

Superintendent of Schools Thomas Forcella said the book was "inappropriate" for freshman students. The girl recently turned 14.

Forcella said that the school district’s investigation is closed now that Fisher has resigned. But the girl’s father rejected that explanation, calling the school’s acceptance of Fisher’s resignation a "cop out."

"Now they don’t have to worry about it," he said. "They can close the investigation, they’re done with the matter and now they’re out of a sticky situation."

The student’s parents said they met with Forcella and other school officials on Monday and were told the district would send an e-mail to parents explaining that the girl was not at fault, which they had not received as of Wednesday afternoon. Forcella said the district is planning to e-mail a statement and post it on the school system’s main Web site.

"I’m extremely upset with the administration for not following through with their word of contacting the parents," the father said. "It looks like we got some teacher fired (over) a Harry Potter novel or Catcher in the Rye."

The girl’s mother said her daughter has been "crying every night" and asking not to go to school because students who liked the teacher are blaming her. The mother said that some students set up a group on Facebook, the social networking Web site, calling for Fisher to be reinstated and criticizing the student. The family called the police when, they said, a video was posted on the site with a picture of their daughter and a song with the lyrics "Don’t hesitate to exterminate." The Facebook page has since been removed.

"He’s the cool, favorite teacher of all the kids," the father said.

His wife said she became especially concerned when her daughter told her Fisher asked her "how the book made her feel," although the mother added that she has no idea "what his intention was."

"She was victimized by him to begin with and over and over again for 2½ weeks now," she said. "We just feel like if people understand what he had given her, then they would understand that it’s not our daughter’s fault."

"Eightball #22" features a number of intersecting stories told in comic book form. Charles Brownstein, executive director of the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund in New York City, said that Clowes is a well known graphic novelist. Clowes is also the author of the graphic novel "Ghost World," which was adapted into a feature film in 2001.

"The book was basically a profile of a town and its various oddball personalities and it was drawn in a wide variety of illustrative styles to create a psychological portrait of the goings on in this town," Brownstein said. "It certainly is not pornographic."

He added: "Frankly, I find the fact that somebody has left their job over this particular work deeply troubling."

Brownstein said he thinks the nature of graphic novels — which combine images and text — and the relative youth of the genre can lead to confusion.

"Somebody could do a superficial glance of the material and not put the contextual pieces together, thereby perhaps seeing a panel with violence, perhaps seeing a panel with nudity and taking the image out of context as something that it’s not," he said. "The more people are educated about the category, the less those sorts of misunderstandings occur."

Brownstein said his organization can provide assistance and representation for people involved in legal situations about comic books and graphic novels. The Guilford Police Department has said that it is investigating a complaint against Fisher.

Forcella said that, if Fisher applies for jobs in the future, the fact that he left Guilford High School at this point in the school year will be apparent on his application, and the circumstances of his resignation would come up if a school district called for references.

The girl’s parents differed on whether they think he should be able to teach again.

"The last thing I want to do is ruin somebody’s career who made a mistake, but he’s responsible for our daughter," the mother said.

Her husband disagreed.

"I personally don’t ever want him teaching again," he said. "There is nothing that he could say that would account for this. … That poor judgment is something you can’t take back."
post #2 of 43
That girl is gonna wake up one morning with "SNITCH" carved into her forehead.
post #3 of 43
Eightball #22 is the Ice Haven issue (the whole issue makes up what was eventually collected in book form as "Ice Haven").

Being very familiar with this comic, I can say with confidence that the dad is an overblown fuck who needs Richard Kiel's fist in his anus right now.

Should the teacher have given it to her to read? Probably not. Technically-speaking, the Library Journal recommendation for Eightball #22 is for 10th grade and up, and the girl is fourteen. Also, the teacher had only known this student for three weeks, which in my opinion doesn't seem to be enough time to gauge her maturity enough to feel comfortable handing her the comic. But putting him on administrative leave over this was the act of a fearful school administration that clearly and simply was worried about a lawsuit and didn't feel it worth the trouble to support him.

As far as the "snitch" aspect w/ the girl, I liked what Eddie Campbell (From Hell, Bacchus, etc) had to say about it on his blog:

Quote:
Don't kids know how to keep secrets any more? My father once confiscated a James Bond paperback I picked up at a garage sale when I was about ten. From that moment on I realized that my reading adventures needed to be done in secrecy. I started by reading all the James Bond novels, at first trying to psychoanalyse my father, figuring out exactly what it was about the book that worried him. If my dad's reading this, I'm sure he can't remember anything about it.
post #4 of 43
I never got around to reading Eightball #22, but I can see how parents would consider Clowes a bit much for a 14-year old. Not that I do, knowing what fourteen-year-olds were saying and doing I was that age.

The biggest problem for me is the Dad's reaction. A man lost is job over this incident and may have trouble being hired in the future. What more does he want? What more is there to investigate? And most importantly, what is he ultimately afraid of?

It's nice that he's trying to be involved in his daughter's education, but he's being overbearing and spiteful. The reality of the situation is that plain old fashioned peer pressure and youthful indiscretion will get his daughter exposed to more 'indecency' than any comic book would.

If he thought it was that bad, it would have been enough to ask that his daughter be excused from the assignment. Now he's made her a pariah in the eyes of the school, which will do far more to traumatize her.
post #5 of 43
I wonder if the daughter even had a problem with it.
post #6 of 43
At least it wasn't Needledick The Bugfucker.
post #7 of 43
Well, I was ready to be outraged, but it doesn't seem as clear-cut. The girl was 14, the teacher had only known her for a few weeks, and it does kind of sound like there might have been some creepiness involved. And the fact that the father name-checks "The Catcher in the Rye" certainly makes it sound like he's not some intolerant knuckle-dragger. While I obviously disagree that the daughter could somehow be damaged by this comic, the teacher really should have shown better judgement in handing it out, if only in guessing that the girl's parents might have had an issue with that stuff.

Eddie Campbell's statement is amusing, but that's just it: the teacher should have checked to make sure that the girl wasn't going to go screaming to her parents before he gave her that book. He clearly didn't know her well enough, and she obviously didn't feel any obligation to avoid getting him in trouble. I completely applaud the idea of teachers directing kids towards challenging material, but it only really works if you're going around the system to a degree. It shouldn't have been an assignment, it should have been an extracirricular recommendation.
post #8 of 43
I think this quote says it all:
Quote:
The last thing I want to do is ruin somebody’s career who made a mistake, but he’s responsible for our daughter," the mother said.
I would have thought parents were responsible for their offsprings.

I'm so sick of 14 year olds being treated as children. Physically, they are sexually mature and many of them also are mentally. Reading a comic with some sexual situations won't scar a 14 years old teen. It's not like he gave her a Girl comic.

Also, I believe parents who freak out about such things are living in 1992. Don't they know there is such a thing known as the internet? Teens (or even kids) don't need cool teachers to help them if they want porn.
post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I'm so sick of 14 year olds being treated as children. Physically, they are sexually mature and many of them also are mentally.
I couldn't disagree more. I'm 21 years old, and my little brother is 13. At that age you still are a child, there's really no two ways about it, and the argument that someone that age is equal mentally and physically is ridiculous. At the age this girl was, I would have been thrilled if a teacher handed me a comic to read instead of the other novels we were forced to read, but not every one is built to understand or handle those sorts of images. Mental or physical.
post #10 of 43
Does the girls' family have a Bible in the house? You know, the book that contains plenty of murder and incest?
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
I couldn't disagree more. I'm 21 years old, and my little brother is 13. At that age you still are a child, there's really no two ways about it, and the argument that someone that age is equal mentally and physically is ridiculous. At the age this girl was, I would have been thrilled if a teacher handed me a comic to read instead of the other novels we were forced to read, but not every one is built to understand or handle those sorts of images. Mental or physical.
I sure wasn't a child at thirteen. I wasn't an adult either. Neither were people my age then. It's why they are called teenagers. Maybe your brother is less mature. Also, keep in mind that each year makes a huge difference at that age.
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I sure wasn't a child at thirteen. I wasn't an adult either. Neither were people my age then. It's why they are called teenagers. Maybe your brother is less mature. Also, keep in mind that each year makes a huge difference at that age.
Well, first of all, teenager was a marketing term invented in the 1920's, so it doesn't really mean shit.

Second of all, you're technically a teenager from 13 to 19. That's a huge range in development that encompasses many different phases. So a 13 year old is still a kid. You're much closer to the age of 11 or 10 than you are to the age of 19. On a developmental scale, you're still dealing with things as a child of 11-12 would deal with them..

You might be pretending to be an adult. That's around the age a lot of kids start smoking, drinking, etc. So there is a lot of pretending going on. But you're still, at least from an emotional, psychological, and social perspective very much a child. I realize lots of societies mark the age of 13 as one being an adult, but that's simply because of a numbers fascination. "Oh way, you're in the teens now! You're an adult!"

Well, not really. 15 or 16 is when you start really transitioning into post-adolescent adulthood. At that point, you've sitll got a long way to go, but you're much closer to it than you are at 13.
post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I sure wasn't a child at thirteen. I wasn't an adult either. Neither were people my age then. It's why they are called teenagers. Maybe your brother is less mature. Also, keep in mind that each year makes a huge difference at that age.
According to your logic there is no difference between 13 and 30. Make up your mind.

Also, when you were thirteen were you paying bills? Supporting a family? Being a parent? And seeing as though you are strongly opposed to age discrimination, would you have sex with a 13 year old? You're apparently both adults.
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
According to your logic there is no difference between 13 and 30. Make up your mind.

Also, when you were thirteen were you paying bills? Supporting a family? Being a parent? And seeing as though you are strongly opposed to age discrimination, would you have sex with a 13 year old? You're apparently both adults.
No, according to my logic when you're 13 you are a teenager. When you are 30 you are an adult. Reading does wonders.

Here's a quote that you actually quoted in your reply (edit to add this line):
Quote:
I sure wasn't a child at thirteen. I wasn't an adult either. Neither were people my age then. It's why they are called teenagers.
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow Puncher
Well, first of all, teenager was a marketing term invented in the 1920's, so it doesn't really mean shit.

Second of all, you're technically a teenager from 13 to 19. That's a huge range in development that encompasses many different phases. So a 13 year old is still a kid. You're much closer to the age of 11 or 10 than you are to the age of 19. On a developmental scale, you're still dealing with things as a child of 11-12 would deal with them..

You might be pretending to be an adult. That's around the age a lot of kids start smoking, drinking, etc. So there is a lot of pretending going on. But you're still, at least from an emotional, psychological, and social perspective very much a child. I realize lots of societies mark the age of 13 as one being an adult, but that's simply because of a numbers fascination. "Oh way, you're in the teens now! You're an adult!"

Well, not really. 15 or 16 is when you start really transitioning into post-adolescent adulthood. At that point, you've sitll got a long way to go, but you're much closer to it than you are at 13.
Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty

Let's remember that the teacher did not, at any time, try to fuck his young student.
post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
Reading does wonders.
I do apologize, but trying to wade through your logic is nauseating.
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I'm so sick of 14 year olds being treated as children. Physically, they are sexually mature and many of them also are mentally.
Alright, 14 year olds are on par with adults because they're mature psychologically and physiologically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I would have thought parents were responsible for their offsprings.
But that would be treating them like children! They're capable of handling these things on their own... Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
No, according to my logic when you're 13 you are a teenager. When you are 30 you are an adult. Reading does wonders.
So then what's the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
Also, keep in mind that each year makes a huge difference at that age.
Oh right, that year between 13 and 14 turns you from a kid to a judicious adult who is fully aware and makes use of all their faculties, mentally and physically.

God, I'm just so confused by this whole mess! I'm trying to read what you're writing, because I hear it does wonders. But, I just can't wrap my head around it. If only I was more mature. Oh well, I'm throwing in the towel. You win.
post #18 of 43
You're a fucking idiot. How did you become an adult? Did you wake up one day and boom! You weren't a child anymore and suddenly you were an adult? A teenager is a human that is in the state between a child and an adult. He is maturing and growing up. More mature than a child, less than an adult.

Is that so hard to understand?

By the way, being sexually mature does not make you an adult. If you think 14 year olds don't have sex with each other (wich is very different from teens having sex with adults), you're living in a dream world.
post #19 of 43
Hey wait a minute... are you the guy that created Kid Nation, America's Number 1 new hit show on CBS?

For a second you had me going. Gosh darn you! Love the show.
post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
Hey wait a minute... are you the guy that created Kid Nation, America's Number 1 new hit show on CBS?

For a second you had me going. Gosh darn you! Love the show.
You must be a huge fan of To Catch a Predator.
post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
You must be a huge fan of To Catch a Predator.
She said she was fourteen.
post #22 of 43
He did not, in any way that we can know from this story, try to fuck her. He gave her a comic that deals with mature themes. Where are you going with this?
post #23 of 43
I never said I didn't agree with you about the comic book.
post #24 of 43
No, but you did try to insinuate in a humourus way, that I'm a pedophile:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
Hey wait a minute... are you the guy that created Kid Nation, America's Number 1 new hit show on CBS?

For a second you had me going. Gosh darn you! Love the show.
post #25 of 43
No, I meant that you're all for children finding things out on their own, and learning by their own mistakes.

But it's interesting to find out where you're head is at. No pun intended. Nah, I'm lying. That was intended.
post #26 of 43
You really got me there. You're such a fox.

Again, you use the word children. That is where we basically disagree. I don't believe a 14 year old girl (or boy) is a child.

By the way, judging from the quote you use as you're sig, I'm not the one who's got issues with this subject.
post #27 of 43
What do dinosaurs have to do with this?

And a fourteen year old is still a kid. It has nothing to do with how you treat them or how mature they are. In terms of age, they're still a kid. They're only five years removed from being in single digits. It just seems like you want to equate maturity with age. It's subjective from person to person.

I could give a fuck less what kind of literature a teacher gives a student. As long as they're not trying to bang them, the parents should be happy their kid isn't illiterate.
post #28 of 43
What does that have to do with dinosaurs?
Quote:
"Were you violating that young girl? Were you violating her with you penis?"
I'm not equating maturity with age. I'm talking about sexual maturity with age. Wether you like it or not, when a girl gets her period, she's sexually mature. She can now bare children. Wether she's mentally mature enough for this, that is a completely different thing.

Anyway, I still don't get where you were going, because from you're last sentence, it seems you agree with my original statement.
post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
She can now bare children.
Hmm... that sounds illegal.
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
Hmm... that sounds illegal.
Hehe, I just googled the correct spelling. That mistake will probably get me on Dateline. I'll be sure to name drop CHUD.
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
What does that have to do with dinosaurs?
That was a joke.

Listen, if all this time you've just been talking about a human being's physiology then I misunderstood. It just seemed like you were making an all encompassing statement about how fourteen year olds are mentally and physically self-sufficient. "Physically, they are sexually mature and many of them also are mentally." If all you were trying to say is that she could become pregnant at her age, then, well, obviously. That's just a fact of life.

But on the other side of that, what does the fact that she gets her period and can give birth have anything to do with something that is focused towards her intellect?
post #32 of 43
Again, reading helps:
Quote:
Physically, they are sexually mature and many of them also are mentally.
Nowhere does it say ALL teens should go and have sex because they are ready.

Also, reading about sexual situations is not the same thing as having sex. A 14 year old girl who's not mature enough to read a comic book that
Quote:
includes references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower
is really behind in her development.
post #33 of 43
You can call me a fucking idiot, and say I can't read to your hearts content. That's the way you choose to have an argument. Good enough.

But you don't see the difference between this girl finding about a comic on her own, seeking it out, then reading it, and a teacher giving this to her as required reading for a grade? People don't want the bible taught in public schools, why should "references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower" be any different?
post #34 of 43
You guys realize that the argument you're having is rather ridiculous?
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by donde
You guys realize that the argument you're having is rather ridiculous?
Yes.
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
But you don't see the difference between this girl finding about a comic on her own, seeking it out, then reading it, and a teacher giving this to her as required reading for a grade? People don't want the bible taught in public schools, why should "references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower" be any different?
The comic isn't pushing any beliefs on the reader. Any religious text does.

Quote:
You guys realize that the argument you're having is rather ridiculous?
Eric C. and me have passed the point of no return. We're going down with the ship.
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
People don't want the bible taught in public schools, why should "references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower" be any different?
People don't object to the Bible being taught in schools because of it's adult content. And actually, I'm sure 99% of the people who object to it would be perfectly happy with it being studied in a Literature class as opposed to a Religion one.

Also, it should probably be repeated a few more times that giving a 14 year-old a racy comic book is not statutory rape, no matter how red in the face it might make Bill O'Reilly.
post #38 of 43
Attn: Teachers

Don't give out this book:

post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
People don't object to the Bible being taught in schools because of it's adult content. And actually, I'm sure 99% of the people who object to it would be perfectly happy with it being studied in a Literature class as opposed to a Religion one.

Also, it should probably be repeated a few more times that giving a 14 year-old a racy comic book is not statutory rape, no matter how red in the face it might make Bill O'Reilly.
You guys keep bringing it back to sex. "If the teacher didn't try to bang her, then where's the harm?" seems to be where you're coming from.

It comes down to what people could see as inappropriate and offensive. The bible is offensive to some people. Rape and nudity is offensive to some people. In this day and age of partisanship those two things usually are mutually exclusive. It's like when people were upset that schools were teaching The Giver, if you start banning books then where is the line drawn? Unfortunately today if one thing is deemed upsetting, then it opens the door for thousands of other complaints. I just seems like as a teacher, common sense would mandate you don't give that book to a student who you've only known for two weeks. And possibly you shouldn't give it to them at all regardless of their perceived understanding, because no matter how she might see the material, she's under 18 and her parents still get to make the decision about what she should and shouldn't view. Like it or not them's the rules.
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
You guys keep bringing it back to sex. "If the teacher didn't try to bang her, then where's the harm?" seems to be where you're coming from.
You're going on and on about sexual maturity. I'm just saying that someone (ie, a young teen) who is not yet able to make fully responsible sexual decisions may still be able to handle a dirty comic book.

Quote:
It comes down to what people could see as inappropriate and offensive. The bible is offensive to some people. Rape and nudity is offensive to some people.
This is not at all what Bible-in-school debates come down to.

Quote:
In this day and age of partisanship those two things usually are mutually exclusive. It's like when people were upset that schools were teaching The Giver, if you start banning books then where is the line drawn? Unfortunately today if one thing is deemed upsetting, then it opens the door for thousands of other complaints. I just seems like as a teacher, common sense would mandate you don't give that book to a student who you've only known for two weeks. And possibly you shouldn't give it to them at all regardless of their perceived understanding, because no matter how she might see the material, she's under 18 and her parents still get to make the decision about what she should and shouldn't view. Like it or not them's the rules.
I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying here, but the parents have the right to object to the material, and it was a questionable decision on the teacher's part, but personally, I think they overreacted. I understand that this is an uncomfortable area for most parents, but realistically, if you're still trying to shield a kid from sexualized media at 14, you're fighting a losing and counter-productive battle. I know that I and all my associates had managed to track down honest-to-god porno by the time we hit 12. And now that I think on it, it may actually have been a year or two earlier. Anyway, I think in most cases 14 is at or past the time where shielding people from material dealing with sex does more harm than good.

As far as banning books goes, don't do it. But you seem to be operating under the assumption that people who protest the Bible's inclusion in public school curricula on the same grounds that those that object to The Giver or Harry Potter use, which is not the case.
post #41 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
You're going on and on about sexual maturity. I'm just saying that someone (ie, a young teen) who is not yet able to make fully responsible sexual decisions may still be able to handle a dirty comic book.
I'm not saying she can't. I'm saying that if she wanted to seek it out on her own, it would be a different story. This was given to her by an authority figure, that hardly knew her, for a grade. Like I said, lack of common sense on the teacher's part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
This is not at all what Bible-in-school debates come down to.
I didn't say all, or try to pin a number on anything. I was giving a one on one example. And the point I was making is that it's possible to go out on a limb and say that people that are offended by the bible are the same people that might not be offended by this comic book, and vice versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
I know that I and all my associates had managed to track down honest-to-god porno by the time we hit 12. And now that I think on it, it may actually have been a year or two earlier. Anyway, I think in most cases 14 is at or past the time where shielding people from material dealing with sex does more harm than good.
Did a teacher give you the porn to review for a grade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
But you seem to be operating under the assumption that people who protest the Bible's inclusion in public school curricula on the same grounds that those that object to The Giver or Harry Potter use, which is not the case.
I think I know what you're saying here, and you have to understand the way the world works. It has nothing to do with the case-specific content of the material, it's what people would most likely find offensive. And, I'm probably going out on another limb here, but most parents don't want their kids to be exposed to that, especially not when it's put into their hands by an educator. Never once did I say that any of these reactions from the given parties were correct or incorrect, some of you just seem content to stay blind to the way the world works in favor of a knee-jerk reaction because it's a comic book.

It was not a smart move for the teacher to give that student the comic book, because it could result in his termination or resignation due to the commonly objectionable material.

No, I don't think that children should be censored and kept from material that their parents or society might see as inappropriate for them. The only way that people can get any semblance of an understanding about life is to read about or experience things for themselves. Fourteen is not too young to read this comic, or watch porn, or have sex, or whatever else they want.

But, perhaps somewhere there is a young teenage girl that wouldn't be interested in a story about "references to rape, various sex acts and murder, as well as images of a naked woman, and a peeping tom watching a woman in the shower". She didn't seek it out. It was given to her by her teacher to eventually receive a grade; a teacher she'd known for less than three weeks. It wasn't even an off the cuff recommendation by the teacher saying, "Hey, I've known you long enough and I think I can point you in the direction of this, because I have a feeling you'll find it interesting and engaging." In which case she could find it and make her own decision on whether or not she needs to read it.

Unfortunately, the majority of our society is not made up by intellectual and open minded people who could see that this material might not be pornographic but deeper in a literary sense. Whether it is or isn't, is also not the point of this news story and why this teacher no longer has his job.
post #42 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
I
I didn't say all, or try to pin a number on anything. I was giving a one on one example. And the point I was making is that it's possible to go out on a limb and say that people that are offended by the bible are the same people that might not be offended by this comic book, and vice versa.
My whole point is that when you hear a debate about the Bible in schools, it's not because people are offended by the "references to rape, murder, and various sex acts" contained therein. It's because the Bible is taught in a way unlike any other book. As offensive as someone might find the content of the Iliad or Harry Potter, it's never suggested in science class that Posiedon's moods are one valid theory as to how the tides work or that the conflicts with giants that Harry studies in class actually took place.

I think the question of the Bible's place in school is an important one, but putting it in the terms you have, while making for an easier comparison, misses the actual substance of the issue.



Quote:
Did a teacher give you the porn to review for a grade?
Not that it's all that relevant, but I was assigned at least one book in the 7th grade were the threat of rape to the main character drove much of the narrative. It's entirely possible that the "references to rape" were handled in a much more delicate way than in the comic, which I'm not familiar with, but the class didn't seem particularly scarred by it. Then again, I went to Catholic school, so it's likely we were much more sexually jaded than other groups of 12-13 year olds.

The name of the book is bugging me now, though. Anyone remember a young-adult book that took place in a valley that shielded the teenage protagonist from the surrounding nuclear winter? And this guy in a radiation suit wanders in, and she ends up having to hide from him and steal the suit to get away?

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Never once did I say that any of these reactions from the given parties were correct or incorrect, some of you just seem content to stay blind to the way the world works in favor of a knee-jerk reaction because it's a comic book.
I have a knee-jerk reaction to censorship. Particularly when it's directed at English teachers, who at their best should direct their students toward more adult, challenging works. Whether the comic qualified, I don't know, as I'd never heard of it prior to now.

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It was not a smart move for the teacher to give that student the comic book, because it could result in his termination or resignation due to the commonly objectionable material.
It definitely wasn't a smart move, as this result is not particularly surprising in our current society. But, in my personal opinion, I'm not inclined to judge the guy too harshly. He'd known her 3 weeks? I don't see why that's not long enough to get a basic sense of the kid's level of maturity or sensitivity. And I think that by the time high school comes around, the gloves should more or less come off, and a teacher is generally going to serve his students better by pushing them toward more mature material than trying to protect them from it.

Of course, the parents are well within their rights to object to how their daughter's education is being carried out. I just don't agree with their objections.
post #43 of 43
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Originally Posted by Schwartz
I just don't agree with their objections.
And neither do I. All I've been trying to convey is that it wasn't the smartest move for the teacher, and instead of people being outraged at his probably forced dismissal, we should all be intelligent enough to realize that unfortunately this is the world in which we live. That's all.
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