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Beyond the UN.

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
This is something that I've wanted to discuss for quite a while.

Along the way to the current war in Iraq and during every crisis since, a lot of talk has been made about the "obsolescence" and "corruption" of the UN. In every major humanitarian crisis of the last decade "Where is the UN" is one of the first things you hear, especially from the US.

Assuming the UN's obsolescence, what are your opinions on the organization that's to take its place? As has become apparent in the last few years the US haven't the strength or the legitimization to turn into "Globocop" as Time once put it. So what should happen? The UN as is now are totally dependent on their member states to provide manpower and material for any intervention. Would an actual standing autonomous UN army provide a solution or would it lead to bigger problems down the road?

And what about national sovereignty? Should there be a mechanism in place to provide the UN with the ability to quickly declare a government illegitimate with regards to international law and try to intervene? The one in place right now seems awfully slow. By the time something can be done about, say, a civil war, tens of thousands of civilians can die. Should the UN be able, as governments are, to declare "martial law" in a region, regardless of that region's government? Remember that while it may be easy to say yes to the above when another country is concerned, what if during Katrina for example, such an organization said to the US government "You're messing this up. Back of we're taking over"?

Forgive me if this post seems preachy or antagonistic. This is not my intent. I really would like your opinions on this.
post #2 of 10
Good questions, Stelios. In theory, an empowered UN sounds like a great salve for a lot of problems in the world, but on the other hand, human nature is so untrustworthy.
post #3 of 10
Good and important questions indeed, Sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
The UN as is now are totally dependent on their member states to provide manpower and material for any intervention. Would an actual standing autonomous UN army provide a solution or would it lead to bigger problems down the road?
On an interesting side note, there is actually a provision that enables the UN to set up a quasi-autonomous army, Art. 47 UN-Charter.

Alas, this never saw the light of day as intended due to cold war.

Here is a link to the oh-so-ever-reliable wikipedia, cause they can recap it better than me in my poor english:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Staff_Committee
post #4 of 10
[QUOTE=stelios]Would an actual standing autonomous UN army provide a solution or would it lead to bigger problems down the road?QUOTE]

I doubt an autonomous UN army would ever work. Different nations would disagree on the the number of troops countries need to contribute, the nationality of the general, soldiers' ultimate loyalty to their country or the UN, etc. There are just too many factors that need to click for such an army to work properly.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Travolta
Good and important questions indeed, Sir.



On an interesting side note, there is actually a provision that enables the UN to set up a quasi-autonomous army, Art. 47 UN-Charter.

Alas, this never saw the light of day as intended due to cold war.

Here is a link to the oh-so-ever-reliable wikipedia, cause they can recap it better than me in my poor english:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Staff_Committee
That is very interesting. Thanks a lot.

It would surely be a colossal task, setting up the framework for such an organization. If one was successfully set up though, would that make you feel safer or would it trouble you?
post #6 of 10
I've always believed that one day NATO (or some other multi-national military organization) would become the defacto UN standing army. The problem as yt already stated is human nature. No country wants to be the first to put up its own countrymen/women and then not get the same level the of commitment from other foreign states. It would involve a level of trust that most people wouldn't find agreeable.
post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
It would surely be a colossal task, setting up the framework for such an organization. If one was successfully set up though, would that make you feel safer or would it trouble you?
I think the answer to that question is too closely related to the other issues you have put up though to simply say yes or no.
Because if you would succeed setting up a functioning "army" under that provision, it would ultimately still be under the power of the security council which would leave us with the same problems, especially the veto power.
Otherwise it could go either way of the argument world-government vs. the (dangerous) concept of huminitarian intervention on behalf of the international community.
There are a lot of shades of grey there.
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt
Good questions, Stelios. In theory, an empowered UN sounds like a great salve for a lot of problems in the world, but on the other hand, human nature is so untrustworthy.
It also depends on what country/countries hold sway within the UN, and whether any kind of decisive action would ever pass the General Assembly or the Security Council. It seems like anything the UN does has to be so watered down in order to appeal to all the members that they may as well not have bothered.
post #9 of 10
I think that can definetly be said for the General Assembley, because whatever they do it is non-binding and therefore pretty much big words without any real immidiate impact.
So the real power boils down to the decisions of the Security Council. And then your argument is definetly on to something.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
It also depends on what country/countries hold sway within the UN, and whether any kind of decisive action would ever pass the General Assembly or the Security Council. It seems like anything the UN does has to be so watered down in order to appeal to all the members that they may as well not have bothered.
That's why I'm talking about either a general overhaul of the UN or a substitution by another organization, one that's more autonomous of individual state's influence, not just the introduction of a permanent military arm.
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