Fat Acceptance

Fat acceptance? Fat chance! That's my motto, by gum!

As the rate of not just the obese but the unhealthily overweight in general goes up we need to fight back against this mentality even more. People want to feel good about themselves no matter what they're doing, but fuck that. These guys need to be humiliated thin. We may have a cultural sickness with overcompensation that leads to eating disorders, but it's going even worse in the other direction.

Is Kate Harding a Chewer?

I've read what you've posted about your experiences with weight loss, Spike, and I'm impressed. I hope you are able to keep the weight off and be healthy.

I've got some fat friends, though, women who probably eat no more than lil' ol' me and who easily weigh a hundred pounds more than me (5'3", 135 lbs, fwiw). One friend in particular goes to roller derby practice twice a week, does yoga, works as a housekeeper, and makes all of her meals from scratch, but she's still a big girl. I think, maybe, the main thrust of the "fat acceptance" (not fat championing movement, note) philosophy is to help lovely ladies like my friend accept their size and feel beautiful (because she is) while they work to eat healthy and exercise.

I think that fat acceptance is a reasonable backlash against the way our culture likes to scrutinize women's bodies (men's, too, of course, but there's a smaller range of ways in which women can look and still be considered beautiful in western society), though I do worry that people who could change their lifestyles and make themselves healthier will use it as a way to hide from what they need to do to take care of themselves.

I disagree with most of her diatribe, but the BMI can be utter shit in some people's cases. According to the BMI I was overweight and nearing obesity when I came out of boot camp (6' 0'' 205 lbs, 7-8% body fat). If I were to weigh what the BMI suggested, I'd look like Karen Carpenter.

I have a friend who went from 350 lbs to 425 lbs when his wife tried to shame him thin. He claims the "stress and guilt" from the shamings drove him to binge eating whenever he managed to sneak from her sight.

He already has diabetes and a newborn child. I told him, at that weight, he better not get used to the idea of attending his daughter's high school graduation.

fat people have a built in chainsaw defense mechanism. Something i admire. Plus i feel better about myself when i stand next to a fat person.

I'm not fat, and I'm usually fairly bothered by fat males, mostly because they sweat a lot and breathe too loud.

Fat women I am totally fine with.

Just out of curiosity, does the word "fat" equal the word "obese" (the medical definition) in this discussion?

Fat seems like a relative term, where everyone might have a different image in mind.

"Fat" becomes "obese" at about the point you look at a person and go "damn, have some fucking self-respect"

Women who weigh more than 120 are fat.

Fat people should be treated with the same respect that non-fats are. Of course they should lose some fucking weight as well, but being fat does not allow the rest of the world to be rude to you. At least it shouldn't.

....no matter their height.

There's so many areas to stick it in! It doesn't matter if you miss because you'll still arrive.

I have absolutely no problem with fat girls. I love fat girls. Fat curvy girls with big boobs and big stomachs and big asses are awesome.

Fat guys, on the other hand, aren't so great.

I'd like to chime in as someone who is fat but trying not to be (300 to 265 in the last five months). Whenever someone asks me what made me want to start losing weight they get one of two answers. The truth, I want to get laid more often and maybe live past sixty. Or the comedy (and still kind of true), I just want to be able to make fun of fat people. Brings the house down. It's fine if your happy with being fat, but don't expect anyone else to be happy with your overindulgence and laziness.

My wife is what many would consider "fat", and she eats healthier than I do. She works out more than I do. She lives a far more active life than I do. She's still fat, and it pisses me off when people give her shit about it. Hell, I've grown up with fat people and almost all of them have taken far better care of themselves than I do - and I'm a scrawny fuck!

I've been able too live for months on nothing but soda and potato chips and managed to stick around the 125lb mark while generally being a lazy slob and working with computers all day. People simply have differing body chemistries.

Health is the real issue here. Fuck the cosmetic reasons. A person should be able to be comfortable with how they look and stop striving for the so-called "perfection" that's pounded into our heads from youth. Hell, fat girls get laid as much as thin girls - no matter how disgusting you may or may not look, there's always some guy that'll sport some wood for them. Health is more important, and as long as somebody is aware of health issues and tries their best to take care of themselves... there's no reason to "shame" them. It's self righteous crap and no better than those assholes who think all Jews are greedy, all blacks steal and all Arabs are terrorists.

The point is, the people you want to fuck don't fuck fat people. That's why they're the people you want to fuck.

So do you find your wife disgusting? Do you wish she was thinner? I'm not asking that to be mean, it's just that I can't tell from your post.

I know some great looking fat girls, they have gorgeous faces and hey, alright. But holy hell, I know some damn ugly fat girls, and so then there's no appeal whatsoever. As Quagmire said, "Fat chicks need lovin', too. They gotta pay, but they need lovin'."

I will chime in and say the whole BMI is utter crap. It's like the student/teacher ratio at a college. How many students we got? How may teachers? Let's just divide them into one another!

However, not everyone can have a glandular problem. No way, no how.

Yeah, no one wants to be in a "I tried to scream, but alls I got was a mouth full of flab" situation.

Yeah, height means nothing. You're retarded. My girlfriend is 5'10", weighs more than 120, and would be considered rather skinny by any standards. In fact, she almost died of anorexia in her teens. So you can fuck RIGHT off.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Big Jim Slade again.

I'll just chalk up what Devin said as another bomb throw to just stir shit up.

No, I don't. Yes, there are some fat women who I find repulsive, but there are some that are stunningly gorgeous as well. It has more to do with attitude for me, really. The types who bemoan their weight problems and then eat two buckets of KFC for solace are typically ugly people, both inside and out. The ones who are comfortable with themselves and don't obsess over it tend to have a an alluring glow about them. My wife falls into the latter category. If I found her repulsive, I would not have married her.

Also, I tend to find lack of intelligence and/or self respect to be far greater a turnoff than weight.

Nobody hears "big is beautiful" and tries to scarf twinkies till they're hot. And while the loathing yourself thin approach may have worked for you, for a lot of people having self esteem is the first step towards improving themselves. Besides, a lot of people have to live with weight. And even those that don't but are just too physically lazy to do anything about it don't deserve to be called failures at life. Your inner fatty needs to get a fucking grip.

edit- to fix the stupid redundancy you will see quoted below anyway.

Yes, the "failure at life" comment is overly harsh, not to mention disgustingly shallow. Is that how you're supposed to measure your worth? I mean, you could create great art, be a proponent of peace, bring happiness to many people... but if you have a fat ass you're a failure? Jesus!

Of course you're a failure, and I say that as a fat guy. Being fat is disgusting and avoidable. Period.

Christ Spike, lighten up. This is the sort of comment that fucks people up, and you're being incredibly irresponsible in making it.

Live and let live man.

As a former fatty who lost and kept the weight off I sort of see where he's coming from, though. You really grow to become disgusted with what you were, especially when it becomes so clear that it was something that you were doing to yourself the whole time. There's no one else to blame. Nobody is making you eat. Nobody is making you be a couch potato. Nobody is preventing you from exercising.

The culpability begins and ends with you (obviously I'm not talking about medical conditions here) and when you work your ass off (in my case, quite literally), your world view changes considerably. It's very frustrating seeing people make the same mistakes you made but taking no steps to correct them.

Maybe so, but calling them failures and despicable is not cool, and completely counter-productive.

Spike may have been a bit harsh with the manner in which he put it, but he is correct. I'm a fat ass myself and there really is nothing worse...it IS avoidable, preventable and you CAN do something about it, as difficult as it may be to do so, but if you don't you are greatly shortening both the length and quality of your life. Any kind of "Fat Acceptance" movement is based more on laziness and/or ignorance, ultimately.

But is making someone feel guilty/lazy/inferior because they are overweight really the way to help?

That really says it all. You two share the feelings because you were fat. Others of us aren't quite so fucked up about the issue. No disrespect, everyone has their prejudices and biases, but it does not reflect a rational view of the matter. Nobody's perfect. There are far worse things to be than fat, and far worse things that people do to themselves than eat too much. And there is just not enough time in the day to censure everyone who overeats, smokes, drinks too much, uses drugs heavily or listens to Fallout Boy. Although I do reserve some time for that last one.

what the article seems to be saying, though, has absolutely no bearing on what Spike is ranting about. I'm a slob myself, and should do something about it, but the article specifically points out, it seems to me, that people tend to conflate "fat" people together and find them repulsive as a norm, and this is extremely damaging to those people who, no matter their lifestyle, are bigger than the rest. I know I feel pretty humiliated when I have to try on new clothes, run any short distance for whatever reason, climb huge staircases, etc. Some people can really bring on the shame as well with their comments. I can't imagine how much worse it would be for me if I wasn't to blame for it. condescending and humiliating shit like what spike is spewing doesn't help.

Being called a failure at life for weight problems isn't an insult on you personally. It just means the coyotes have a higher chance of running you down while the rest of the herd hightails it.

I won't deny that it's certainley a very personal bias, but it isn't one that was created in a vaccum.

I don't hate fat people. God knows I can more than sympathize with what they go through every day. It's hard knowing you're being talked about wherever you go, and there are just ridiculous self-esteem issues that go along with it. It's honestly no way to live, and it's a fucking miserable existence. A much more miserable existence than I think many people who don't have the problem understand.

But that said, the sympathy I have only goes so far when I realize that it isn't a problem that can't be cured. It isn't a birth defect (again, not talking about medical scenarios) or an incurable curse. There are methods to get it under control. And at a certain point, it sort of turns from sympathy into disdain, especially when I hear people bitching about their weight. Thats the real killer for me. If you don't like it, do something.

People should be HEALTHY and perhaps more importantly, happy. And as several people in this thread have pointed out, a cursory glance into the gossip thread can prove, and despite the ramblings of the Bearded Thread Menace, healthy doesn't always equal thin, by any means.

Quick judgemental prick test: Imagine that scene in Groundhog Day where Bill Murray's at breakfast, and goes all Jabba the Hutt on a cream puff.

Got that image there?

Now imagine he's about 200 pounds heavier. Is it more, less, or just as disgusting?

Take your time.

She blogs about fat acceptance, but what about fat joke acceptance? Is she OK with that?

Speaking as something of a fitness and nutrition nut, I'd like to say that I always look upon fat/heavy people at the gym in a very positive light. I don't look down upon or insult anyone who is making a concerted effort either maintain a healthy lifestyle or effect a lifestyle change. I'm sure there are people who do, but frankly...they're not worth a moment of your concern.

On the other hand, the quoted text in the original post...I'm pretty sure America's health problem isn't that skinny, fit people are driving up our collective healthcare costs. Nor do I think we have scores of super-fit hefty people out there. We're a sedentary, crap-eating society, and I'd love to see that change.

Actually I'm not against "fat acceptance," but against fat whining. If people want to weigh 350 pounds and love themselves and die at 45, that's their right. I'm more annoyed by people who are fat, loathe themselves for being fat, and don't have the willpower to change themselves. I was overweight in my teens and worked hard to get down to a weight that made me feel good about myself. I can't really respect people who whine all the time but can't manage to exert any effort to do something about it.

I think most people want others to feel motivated for positive change (whether it be to stop smoking, eat better, exercise more, etc).

And in most cultures, that seems to mean alienation, ostracizing, guilt, humiliation, and general uncoolness. That's how we used to shame people out of unwanted pregnancies, it's how we do shame people out of smoking, and it's how we are trying to shame people into eating better, exercising, recycling, and conserving energy and water.

Personally, I recycle because I feel guilty throwing recyclables away. Sadly, I don't feel as guilty when I don't workout or when I eat wrong, although I am less likely to eat poorly and fail to exercise if I have an accountability partner.

Of course, this cultural phenomenon backfires by causing guilt-ridden depression and anxiety resulting in inactivity, overeating, chain smoking...

So, no, I don't think it's a good thing, although I do think it's a pervasive thing.

I think it's like anything else...people respond to different incentives. Some people do well with positive reinforcement, some people do better with the opposite.

I'm not a supporter of the 'big is beautiful' but your statement is as equally stupid/despicable as it. Have some fucking perspective.

I'm a bit confused as to how "fat acceptance" talks about "obesity" and "eating crap and not exercising" being not synonymous, and then claiming that diets don't work for a vast majority of people. I don't believe in trendy fad diets (Atkins, South Beach), but there's legitimacy in dieting, in the sense that you're eating healthier with more reasonable portions. I've known tons of "fat" (whatever that means) people who have switched up their eating habits and exercised regularly and kept the weight off for years.

What's more, a lot of that blog entry seems to be angry at thin people that eat crap and don't exercise. Ok, that's fine. But fit people who take the time to watch what they eat and exercise regularly? Why be angry at people who spend the time and energy to stay in shape, when you're saying that it's useless for some/many "fat" people to even try?

And I don't hate people for their own good. I hate people because I hate people.

If you want to kill yourself by eating, go right ahead. I'll buy your next supersize. What pisses me off is fat parents off loading their unhealthy practices on their kids. To me, that ranks up there with child abuse.

It's a complicated, delicate issue. But, in extreme cases, I don't think it ranks up there with child abuse, it is child abuse.

Fixed. Plus, the fat zombies (that result from this) move even slower still and are easier to avoid/kill. It's a win-win in our fight for survival in the upcoming apocalypse.

Wow, this sounds so full of bullshit. I'd love to see some data backing this up...

1. Weight itself is not a health problem, except in the most extreme cases (i.e., being underweight or so fat you’re immobilized). In fact, fat people live longer than thin people and are more likely to survive cardiac events, and some studies have shown that fat can protect against “infections, cancer, lung disease, heart disease, osteoporosis, anemia, high blood pressure, rheumatoid arthritis and type 2 diabetes.” Yeah, you read that right: even the goddamned diabetes. Now, I’m not saying we should all go out and get fat for our health (which we wouldn’t be able to do anyway, because no one knows how to make a naturally thin person fat any more than they know how to make a naturally fat person thin; see point 4), but I’m definitely saying obesity research is turning up surprising information all the time — much of which goes ignored by the media — and people who give a damn about critical thinking would be foolish to accept the party line on fat. Just because you’ve heard over and over and over that fat! kills! doesn’t mean it’s true. It just means that people in this culture really love saying it.

I'm not sure if it's as bad as child abuse, but there's about as much self-righteousness as there is in the actual thread about child abuse.

As pointed out in the quote that Spike posted (repeatedly - I'm convinced that most of you didn't read it), being overweight often doesn't have a direct corollary to nutritious eating. It's entirely possible to eat healthy food and get plenty of exercise and still be bigger.

Considering how many of you participated in those heart attack-inducing fast food and chain restaurant threads and admitted to eating at those places multiple times a week, I'm not ready to buy the kneejerk "fat is unhealthy" arguments being tossed around here. I don't care how skinny you are; eating that shit is unhealthy. Simply being fat... well, I don't know, but could it be that Harding has actually done some research and isn't just making excuses?

As for her saying that "diets don't work," I took this more as a criticism of diets that target specific food groups or have short-term goals in mind. Naturally, the only diet that really works long-term is eat less, eat healthier, and exercise more. But that's not really a diet so much as common sense.

I just googled Gina Kolata, Paul Campos, and J. Eric Oliver, the first three references she listed, and it sounds like, to some degree or another, they'd agree with what she wrote - I assume that's where you'd find your hard data. Campos and Oliver seem to hit the obesity problem from a political science background; Kolata writes about science for the New York Times, so I'm guessing she has some scientific cred.

In any case, just from reading the basic descriptions of their books on the subject, Campos and Oliver seem to consider a lot of what we think about obesity to be propaganda by the weight-loss industry, and everyone here seems pretty eager to buy it on face value. This might be worth some examination, since I can certainly buy that big corporations like Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers have a lot to gain from an irrational fear of fat.