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Is Horror Comedy to Blame?

post #1 of 19
9/25/07 at 12:02am
Thread Starter 
Before you kill me, hear me out.

Then kill me.

I was thinkuing the other day about Alex's last "Rant in A Minor". For those who may have missed it (and shame on you! Go back & read it now!), it was about a bad experience he recently had in a movie theatre showing revival screenings of "A Nightmare on Elm Street" and "Friday the 13th", wherein people in the audience started spouting the dialogue and laughing at Jason and Freddy during what are supposed to be srious parts of the movie. Al laments the fact that to some, iconic figures in horror cinema have become such a cultural staple that they're thought of as funny, and not horrific. He was justifiably peeved by this.

So I got to wondering. . . what's to blame for this phenomenon? I imagine the largest shares of the blame have to go to two main causes: 1. Filmmakers who intentionally play their villains for laughs. Freddy Krueger turning from a genuinely creepy child molester-turned-undead-serial-murderer into a wisecracking comic is the most obvious example. If a filmmaker is willing to let his own character get played for laughs, why shouldn't the audience laugh along? and 2. Laughably bad (but intended to be serious), crappy horror movies. I've written before about my friend Jay's Halloween tradition, where we'd intentionally rent a bad horror movie (but the rule was it couldn't be one that was intentionally horror/comedy), and MST3K it over beer and 6' hero slices. These events never lacked for huge amounts of hilarity at the film's expense. Shit like this has to make it seem OK to non-horror fans to laugh at horror films at what Al argues - and I agree - are inappropriate times.

But can part of the blame be placed on horror comedies? Movies that are supposed to blend horror and comedy, like "Shaun of the Dead" or "Feast"? Does seeing a movie like this say to the average movie going schmuck: "See?" they think to themselves, "Even horror directors/writers/fans think this shit's funny."

Now, I'm not saying for a minute that movies like SOTD shouldn't be made, in order that we may stamp out the scourge of the poser horror fan's inappropriate laughter. I may not have liked the "Evil Dead" movies, but I can appreciate a good horror comedy. We as fans of the genre can laugh at a movie like that for all it is, and all it isn't. We get the joke on probably a deeper level because we know, from having seen so many "real" zombie movies, how this story is supposed to go, and the absurdity of SOTD is that much funnier. SOTD was a fun ride, and I greatly enjoyed it. But is the attitude Al & I decry an unintentional but unavoidable byproduct of the horror comedy? Will we forever have to grit our teeth and bear it when these loudmouthed assholes ruin the best parts of our favorite films? Unfortunately, while I again stress that we shouldn't stop watching or enjoying these films, I think the attitude and the teeth gritting it inspires are, sadly, unavoidable.

Actually, now that I think about it, I blame "Scream" more. It may not have beena comedy per se, but it certainly was self referential and did make sport of horror movie cliches. I grinned wryly atching it, but didn't like it nearly as much as SOTD, and have watched the ideas and imagery from that film become parodies, in the sequels & imitators as well as honest to God spoofs like "Scary Movie". "Scream" was a great idea, but seems to have made it OK to be too cool for the room where horror movies are concerned. And that's annoying. Let's face it; a lot of the movies we see and consider "good" are not great films by any stretch. But the sea of absolute dreck we are subjected to every year has forced us to lower our standards & turn a blind eye to the flaws in a lot of films. Assholes who've seen "Scream" and taken it a little too much to heart make doing so kind of embarrassing; they make it seem like you'd have to be an idiot to enjoy "Head Trauma" or "Feast" , or soemthing from After Dark's Horrorfests despite their flaws, because they aren't what they'd consider "good" movies.

And they laugh at a movie we're trying to enjoy on a serious level, thus taking away fro the experience.

Does anyone agree with me, that this snobbery is an unfortunate, unavoidable, regrettable by product of the horror comedy, something we'll have to grin and bear long after our own laughter at the parts of the movies that are supposed to be funny are over, and the screaming's supposed to start?
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post #2 of 19
9/25/07 at 12:28am
I don't think that dog hunts, Iggy. Horror comedy has been around too long for it to be the reason people laugh in all the wrong places. From Laurel and Hardy to Abbott and Costello to Don Knotts (sorry, but the Ghost and Mr Chicken is a personal fave...I only wish we coulda gotten a Barney Fife noir out of him at some point) and on from there, horror comedy has been a staple of the comedic film genre. Granted, most of them really should be termed comedy horrors, but the idea is there.

Nope. I think it's the watering down of the characters that has done Freddy and Co. in. Sequelitis, perhaps. Hey....we had Freddy do *this* two movies ago. Let's have him do *this squared* in this one. I call bullshit. We know that horror exists at that barely seen edge of reality, that point just this side of impossible. So I'll buy implausible, but you take it and squeeze it any further and we're taken out of the moment. And it doesn't help if you can't find a fucking way to bring out something more than "better kills" in those flicks. Give me something more. Give me a reason to believe that this boogeyman might actually be waiting under my bed.

Nope, they didn't bother. They kept skewing younger and younger and dumber and dumber. Because we don't need a story or a budget or an idea. We got Freddy. Everywhere on God's Green Earth. Comic books, a syndicated teevee show (regardless of whether the character was in it...the title had to do some damage from your average viewer looking at it and tuning out) and all manner of flair.

Yeah, Scream didn't help. But by the time it came along, we had little or nothing to hang on to anyway. You go back now and you watch those earlier flicks and you're carrying the baggage of half a dozen sequels or more with you. Sequels that were over-the-top silly and stupid and snarky and self-referential in and of themselves.

Slither, Feast, Night of the Creeps, Shaun....I don't blame them one iota. I blame the audience for buying into the silliness. I blame the studios for not having one bit of creativity or balls or length of vision. And, I guess, at some point I blame the creators for not having respect for what the films could be.

My ducat's worth, anyway.
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post #3 of 19
9/25/07 at 12:44am
I'm pretty sure its the general stupidity and inconsiderate nature of your average movie goer that is to blame. You fill a room with mouth breathing fucktards who think that the outside world exists for the sole purpose of making them happy and they are bound to behave as if they are watching the flick at their house or trailer and not a public venue.
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post #4 of 19
9/25/07 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
I may not have liked the "Evil Dead" movies
WHAT???
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post #5 of 19
9/25/07 at 1:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillingPickman
I'm pretty sure its the general stupidity and inconsiderate nature of your average movie goer that is to blame. You fill a room with mouth breathing fucktards who think that the outside world exists for the sole purpose of making them happy and they are bound to behave as if they are watching the flick at their house or trailer and not a public venue.
Okay...yeah. That's likely it.
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post #6 of 19
9/25/07 at 1:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledork
Slither, Feast, Night of the Creeps, Shaun....I don't blame them one iota.
Me neither. No way.

I think (and this is gonna make me sound old), but the youth of today are too disrespectful and unfocused to enjoy a movie without disturbing everyone around them. It's not just that one guy anymore (the clown of the group, like in IT), or that delinquent group of punks (ala Biff and gang in B2TF) that are expected to cause trouble, it's most kids/young people. Not satisfied with just watching a movie, they're text messaging. If their conversations are nothing more than "LOL", etc what can you expect of their appreciation for anything creative? They don't consider what's on the screen art... it's disposable entertainment. Like whatever website they're wasting time on, or whatever video game they might be playing until the new one comes out, or whatever shitty TV show that was on last night that's identical to the shitty show that's on tonight. Too many ways for kids (through college) to spend their time nowadays... and until their income ISN'T disposable and they actually have to spend it on bills and other responsibilities, the world is THEIR oyster and they don't care who they annoy while they laugh at it and throw it into the trash. They don't want to feel immersed, they want to feel superior. Shit, as long as they can download and forget any song, flick, or any other intellectual/artistic property at the speed of a keyboard click, I don't see this problem going away. Idiocracy was right.

Damn, that sounded bitter. Get off my lawn!!!

EDIT: And what Killing Pickman said.

Iggy your lack of love for the Evil Dead movies (I'll forgive ya, but only because I don't live with ya) smells a little like bias creeping in on this topic. One of the best horror flicks of all time (AWWIL) was also effectively a "horror-comedy".
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post #7 of 19
9/25/07 at 2:30am
I'd say sequelitis and cash-ins did no favors, definitely. Look at the respect that The Thing is held today. Whenever I show that to a new group of viewers it's always reacted to with either silent, totally-tense suspense or "WHAT THE FUCK!??!!!", both desired reactions. And it's always from us youngsters. Whereas nobody gives a fuck about Freddy, or Jason, or Rambo for that matter. They're seen as goofballs from goofball franchises that aren't worth your respect.

I'd say this is a very difficult generation to get to respect you, because we're so used to constant advertising (something we've grown up with, and thus become very suspicious of and contrary to it), so used to people and movies selling out, and other forms of commercialization. Once they had that Sprite commercial with the Agent Smith-alike in front of Reloaded in theaters, that series' (which before that was held as a cinematic Bible) respectability shattered. The actual sequels themselves didn't do it any favors either, but that's for another thread. Many, many other threads.
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post #8 of 19
9/25/07 at 8:55am
Thread Starter 
Excelent points, all. I'd pos rep Teledork again, but I gotta spread some more. Don't misunderstand; I have nothing against horror comedies. I can take them in the spirit in which they're intended. I think, and I may be wrong, that they're made largely for us, the genre fans, to get a laugh out of. My argument is that while that's happening, the unavoidable by-product is it seems to help green light the disdain of the "mouth breathing fucktards" (thanks, Pickman).
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post #9 of 19
9/25/07 at 9:33am
Another thing:

Instant info. Back when I was a kid, the only way I could learn about any of the behind the scenes stuff from monster/horror movies was to go to the freakin library and read through the four books we had on the subject. Things got a little better once Starlog started showing up on the shelves, but not much. So, for me to learn about the movies I actually had to seek the information out. The four books on sci-fi/horror/fantasy led me to books on Hitchcock, westerns, Bogart, etc. My father's interest in films helped pique my own, and we'd talk about it on a regular basis. I had to actively engage my mind and will to find this stuff out.

My eldest daughter, several years ago when I was giving her some lessons in Hitchcock, was sort of surprised to see that not all movies were just "movies". I pointed out the techniques that were being used onscreen. Pointed out the fact that the screenwriters added things like fore-shadowing and character shading. Little detail things. At one point she turned around and looked at me and said "So....movies can be like art, huh? That's cool."

Before that, they were just movies. Something to use as a backdrop for whatever else she was doing. Wallpaper for a friday night.
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post #10 of 19
9/25/07 at 10:45am
I think it's mostly been covered, but for me it is just a lack of quality that causes me to laugh at horror. I first saw the The Grudge and Saw at a friend's house and I just picked apart how terrible they were. A couple of my female friends said that they probably would have been scared were it not for me. When horror is poorly done, it just isn't scary to me and so I mock any cheap attempts at scares. Am I part of the problem? You tell me.
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post #11 of 19
9/25/07 at 11:00am
I don't think it's horror comedies that are to blame. Apart from the things mentioned above, there's the issue of general desensitisation to gruesome or horrific imagery. How are you supposed to take horror fiction seriously when you can laugh at the real stuff on sites like rotten.com?
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post #12 of 19
9/25/07 at 11:05am
It's not simply an issue of horror comedies doing damage. In fact, as has been noted, some of the greatest horror movies of all time-- American Werewolf, Evil Dead II, Re-Animator, etc.-- have vicious streaks of comedy running through them. At a fundamental level, however, most horror movies are doomed to be somewhat comedic. Part of that is a function of economics: underfunded movies tend to utilize cruddy actors and, given the delicate balance that horror movies have to walk to be effective, this can lead to unintentional hilarity. In addition, horror movies are often FX intensive works without the budget to actually pull off said effects. This can also be a source of unintentional hilarity. So, while I view the first Elm Street as a great horror movie, I can't help but smirk at the cheesiness of Freddy's awesome extend-o-arms. So, while I enjoy the first Friday the 13th, I can't help but smirk at Betsy Palmer squeaking, "Kill her, mommy, kill her." As a horror fan, you learn to ignore these things and suspend your prejudices (we've all done it a million times), but that doesn't make it easy for the casual moviegoer/horror-watcher. Thus, while I don't condone those people cutting up during Alex's viewing of Elm Street, I can sort of understand their mind set.
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post #13 of 19
9/25/07 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledork
Wallpaper for a friday night.
That sums up my post nicely and efficiently.
Quote:
How are you supposed to take horror fiction seriously when you can laugh at the real stuff on sites like rotten.com?
I think this is a big role in it (desensitivity). Not to mention all the tragedy this country's been through over the past decade. People use the cinema as a release and unfortunately the steam they let out isn't the kind us horror fans want from the douchebags sitting around us.

Don't forget the younger generation's inherent instinct to want to mock and ridicule the art/music/film of the generations that came before. "So lame!"...
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post #14 of 19
9/25/07 at 7:58pm
I'm inclined to agree with those who blame the audience, myself. Frankly, horror comedy's been around since Bride of Frankenstein, and the original Frakenstein had a fair bit of comedy in it.
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post #15 of 19
9/25/07 at 9:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by englebert
A couple of my female friends said that they probably would have been scared were it not for me.
I'm not sure that's a good thing. As I said above, though, I participate ina tradition of picking apart bad horror films around Halloween every year. But we all go into that event knowing that's what we're there to do. Films we've lambasted so far have ben: "Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things", "C.H.U.D." (not to be confused with our beloved CHUD), "The Deathmaster", "Beware the Blob", and my personal, how's-Jay-EVER-gonna-top-this favorite, "Blood Freak."

But to roast a film when not everyone's hip to that being the evening's MO has the potential to ruin the otherwise scary mood the others in the group may have wanted to enjoy.

On a side note, as Xag pointed out, there have been horror comedies for a long time. Abbott & Costello met all the Universal monsters from the 40's at least once. But I don't see filmgoers of that era laughing at the real thing. Kids today, however, may look at the original Bela Lugosi performance in "Dracula" and laugh, because it kind of seems over the top and hamy to us today, and has been lampooned ad nauseum in our culture. How many cartoons featured a "Bluh! Bluh!" Bela Lugosi imitating vampire character? Is the older generation's not finding this stuff funny, while young'ns today do the result of an intrinsic, generational lack of respect in general, for art and the good time of others, among other things, or the fact that 40's audiences didn't have a whole hell of a lot to compare the experience of these films to at that point?
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post #16 of 19
9/25/07 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by englebert
I think it's mostly been covered, but for me it is just a lack of quality that causes me to laugh at horror. I first saw the The Grudge and Saw at a friend's house and I just picked apart how terrible they were. A couple of my female friends said that they probably would have been scared were it not for me. When horror is poorly done, it just isn't scary to me and so I mock any cheap attempts at scares. Am I part of the problem? You tell me.
I would consider this to be part of the problem. If the intention is just friends getting together to watch movies, then it's disrespectful and worth an elbow in the face if you mock them the entire time and ruin everyone's time. If the intention is to get together to mock crappy flicks and everyone is into it, then go for it.
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post #17 of 19
9/25/07 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supremo
I would consider this to be part of the problem. If the intention is just friends getting together to watch movies, then it's disrespectful and worth an elbow in the face if you mock them the entire time and ruin everyone's time. If the intention is to get together to mock crappy flicks and everyone is into it, then go for it.
I didn't ruin anyone's time. We were boozing and the girls were cracking up.
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post #18 of 19
9/25/07 at 11:51pm
I rewatched THE EXORCIST recently and broke out laughing when the doctor said the girl insulted him with, "keep your fingers away from my goddamn cunt". Then they started the tests on the girl which kind of gave me chills, and the crucifix scene, and the spider-stairs. Then the priests came for the actual exorcism and it became funny again. I blame SCARY MOVIE 2.

Meanwhile finding out Jason and Freddy weren't scary was the biggest fucking disappointment of my childhood. My parents kept me away from those stupid fucking movies for nothing.
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post #19 of 19
9/26/07 at 4:43am
A riff on my earlier post: another point is that the nature of true horror requires that it be transgressive. But the boundaries of what constitutes transgressive have changed with each successive generation, and again, the internet has opened up whole new vistas for the current generation in this respect. But it's not just sites like rotten.com which are contributing to this, it's everywhere. It's hard to come up with really outrageous horror when you look at something like the footage of the people jumping out of the twin towers. That could have come right out of a horror film. There's plenty of other footage like this around.
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