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Turning Ahmadinejad into public enemy No. 1

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Demonizing the Iranian president and making his visit to New York seem controversial are all part of the neoconservative push for yet another war.

By Juan Cole


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad waves as he leaves Tehran Sept. 23 to attend the U.N. General Assembly in New York.

Sept. 24, 2007 | Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's visit to New York to address the United Nations General Assembly has become a media circus. But the controversy does not stem from the reasons usually cited.

The media has focused on debating whether he should be allowed to speak at Columbia University on Monday, or whether his request to visit Ground Zero, the site of the Sept. 11 attack in lower Manhattan, should have been honored. His request was rejected, even though Iran expressed sympathy with the United States in the aftermath of those attacks and Iranians held candlelight vigils for the victims. Iran felt that it and other Shiite populations had also suffered at the hands of al-Qaida, and that there might now be an opportunity for a new opening to the United States.

Instead, the U.S. State Department denounced Ahmadinejad as himself little more than a terrorist. Critics have also cited his statements about the Holocaust or his hopes that the Israeli state will collapse. He has been depicted as a Hitler figure intent on killing Israeli Jews, even though he is not commander in chief of the Iranian armed forces, has never invaded any other country, denies he is an anti-Semite, has never called for any Israeli civilians to be killed, and allows Iran's 20,000 Jews to have representation in Parliament.

There is, in fact, remarkably little substance to the debates now raging in the United States about Ahmadinejad. His quirky personality, penchant for outrageous one-liners, and combative populism are hardly serious concerns for foreign policy. Taking potshots at a bantam cock of a populist like Ahmadinejad is actually a way of expressing another, deeper anxiety: fear of Iran's rising position as a regional power and its challenge to the American and Israeli status quo. The real reason his visit is controversial is that the American right has decided the United States needs to go to war against Iran. Ahmadinejad is therefore being configured as an enemy head of state.

The neoconservatives are even claiming that the United States has been at war with Iran since 1979. As Glenn Greenwald points out, this assertion is absurd. In the '80s, the Reagan administration sold substantial numbers of arms to Iran. Some of those beating the war drums most loudly now, like think-tank rat Michael Ledeen, were middlemen in the Reagan administration's unconstitutional weapons sales to Tehran. The sales would have been a form of treason if in fact the United States had been at war with Iran at that time, so Ledeen is apparently accusing himself of treason.

But the right has decided it is at war with Iran, so a routine visit by Iran's ceremonial president to the U.N. General Assembly has generated sparks. The foremost cheerleader for such a view in Congress is Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., who recently pressed Gen. David Petraeus on the desirability of bombing Iran in order to forestall weapons smuggling into Iraq from that country (thus cleverly using one war of choice to foment another).

American hawks are beating the war drums loudly because they are increasingly frustrated with the course of events. They are unsatisfied with the lack of enthusiasm among the Europeans and at the United Nations for impeding Tehran's nuclear energy research program. While the Bush administration insists that the program aims at producing a bomb, the Iranian state maintains that it is for peaceful energy purposes. Washington wants tighter sanctions on Iran at the United Nations but is unlikely to get them in the short term because of Russian and Chinese reluctance. The Bush administration may attempt to create a "coalition of the willing" of Iran boycotters outside the U.N. framework.

Washington is also unhappy with Mohammad ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He has been unable to find credible evidence that Iran has a weapons program, and he told Italian television this week, "Iran does not constitute a certain and immediate threat for the international community." He stressed that no evidence had been found for underground production sites or hidden radioactive substances, and he urged a three-month waiting period before the U.N. Security Council drew negative conclusions.

ElBaradei intervened to call for calm after French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said last week that if the negotiations over Iran's nuclear research program were unsuccessful, it could lead to war. Kouchner later clarified that he was not calling for an attack on Iran, but his remarks appear to have been taken seriously in Tehran.

Kouchner made the remarks after there had already been substantial speculation in the U.S. press that impatient hawks around U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney were seeking a pretext for a U.S. attack on Iran. Steven Clemons of the New America Foundation probably correctly concluded in Salon last week that President Bush himself has for now decided against launching a war on Iran. But Clemons worries that Cheney and the neoconservatives, with their Israeli allies, are perfectly capable of setting up a provocation that would lead willy-nilly to war.

David Wurmser, until recently a key Cheney advisor on Middle East affairs and the coauthor of the infamous 1996 white paper that urged an Iraq war, revealed to his circle that Cheney had contemplated having Israel strike at Iranian nuclear research facilities and then using the Iranian reaction as a pretext for a U.S. war on that country. Prominent and well-connected Afghanistan specialist Barnett Rubin also revealed that he was told by an administration insider that there would be an "Iran war rollout" by the Cheneyites this fall.
Read the rest here.
post #2 of 81
Thread Starter 
And one more...

Quote:
Thom Hartmann: Columbia University Shows True American Values

Posted September 23, 2007 | 09:29 PM (EST)

Columbia University, by inviting Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak, has shown confidence in the wisdom and adultness of their students and our republic.

Ahmadinejad is the president of a major nation in a vital part of the world, and we should have enough self-assurance and belief in our own system of government, and in the intelligence of our college students, that we can let them (and our larger public) evaluate his words, whatever they may be.

To be terrified of his speaking there (or, for that matter, laying a wreath at Ground Zero) is behavior one would have expected from a fragile régime like Khrushchev's USSR or Burma's military junta, not the bold, brave, and fearless USA.

We are the nation whose President Nixon reached out to and met with China's Mao Tse Tsung at the same time Mao was funding and arming the North Vietnamese to kill our soldiers in Vietnam. We're the nation whose President Reagan confronted Soviet President Gorbachev, who at the time had thousands of nuclear warheads armed and pointed at us and was actively funding and arming proxy wars we were fighting in more than a half-dozen nations. We're the nation whose President Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

And let's also remember that the people of Tehran, Iran, produced one of the largest candlelight vigil demonstrations in the Muslim world in support of the USA the day after 9/11, repudiating the act and actors of that event. We still have the ability to make an ally of that nation, and shouldn't blow it by fear and bluster (or bombs). America is better and stronger than the nervous Nellies and chickenhawk war-mongers who currently have control of the Republican Party (and a few Democrats, apparently).

As JFK said: "We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."

We are not afraid. We are Americans!
From here.
post #3 of 81
I still love how the whole administration behaves like a 5 years-old spoiled kid. It maybe fucked up and sad, but it's at least entertaining.
post #4 of 81
You know, I didn't think I could get any more bummed out than I already am. I guess I was wrong.
post #5 of 81
If they act like this with Ahmadinejad, imagine how fast a global thermonuclear would have happen had these fanatical clowns had been leading the United States during the Cold War? There were dumbasses, but this is pretty much the lowest you can go short of Kim Jong Il.

edit: grammar...
post #6 of 81
Thread Starter 
What really freaks me out is this idea of what happened to our representation in government? The vast majority of Americans don't want what's being foisted on them by Bush's regime -- the devastation of the Iraq war that is being waged solely for the benefit of multinational (read: oil) corporations; the inevitable aggression towards Iran, which holds zero threat to us; the weirdness of our continuing relationship with China - involving gazillions in borrowed debt and a total offloading of nearly all manufacturing (and thereby jobs) and loosening of quality, health and environmental standards; the continued servitude to the oil and coal industries, who are destroying us one degree at a time.

Why isn't anyone in Washington prepared to just tell it like it is and face these immoral blowhards with the truth for once? The Democrats in Congress, in doing nothing, are almost as bad as the Bush/Cheney cabal.
post #7 of 81
Nice post, yt. Juan Cole is a smart guy, and he lays it out very nicely here. It's almost dizzying to hear the neocons beating the drums about Iran, particularly when it's their own slipshod occupation policies that let so many Badr Organization members into the new Iraqi government. And now we wonder why they're pro Iran?
post #8 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage
I still love how the whole administration behaves like a 5 years-old spoiled kid.
Older than 5. Kids that young don't really hold grudges. The Bush Administration's model is "Foreign Policy in Junior High School."

Condoleeza, to Jordanian ambassador: "Look, over there, it's the Iranian ambassador."

Jordanian ambassador: "You should go talk to him."

Condoleeza: "No! Somebody might see. Here's a note. Go give it to him, ask him to read it, and then come back and tell me what he says."
post #9 of 81
So I'm listening to Ahmadinejad's speech...and he is borrowing from the Jerry Falwell book....science is the source of all evil...unless it's combined with God.
post #10 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson
So I'm listening to Ahmadinejad's speech...and he is borrowing from the Jerry Falwell book....science is the source of all evil...unless it's combined with God.
You mean like W. Bush?
post #11 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt
the inevitable aggression towards Iran, which holds zero threat to us
yt, do you think that the "inevitable aggression" towards Iran is something the GOP is actively pursuing? It would seem to me that they would be trying to get away from that since there has been so much opposition building to the Iraq War. With presidential elections on the horizon, there doesn't seem to be anything to gain from flirting with a Iran-US conflict.

ETA: Maybe not the GOP so much as the Bush admin, but they are the figurative heads of the GOP.
post #12 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage
You mean like W. Bush?
Yes you dumb fuck.
post #13 of 81
Talk like this worries me:

Quote:
Now for the good news. All the damaging consequences of all the blunders the President has committed to date in Iraq are reversible in 48- to 72-hours - the time it will take to destroy Iran's fragile nuclear supply chain from the air. And since the job gets done using mostly stand-off weapons and stealth bombers, not one American soldier, sailor or airman need suffer as much as a bruised foot.


Let's look downstream the day after and observe how the world has changed.


First and foremost, there's this prospective fait accompli -- and it changes everything. The Iranians are no longer a nuclear threat, and won't be again for at least another decade, and even that assumes the strategic and diplomatic situation reverts to the status quo ante and they'll just be able to pick up and rebuild as they would after an earthquake. Not possible.


Next, the Iranians would do nothing -- bupkes. They don't attack Israel, they don't choke off the world's oil supply, they do not send hit squads to the United States, there is no "war" in the conventional sense of attack counterattack. Iran already has its hands full without inviting more trouble. Its leaders would be reeling from the initial US attack and they would know our forces are in position to strike again if Iran provokes us or our allies. They would stand before mankind with their pants around their ankles, dazed, bleeding, crying, reduced to bloviating from mosques in Teheran and pounding their fists on desks at the UN. The lifelines they throw to the Iraqi insurgents, Hezbollah and Syria would begin to dry up, as would the lifelines the double-dealing Europeans have been throwing to Iran. Maybe the Mullahs would lose control.


Strong tremors would be felt throughout the Islamic ummah. "Just as we feared, they finally called our bluff. We pushed America to the limit and America pushed us back twice as hard. Looks who's the dhimmi now! Uh, maybe we need to rethink this 7th century Jihad crap -- as well as the Jihadist idiots around here. This is all turning out to be more trouble than it's worth."


Miracles would be seen here at home. Democratic politicians are dumbstruck, silent for a week. With one swing of his mighty bat, the President has hit a dramatic walk-off homerun. He goes from goat to national hero overnight. The elections in November are a formality. Republicans keep the White House and recapture both houses of Congress. Hillary is elected president - of the Chappaqua PTA.


Going forward, with Iran's influence blunted and the insurgents cut off, we end the war in Iraq on our terms. In his first hundred days, the new president reads Iraq the riot act and tells its leaders if they don't pull themselves together by a date certain, America will decide they're not worth the candle and we're going to get out.


From that point on, with our arms free of the quicksand, we can fight the war on terror the way it should have been fought in the first place. Using our enormous edge in weapons, intelligence and technology, and building on it, we launch quick, lethal, ad hoc strikes wherever in the world we determine terrorists are working to harm us, shooting first and asking for permission later.


Am I dreaming? I don't think so. Being too sensible is probably more like it. In any event, I am not creating anything original here. Combine Bush's recent statements with those of the President of France and it's not hard to see where this is heading. Mr. Bush still has time to put America back on the offensive again. But with only a little more than a year left in his term he has no time to lose. Rarely does history provide a failed wartime leader with such a golden opportunity for salvation.
Basically, the same idiotic optimism that got us in the mess we're in, but it's that line about "They would stand before mankind with their pants around their ankles, dazed, bleeding, crying, reduced to bloviating from mosques in Teheran and pounding their fists on desks at the UN" that really worries me. This is how Republicans keep clinging to power--appealing to the bruised masculinity of the Stuntman Mikes of America.
post #14 of 81
Face it, nobody likes this guy. It's not some "neo-con" movement. People read about him and the things he's said and he comes off like a large dick.

So what if people don't want him here? They can protest if they want. He's still here and speaking, isn't he?
post #15 of 81
Thread Starter 
Leonard, nothing that the Bush administration pushes and the mainstream media faithfully promotes has even the remotest glancing relationship with reality. Their stated reasons for going after Iran are as truthful as the idea that we invaded Iraq because we were being threatened by Saddam's gigantic stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.

This administration is driven by one impetus: to make the rich richer and give the powerful more power. They don't care about truth or justice, history or the American way, or you or me, or God, or anyone dying right now in Iraq. They don't care about the massive disaster that would result from strikes on Iran. They don't care what the rest of the world would think of America in the face of such an unprovoked attack. It wouldn't cause Bush, Cheney or any of them to lose a moment's sleep.
post #16 of 81
But if the Dems take control in the White House next year, as they have already done in Congress, does that not stop them from getting us to Iran? And if that is one of their ultimate goals, would it not serve them better to downplay any tensions with Iran due to the popular discomfort with additional armed conflicts?
post #17 of 81
Thread Starter 
Iran is the fixation of the Bush administration, not the Dems. Unfortunately, they seem to be sticking their collective head in the sand for political reasons, so anything they say publicly most likely won't rock the boat one way or another, with a few possible exceptions. If a Dem does get elected in '08 - and it's no guarantee - there will be no more posturing wrt Iran.
post #18 of 81
This talk about the neocon drumbeat to war is much ado about nothing. Neocons do not have the power to get another unprovoked invasion of a Middle Eastern off the ground. Members of think tanks can write articles, talk radio hosts can rant, and Senators can publicly raise a question about the propriety of attacking or invading Iran. But the reality is that Bush is too weak politically and our forces are stretched too thin for Bush to realistically consider taking on Iran absent a direct attack, not just proxy attacks in Iraq.

Consider what Bush needed to sell the Iraq invasion. He had a public stirred up because of 9/11, a fresh and seemingly easy victory in Afghanistan, a sky-high approval rating, the credibility to sell questionable pre-war intelligence as fact, pliant Democrats unwilling to speak up for fear of looking "unpatriotic", a cabinet full of neocons, a somewhat sympathetic International Community and UN Security Council, and a strong ally (UK) willing to help shoulder some of the load (militarily and politically). Fast forward to '07 and '08, and it's pretty clear that Bush doesn't have the standing to do this, even if he wanted to. A majority of Americans now view Iraq as mistake. Neocon hawks like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are gone, as is any real international support for such an invasion. The Democrats, for all their ineffectiveness at ending the current war, will not rubber-stamp another one. The three leading Democratic candidates would be on the news every night making their counterpoints to a sympathetic public. Even most of the Republican candidates would speak out against the new war, not wanting to take the chance of inheriting an even bigger mess than Iraq.

Simply put, as bad as the decision was to invade Iraq, it has completely changed the conditions under which a president, especially this one, can sell another unprovoked invasion. Let the unnamed (at least by Juan Cole) "neocons", "right", and "American hawks" continue to call for an attack on Iran. Thanks to Bush and the mess he made in Iraq, the cry will continue to fall on deaf ears.
post #19 of 81
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that like in your country. ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
post #20 of 81
No matter what you think about Ahmadinejad, the behavior of the reporter in this interview can easily be described as "what the fuck is wrong with you, you warmongering accusatory asshole"? I never thought I'd see the day that I'd call Ahmadinejad restrained and sensible, but after seeing this interview...man.
post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
Simply put, as bad as the decision was to invade Iraq, it has completely changed the conditions under which a president, especially this one, can sell another unprovoked invasion. Let the unnamed (at least by Juan Cole) "neocons", "right", and "American hawks" continue to call for an attack on Iran. Thanks to Bush and the mess he made in Iraq, the cry will continue to fall on deaf ears.
Exactly, but of course, far-left whiners will continue to insist that The Iran War will begin tomorrow with Bush dropping the big one on Tehran. I hate Bush, but too many times people love to go overboard with this crap.
post #22 of 81
Only Congress has the power to declare war, do you think the democratic congress would let us declare war on Iran (I really hope not)?
post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by englebert
Only Congress has the power to declare war, do you think the democratic congress would let us declare war on Iran (I really hope not)?
FYI, Congress hasn't declared war since WWII. It has, however, authorized seven military conflicts since then without actually declaring war. Also, the president is authorized by the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution to use military force for up to 60 days for "police actions" without Congressional resolution. In other words, if a president really wanted to attack another country, the president could arguably do so over Congressional objection, provided he/she wrapped it up in 60 days.
post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
FYI, Congress hasn't declared war since WWII. It has, however, authorized seven military conflicts since then without actually declaring war. Also, the president is authorized by the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution to use military force for up to 60 days for "police actions" without Congressional resolution. In other words, if a president really wanted to attack another country, the president could arguably do so over Congressional objection, provided he/she wrapped it up in 60 days.
Time to get my draft dodging plans in order.
post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
Simply put, as bad as the decision was to invade Iraq, it has completely changed the conditions under which a president, especially this one, can sell another unprovoked invasion. Let the unnamed (at least by Juan Cole) "neocons", "right", and "American hawks" continue to call for an attack on Iran. Thanks to Bush and the mess he made in Iraq, the cry will continue to fall on deaf ears.
That the American public will hopefully become much more skeptical of politicos before consenting to military action is one of the few good things to come of the Iraq War.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by englebert
Only Congress has the power to declare war, do you think the democratic congress would let us declare war on Iran (I really hope not)?
I'm no evil genius but I would try to cram it under the existing AUMF against terrorism if I were.
post #27 of 81
I loathe Bush too, but let's keep our eye on the ball here. Ahmaninejad claims there's no gays in his country, decries the Holocaust, and thinks Israel should be wiped off the map. The president of Columbia University was totally right in engaging this asshole in the way that he did.

This guy's a puppet for anyone with an agenda.
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
This talk about the neocon drumbeat to war is much ado about nothing. Neocons do not have the power to get another unprovoked invasion of a Middle Eastern off the ground.
If I'm reading it right, it's not going to be an invasion, they're basically just going to bomb the hell out of a bunch of different areas where they think Iran is constructing nuclear weapons. God knows how much collateral and political damage that would cause, and I've read studies that write the whole thing off as hopeless anyway, due to the inability of the bombs to penetrate the ground deep enough to do any damage to these supposed hidden underground laboratories.

Will the majority listen to reason? Even in the face of Iraq, the same old thing could well happen yet again. The Fundamentalist Republicans will continue to put out emotional appeals about how dangerous Iran is, and over time the people will become more and more outraged, until eventually again it will become too difficult to stop the war.
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that like in your country. ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
There's a reason for that, they execute people (including minors) caught in the act.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...d_Ayaz_Marhoni
I'm not trying to demonize anyone, but the headlines brought my attention to his quote, and to these incidents. Yeesh.
post #30 of 81
Quote:
Strong tremors would be felt throughout the Islamic ummah. "Just as we feared, they finally called our bluff. We pushed America to the limit and America pushed us back twice as hard. Looks who's the dhimmi now! Uh, maybe we need to rethink this 7th century Jihad crap -- as well as the Jihadist idiots around here. This is all turning out to be more trouble than it's worth."
Does this guy still leave out cookies for Santa too?
post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller
There's a reason for that, they execute people (including minors) caught in the act.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...d_Ayaz_Marhoni
I'm not trying to demonize anyone, but the headlines brought my attention to his quote, and to these incidents. Yeesh.
You don't really need to demonize him, though. From what I've read of the Columbia speech, it sounds like Ahmadinejad, himself, has beaten you to the punch. As Nordling was saying, it's important to not make this a black and white situation. It's perfectly possible for both Bush and Ahmadinejad to be awful, awful people in completely different ways, and we shouldn't feel obligated to speak up for one just to prove our dislike for the other.

I think the fact that the Columbia president took him to task shows exactly why we should support the rights of people like Ahmadinejad to speak publicly in our country, where dialogue and dissent are part and parcel of free speech. I don't get people who didn't want him to speak at all. Did they seriously think he was going to fire off some crazy holocaust denial and not get challenged by someone?
post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard
yt, do you think that the "inevitable aggression" towards Iran is something the GOP is actively pursuing? It would seem to me that they would be trying to get away from that since there has been so much opposition building to the Iraq War. With presidential elections on the horizon, there doesn't seem to be anything to gain from flirting with a Iran-US conflict.

ETA: Maybe not the GOP so much as the Bush admin, but they are the figurative heads of the GOP.
Do not look to reason when considering the actions of the Bush Administration. Reason has no home there.
post #33 of 81
Hey, wow, that American Thinker article is fascinating. Apparently bombing Iran would magically solve all our problems overnight! Sign me up!
post #34 of 81
Favorite part of the "article":

Quote:
When I belly up for my chicken on pita, these men invariably greet me with cheerful deference, often referring to me as "boss." That polite gratuity is a clear sign they understand their standing the melting pot can only be maintained through good citizenship and proper behavior. To put it bluntly, their instincts tell them the Muslim community isn't on top in polyglot America.
post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny
The president of Columbia University was totally right in engaging this asshole in the way that he did.
It was truly a fabulous display of hospitality.
post #36 of 81
Indeed. So fabulous it was embarrassing to this country.
post #37 of 81
Somehow, I don't feel embarrassed. Should I?
post #38 of 81
Ahmadinejad spoke, didn't he? I'm trying to understand this great oppression that supposedly happened here. Not only did he hear something different than his bullshit dogma being spouted back at him, he was ridiculed by the audience too. I mean, how else is someone supposed to react to "We have no homosexuals in Iran?"

I was and continue to be for Ahmandinejad speaking publicly, but it works both ways. What happened yesterday made me honestly proud to be American for the first time in a while.
post #39 of 81
Thread Starter 
I agree. We are supposed to be the country of free speech - not the country of finger-wagging and character assassination. The university students should be invited to listen to what the man has to say and judge for themselves. Independent, complex thinking is what's sorely missing in education today - and unfortunately that trend shows in the way our country has changed in the past 30 years.
post #40 of 81
Is there a transcript online somewhere?
post #41 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by englebert
Is there a transcript online somewhere?
Transcript
post #42 of 81
I'm glad Bollinger said all that and I'm glad the protesters were out in force as well. I'm suppose to feel bad about America today because of this crap? Just listen to the massively stupid things the man said during his Q&A. Right, I'm gonna go shed some tears for this country because some people don't want a dickhead of a dictator to be here.

So I'm to believe that the hundreds of university students' opinions were instantly changed by what Bollinger said? Ooookay.

I guess I'm a neo-con, right? Was the man allowed access into our country? Yes. Was he allowed to speak? Yes. So what the fuck is the problem? Once he steps into our borders, our people have the right to treat this kind of man anyway they want.

And not every visitor gets this kind of reception. There are REASONS why people don't like him.
post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Bolivar
The problem isn't that he spoke, the problem is that he was invited, and then he was attacked. He said ridiculous things, and then he was laughed at by the audience, which is fine, and honestly appreciated, because he needs to be mocked for his more ridiculous views.
I think it is essentially the same thing that happens to Bush in Europe.
post #44 of 81
It's not any more of an insult that what Ahmandinejad was saying.

Civility is such an awful excuse for letting world leaders spew falsehoods. Leaders need to be asked tough questions and need to be pressed when the opportunity arises. This is what free speech really is, not a one-way street.

If they had to be deceitful in order to address some of his lies directly to his face, then so be it. If he wasn't being so deceitful in his answers, he wouldn't have had to worry about it.
post #45 of 81
Thread Starter 
Bollinger was covering his own ass, nothing more. I thought it was pretty absurd. The audience's reaction, the general public's reaction, whatever - that's fair. And Ahmadinejad should absolutely see how Americans react to some of the things he says - it's open, free expression both ways. But I think Bollinger disgraced himself and his school. Our universities should promote free expression.

ps.
Quote:
[Yesterday,] Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) said in a statement that if Columbia University President Lee Bollinger “follows through with this hosting of the leader of Iran, I will move in Congress to cut off every single type of Federal Funding to Columbia University.” […]

Appearing on Fox News’ Your World with Neil Cavuto after the speech, Hunter said that he plans to follow through on his threat and will now “initiate legislation, and try to get as many people as can see it my way, to cut off funds to Columbia University.”
From here
post #46 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that like in your country. ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
As ridiculous as this is, how is "Marriage is between a man and a woman" or "gayness is a disease that can be cured by Bible-learnin'" any better? Both are equally disconnected from reality if you ask me.
post #47 of 81
I think it's a lot more honest to have the host of the event ask questions than it would be to throw him to journalists whom he probably wouldn't bother with, anyways. This provided a forum where he had to answer.
post #48 of 81
God forbid we allow a foreign leader to be shown as anything but a monster. That may actually lead to us talking our problems out instead of just blowing things up.
post #49 of 81
Thread Starter 
Indeed. Meanwhile:

Quote:
The chancellors of seven Iranian universities issued a letter on Tuesday to Bollinger saying his statements were "deeply shameful" and invited him to Iran.

In the letter, they asked him to respond to 10 questions ranging from: "Why did the U.S. support the bloodthirsty dictator Saddam Hussein during the 1980-88 Iraqi-imposed war on Iran?" to "Why has the U.S. military failed to find al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden even with all its advanced equipment?"
link.
post #50 of 81
Those chancellors are dumb.
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