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Miami Vice - Revisited

post #1 of 99
9/28/07 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 

I started watching the show years ago when TNN/Spike TV (whatever it was then) was airing re-runs in the morning, I believe. I managed to see a lot of episodes but missed most of season one and two. I caught the two (three?) parter where Crockett is hit by an explosion and wakes up to believe he is his undercover alias, Sonny Burnett. Man those were some good times. Especially when he killed that cop. The episode where he was forced to take a leave of absence and he took off to some hick town in Florida was hilarious. But that was in season 5 when the shows quality had taken a massive drop.

I'm currently going through the first season right now and damn if this wasn't a good show. I realize it was semi-cheese back when it premiered and it's cheese now but it's still pretty good. Some of the story lines are pretty dark and gritty.

The Ed O'Niel episode where he plays an FBI agent who turns is pretty good. The ending was quite a turn when they tell Crockett and Tubbs he hung himself because he couldn't take what he did.

The Bruce Willis wife beating episode was good (though hilarious just 'cause it's 80's non-popular Willis beating his wife). The Gina rape episode was unintentionally funny since it was Burt Young who raped her.

But it's the episode I'm on now... The Golden Triangle that's good. I don't think any show today would have killed the one young guy who was so close to being free. Vice is a pretty cynical show for it's time.

A-Team, MacGyver and Knight Rider were fun times and always had happy endings no matter how "gritty" or "dark" they tried being. Vice didn't seem to care. It's a shame the qaulity dropped off so drastically. Even Mann alluded to this in the commentary for the movie Miami Vice.

And just because... here's what made Vice famous: In the Air Tonight montage

Ah hell... some more cool Vice videos:

Crockett and Tubbs in a boat heading to meet Calderone This could have worked as a season or series finale of a thing too. That's if they had of decided to keep the Calderone angle open.

A great scene between Crockett and Tubbs with a great score from Jan Hammer

And the previously mentioned Bruce Willis bit.
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post #2 of 99
9/28/07 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan
[ I caught the two (three?) parter where Crockett is hit by an explosion and wakes up to believe he is his undercover alias, Sonny Burnett. Man those were some good times. Especially when he killed that cop.
Chris Cooper was the cop, if memory serves correct, which it better since I just watched that one about 2 weeks ago.

I've got all the seasons on disc and 1-3 I tore through at a record pace when they were released. 4 and 5 has been a bit of a struggle, and that's with skipping some here and there. I justed started 5, some of which I'd seen before in reruns, and I know once Crockett regains his memory I'm probably going to skip a bunch more.

At least the series finale is a return to form for the show. Looking forward to watching that one on disc. Nice turn by Ian Mcshane as a Noriega-like dictator.

I don't think it's quite as cheesy as other do. Yeah, now the clothes and most of the music seems silly but a lot of the storylines bucked the usual cop drama trends of the time.
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post #3 of 99
9/28/07 at 6:15pm
Yeah, people seem to forget the clothes were a reflection of trends at the time and the music was from the time as well.

The thing that was so great to me when it was on was the fact the cops lost, and the lost a lot. They didn't always get the bad guy, and sometimes even when they did they came out of it pretty fucked up.

My favorite ep though is the ninja episode.
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post #4 of 99
9/28/07 at 6:33pm
"Out Where the Buses Don't Run" is a great episode, and I seem the recall the voodoo episode (dwarf with a pickaxe) as pretty cool. Overall I think Crime Story was far superior, but I occasionally wax nostalgic for Vice and try to catch an episode on TVLand or wherever the hell it plays nowadays.
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post #5 of 99
9/28/07 at 6:37pm
Hard to pick a single favorite episode. Closest I could say would be the 2-parter early in the show's run where Crockett and Tubbs leave the country to go after Calderone. That was a doozy.

The feature length episode where they go to New York is great as well. Rip on Phil Collins all you want, but when Tubbs is running through the airport trying to catch a flight back to Miami to the tune of "Take Me Home" it is poetry in motion.
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post #6 of 99
9/28/07 at 8:33pm
Thread Starter 
Calderone's Return Parts 1 & 2 were pretty fantastic. The car chase seemed a little goofy especially when they're going around turns and you can hear Don Johnson going, "Whoa!" It played like a Benny Hill sketch but without the quirky music. But Tubbs blowing Calderone away at the end was great stuff.

I still can't get that boat scene that I posted above outta my head. The way it's shot is fantastic and the song is perfect. I like how Johnson looks at home driving the boat while P.M.T. looks scared shitless and that he's about to throw up.

And I like that they got rid of that other guy who played their commanding officer. Edward James Olmos was a great addition and what makes his character even better is how silent and calm he is until the Golden Triangle episodes where he just busts out some kung fu moves out of nowhere.
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post #7 of 99
9/28/07 at 8:39pm
When I first heard that song during the "boat scene" it was in my head forever. That scene also contains 1 of about 3,083 instances in which they have Tubbs flashback to his brother's murder.

I liked in the season 2 finale when they introduced John Leguizamo as Calderone's son, out for vengeance against Tubbs.

The only gripe is that they didn't really address the massive fallout of what Tubbs went through when season 3 started.

Gregory Sierra is a good actor, look no further than DEEP COVER to see that, but Olmos was a great choice to take over as Lt. Just the perfect antidote to the stereotypical loud police authority figure.
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post #8 of 99
9/28/07 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
Molt, do you know why John Diehl left the show? I know his character was killed off but I can't really remember when that happened or why. I think that was one of the first episodes I saw so I didn't think it was a big deal that he died.

And do you remember that episode where Crockett & Tubbs weren't in it and it was about these two younger cops trying to bring down some weenie high school drug lord? I remember I was confused as hell watching that episode and I didn't know who these two guys were.
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post #9 of 99
9/28/07 at 9:03pm
Diehl's character was killed off in the middle of the 3rd season. It was another 2-parter that revolved around criminal activity in the world of boxing. Big Shock! Don King guest starred.

I always like seeing Diehl pop up in stuff these days. Good character actor.

There were a couple episodes at the end of the last season that involved a young squad of cops. It was essentially a showcase for a "21 Jump Street"-like spinoff for those characters that thankfully never happened.
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post #10 of 99
9/28/07 at 9:19pm
Thread Starter 
His portrayal of Harley Earl was amazing.

I'm gonna go watch Part 2 of the Golden Triangle. MMA Castillo!
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post #11 of 99
9/28/07 at 9:53pm
That "boat scene" song is called 'Voices' by Russ Ballard. I remember liking that song before I saw the episode. I also recall a 4th or 5th season episode that featured "Dogs of War" by Pink Floyd.

By far the worst episode for me is the Trudy alien abduction/James Brown/peanut butter bit, followed closely by the one that involved Izzy, Gerrit Graham, Harry Shearer, and bull semen. And that '21 Jumpstreet'-vibed show featured a hammy performance by Keith Gordon.
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post #12 of 99
9/28/07 at 10:01pm
Thread Starter 
Noogie is one of the worst and most annoying TV characters ever to be created. Izzy is a close second.
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post #13 of 99
9/29/07 at 9:58am
Another of my favorite bits was when Crockett is explaining to the singer he married about his life and the fact that he doesn't even own the clothes on his back since everything he has is a part of his cover. Kind of drives home the fact that Crockett would probably rather be in shorts and t-shirts than Armani.

Also, the ep where Crockett helps free a murdered. The end scene where he confronts the guy down on some island and just shoots him has always stuck with me.
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post #14 of 99
9/29/07 at 11:15am
Brendan, Miami Vice and MacGyver could have serious storylines, but The A-Team, and Knight Rider were exciting, funny, filled with action (car chases, bar fights, and catchy one liners) but never gritty.
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post #15 of 99
9/29/07 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Noogie is one of the worst and most annoying TV characters ever to be created. Izzy is a close second.
Noogie for sure. Utterly horrible and about the only aspect of the first season that I don't like.

But how can you not like Izzy? He's great. More often than not he brought just the right amount of humor to the proceedings. Liked that actor too. Izzy is world's apart from his other famous role, lawyer eaten on the toilet in JURASSIC PARK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Moore
Another of my favorite bits was when Crockett is explaining to the singer he married about his life and the fact that he doesn't even own the clothes on his back since everything he has is a part of his cover. Kind of drives home the fact that Crockett would probably rather be in shorts and t-shirts than Armani.

Also, the ep where Crockett helps free a murdered. The end scene where he confronts the guy down on some island and just shoots him has always stuck with me.
That was a great moment, and having Hackman (the freed killer) murder Crockett's wife and unborn child made all those Sheena Easton episodes somewhat worth it.

Though watching season 4 there was an aspect to Crockett's marriage that bugged me a bit. He marries Sheena Easton. They have a medium sized wedding in which everyone in attendance knows that it is Crockett the cop who is getting married. But then they had an episode where some of Sheena Easton's sleazy record producers believe Sonny Crockett is really Sonny Burnett the drug dealer and try to do business with him. That didn't compute for me.
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post #16 of 99
9/29/07 at 2:56pm
Don't forget Izzie's other great film role as the man who sells the explosives to Val Kilmer in Heat.
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post #17 of 99
9/29/07 at 3:06pm
It's too bad he along with most of the other "Vice" players, save for Olmos and Diehl, have fallen off the face of the Earth. At least Gina popped up a few times as Tony Soprano's neighbor, and as the twin sister of Tony Soprano's neighbor.
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post #18 of 99
9/29/07 at 5:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
But how can you not like Izzy? He's great. More often than not he brought just the right amount of humor to the proceedings. Liked that actor too. Izzy is world's apart from his other famous role, lawyer eaten on the toilet in JURASSIC PARK.
Eaten by a dino just like John Diehl in Jurassic Park III.

Martin Ferrero (Izzy) also shows up in Crime Story and yes, Heat. He also guest starred on Nash Bridges. I just found Izzy's accent to be annoying more then anything. It was such a stereotypical Hispanic accent.
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post #19 of 99
9/29/07 at 6:59pm
At least Izzy's accent was played up for comedic purposes. His accent was almost normal compared to a lot of the bad guys that would show up, especially Joe Polito as "El Gato" during the episodes where Sonny believed he was a dealer.

Best Izzy moment was when he was some sort of outdoor lounge singer for a bunch of senior citizens during the great "Viking Bikers From Hell" episode.

I remember a few weeks back I was watching one where Crockett is shot at the beginning at goes into a coma. The rest of the show finds the other cast members staying with Sonny in the hospital and thinking back, with the help of many clips, to the moments where Sonny helped them most. I've always wondered if this was the inspiration for that "Simpsons" episode where Homer is in the hospital and they just show a bunch of clips.
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post #20 of 99
9/30/07 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Hey Molt, can you tell me more about that episode of Vice that was never aired during it's original run? They waited until almost a year after the show finished to air it. Didn't it deal with some child prostitute or something? I know Pam Grier returned as her character from that first season episode. I remember seeing it and thinking it was a pretty ballsy episode for the time.
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post #21 of 99
9/30/07 at 1:19pm
I've actually never seen that "missing" episode with Grier. I always liked the other times Grier showed up, especially the first one she did where John Turturro was the pimp who killed her sister.

I'm just starting to go through season 5 and a lot of them I have seen already and won't feel like revisiting so I'm looking forward to that last Grier episode. According to Wiki, it never aired on NBC because "due to its graphic content and a plot vividly involving child molestation, which at the time was considered unsuitable even for nighttime television."

Mainly the only reasons I grabbed the last season were for the following:

1. That Grier episode.
2. The episode with Michael Chiklis. It's a shitty one but watching Chiklis as some sort of cop whose expertise involves crimes dealing with fine art is a hoot.
3. The feature-length finale which is fairly kickass.
4. I had the other 4, so what the hell.

Here's a couple clips of note:

Crockett shooting Hackman on that island, as was discussed before. Note that Hackman isn't quite unarmed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iAqOtgxIK...elated&search=

Opening to an episode in which Lou Diamond Phillips and Viggo Mortensen play a couple of young hot shot cops:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eyE2PSg-bCw

That scene of Izzy as the lounge singer:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LSiIwOBq65Q

Michael Chiklis in a dress:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AoAjbK-b0ug
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post #22 of 99
9/30/07 at 2:32pm
Yeah, when I found it on YouTube I saw the gun in his hand. I wonder if that was added to make it not such a bad thing that Crockett killed him?
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post #23 of 99
9/30/07 at 3:21pm
That's my guess. Still a cool scene but it doesn't make Crockett quite as cold-blooded as he would be if Hackman wasn't packing heat. I wonder if that scene would have played a bit different if Michael Mann had been more hands-on during that era of the show instead of Dick Wolf.

Here's a scene that I always see as an example of how unconventional the show was early on. It's from the second season opener in New York in which Crockett and Tubbs get a lesson in banking from that creepy guy from one of the POLTERGEIST movies or, as one clever youtube comment describes him, the real-life Mr. Burns:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aEkHTgCm36U
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post #24 of 99
9/30/07 at 3:38pm
Yeah, I have a feeling the gun came from either Wolf or NBC. Somehow I see Mann saying no, he's gonna be a bastard this time (This is still the guy who in Crime Story's first ep had the hero tell a crook "I'm gonna find out what you love the most and kill it.")

But that scene you put in there Molti is great. The whole show has scenes like that. One of the signs to me it truly is a great show, when you can just go through and find tons and tons of great bits.
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post #25 of 99
9/30/07 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
Here's a scene that I always see as an example of how unconventional the show was early on. It's from the second season opener in New York in which Crockett and Tubbs get a lesson in banking from that creepy guy from one of the POLTERGEIST movies or, as one clever youtube comment describes him, the real-life Mr. Burns:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aEkHTgCm36U
Jesus, Tubbs has more money than Philip Michael Thomas.

And the gun being put in the guys hand does seem a little weird since he says, "you wouldn't kill an unarmed man." BANG! Then Crockett says, "wrong". That doesn't make sense to say "wrong" if the guy was armed. Unless Crockett didn't see the gun? But it still doesn't make sense because then it doesn't matter if Crockett didn't see the gun. He still would have shot the guy thinking and believing he was unarmed.

Thinking about it now it does make sense that the network put in their to not make Crockett a cold blooded killer. But him saying, "wrong" is what messes everything up.
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post #26 of 99
9/30/07 at 6:09pm
I'm thinking that Crockett's "wrong" meant that unarmed or not, at that moment Crockett was dead set on killing Hackman. I just like the way that scene is played visually with Crockett looking like a walking shadow until he steps in front of the sun. Even the schmaltzy Sheena Easton song sounds pretty good as he walks away.

Crockett and Willie Nelson beat up Steve Busecmi.

Holy shit! I've never seen this before (at least I can't recall it). Don Johnson and Glenn Frey shill for Pepsi:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0HByh60JA...elated&search=

Guess Phillip Michael Thomas had too much artistic integrity to be a part of that.
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post #27 of 99
9/30/07 at 7:55pm
Loved this show when I was little, I'm trying to find some of the episodes that I remember vaguely.

One had Tubbs going to meet this old friend of his, an artist dude, at his big villa, the guy goes nuts or something and locks Tubbs in the house. Tubbs has to kill the guy in the end, Crockett was mainly absent from this if I remember correctly.

Another had the duo investigating the death of this sportsman (he played the game that's shown in the opening sequence, a dude is throwing a ball with a thingie, what the game called anyway?)

Thanks in advance.
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post #28 of 99
9/30/07 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
Guess Phillip Michael Thomas had too much artistic integrity to be a part of that.
And yet he had the audacity to cut an album. I guess integrity goes only so far.
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post #29 of 99
9/30/07 at 8:39pm
Let's compare Thomas and Johnson's musical abilities:

Easy with the chest hair, Tubbs.

Could you sing with a bit more intensity, Don?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wwarez
Loved this show when I was little, I'm trying to find some of the episodes that I remember vaguely.

One had Tubbs going to meet this old friend of his, an artist dude, at his big villa, the guy goes nuts or something and locks Tubbs in the house. Tubbs has to kill the guy in the end, Crockett was mainly absent from this if I remember correctly.

Another had the duo investigating the death of this sportsman (he played the game that's shown in the opening sequence, a dude is throwing a ball with a thingie, what the game called anyway?)

Thanks in advance.
The second one you describe I knew right off the bat. It's called "Killshot" and was from the 3rd season. The sport depicted is called jai-alai.

The first one I had look up. It's from the final season which I'm not as well versed in. It's called "The Cell Within." Here's the description:

Quote:
Tubbs is invited to a party by an ex-convict-turned-author whom he'd sent to prison, but is instead taken prisoner and treated to demonstrations of the man's new personal views on justice.
I'm looking forward to this one, as it appears John P. Ryan plays the guy who captures Tubbs. That should equal good times.
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post #30 of 99
9/30/07 at 10:54pm
Thread Starter 
Here's the shorter 30 second Pepsi commercial that I saw a few years ago.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2J0SPSlGX...elated&search=

That longer one, Molt.... wow. It was hard to sit through that.
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post #31 of 99
10/1/07 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
One of the best quotes of the series:

Switek enters the Bug van with food while Zito is hitting on some girl

Switek: You want some lunch?
Zito: What are you doing?
Switek: I'm pitching.
Zito: Can't you see that I'm pitching?
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post #32 of 99
10/1/07 at 6:51pm
If you go to youtube and search under "Miami Vice True Hollywood" you'll see that the "Miami Vice: True Hollywood Story" is posted in 5 parts. Pretty good stuff. All the interviews are fairly recent, with the exception of Mann and Don Johnson who only show up in old interviews.

Turns out it was John Diehl's decision to leave the show. I always figured killing him off was done to mix things up a bit. Not so according to him, he just wanted to move on.

Oh yeah, and Olmos is pretty candid about how he clashed with Johnson early on.
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post #33 of 99
10/1/07 at 8:15pm
It's funny that Olmos said he never looked at Johnson for a good 7 or 8 episodes. Who knew it was because they had real heat?
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post #34 of 99
10/1/07 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 
I remember seeing that E! True Hollywood story and Olmos talking about the disputes between him and Johnson didn't really come as a shock. Johnson is an egotistical prick, has been and will continue to be and Olmos seems like the type of actor who wouldn't put up with that kind of shit. I think it's great that despite them not really getting along they came across great together on screen and you would never really have thought they hated each other by watching the show.

I just finished the season one episode where Crockett and Co. investigate some home invasions with the help of Crockett's old mentor. I'm really glad they didn't make his mentor or any other cops involved in the robberies. That would have hurt the episode quite a lot but as it stands, it's a pretty solid episode. No Tubbs though but he was off in New York. Which I guess comes into play in the season finale.
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post #35 of 99
10/1/07 at 10:17pm
I don't recall much coming from Tubbs in New York at the end of the first season. It's the opener of season 2 that's heavily centered in New York.

I can totally see Johnson being an ego-maniac during "Vice's" run. But at least, as that "True Hollywood" special mentions, he threw Thomas a bone by putting him on "Nash Bridges" a couple times. Though that was a shitty show.

It must have driven Johnson nuts that Olmos was the only cast member to get an Emmy for the program.
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post #36 of 99
10/1/07 at 10:37pm
I was always a fan of the two-parter where we first got some info on Castillo's history as a DEA agent in Asia. The one where his supposedly dead wife shows back up. I think it was "Golden Triangle".

I caught the Tubs-centric episode where he goes to dinner with the allegedly reformed criminal, who actually is taking out bizarre vigilante justice on people he believes to be sinners the other day. He had an elaborate dungeon set up in his basement. That was weird. It guest starred Maria Pitillo as the world's dumbest hooker.
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post #37 of 99
10/1/07 at 10:46pm
I watched one last night that was so-so but made memorable for the fact that Tony Sirico guest starred. Guess what he played? A mafioso! Could have knocked me over with a feather.
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post #38 of 99
10/1/07 at 10:50pm
Thread Starter 
Nash Bridges was like the CSI: Miami of the 90's. Totally over the top and cheesy as hell. I always loved how Nash would blow away like 15 guys in one episode and never get reprimanded for it. In one episode he was telling his daughter how it's hard to live with killing a man. You'd think Nash would have had a mental breakdown with the 200+ guys he killed during the shows six year run. Plus I love how the SIU offices were set on an empty barge. I remember the one episode where a pal of Nash's stole the barge. Good times!

Plus Evan shooting one of his testicles off was great. Then there was the episode where Evan and Harvey stood out in the open and took out about 15 mercenaries that were coming out of nowhere and dropping down from trees on zip lines. And in one episode Nash blew up an airplane with a bazooka. And then there was that time where Nash and Joe single handedly took out about 15 karate fighting Asians by using his hands and some conveniently placed chairs.

Yeah, it was a great show.

I'm also the proud owner of this:



I've seen them go for close to $45 (U.S.) on eBay. I managed to snipe mine good.
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post #39 of 99
10/1/07 at 11:01pm
I don't think I watched more than the pilot for "Nash" which was enough for me. I know Cary Tagawa was a regular early on, maybe he clashed with Johnson and was fired. I'm just making stuff up now.

Anybody ever snag these?



I didn't. Probably would have if they weren't so big and ugly looking.
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post #40 of 99
10/1/07 at 11:04pm
Thread Starter 
When did Mr. T play Tubbs?
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post #41 of 99
10/1/07 at 11:33pm
I think it looks a bit like they shaved Lt. Worf.
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post #42 of 99
10/1/07 at 11:41pm
Bridges wanted to be Vice, but it fell fall short. IIRC Johnson had the choice between Nash Bridges and a Michael Mann-produced cop show, Off Duty. Despite Bridges' long run, he chose poorly.
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post #43 of 99
10/2/07 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
Hard to pick a single favorite episode. Closest I could say would be the 2-parter early in the show's run where Crockett and Tubbs leave the country to go after Calderone. That was a doozy.

The feature length episode where they go to New York is great as well. Rip on Phil Collins all you want, but when Tubbs is running through the airport trying to catch a flight back to Miami to the tune of "Take Me Home" it is poetry in motion.
Here you go Molti, enjoy.
Poetry in motion indeed.
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post #44 of 99
10/2/07 at 12:33am
The Grier/Thomas footsie is the stuff of legends.
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post #45 of 99
10/2/07 at 11:37am
I do have to say the Barracuda in person was pretty sweet. We saw them filming in San Francisco one time and the guy driving the Cudda pulled up to us as we were in the street car. Very nice.

I remember reading a story on the development of Bridges it was supposed to be more NYPD blue and then Johnson just went off the rails on what he wanted the show to be.
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post #46 of 99
10/2/07 at 11:45am
I remember two things about Nash Bridges.

1. The cretators of Homicide weren't necessarily bitching about that show but highlighting the fact that Bridges was kicking their ass ratings wise (See the PBS documentary on the Subway episode about this)

2. That Hunter S. Thompson apparently co-created the show.

Also Brian Michael Bendis once did a comic about what if Elvis had lived at the end of the comic he ends up in the role he was born to play, that of Nash Bridges.

Oh yeah and Stone Cold Steve Austin played a supporting role.
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post #47 of 99
10/2/07 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
The Grier/Thomas footsie is the stuff of legends.
Pure sex, glad I could find it for you, and I. Those white dress shoes on Thomas, so GQ.
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post #48 of 99
10/2/07 at 5:13pm
I know way too much about Nash Bridges than I should. Stone Cold was only in a few eps as a bounty hunter.

Something else I remember about the show is Jan Michael Vincent played Nash's brother, but I Guess because of his screwed up face they only showed him in the shadows for his main scene.
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post #49 of 99
10/2/07 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 
Wow. "Evan" is probably my favourite episode of Vice right now. The gas station scene was great and Johnson was terrific there. The ending with that song (rico?) playing over it was fantastic. This show continues to surprise me. When I think the typically cliched part will happen they do the opposite. Up next: season one finale!
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post #50 of 99
10/2/07 at 7:53pm
I think Dennis Farina is in the finale, pretty sure that's the second time he showed up that season.

"Evan" is a good one. Nice turns from William "Father from Boy Meets World and AMERICAN HISTORY X" Russ and that odd guy with the chainsaw from SCARFACE.
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