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Haunted Houses: Yay or Nay?

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
I haven't had the opportunity to do many of these. Jersey used to be home to one that was locally famous state wide, the Haunted Mansion in Long Branch. But it burned down many years ago. I was too young to have visited it while it was around. One burned down at Six Flags Great Adventure, too. Not surprisingly, there haven't been a great many around since then.

But I keep hearing commercials on the radio for the Terror Behind the Walls haunted house in Philly. I perused their website (Terrorbehindthewalls.com), and I have to admit I'm intrigued. For those who haven't already heard, this is a huge haunted house attraction, located inside a decommissioned prison, Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia. It has something like 5 different exhibit areas. Supposedly, travel magazines & such rate it highly every year.

I did a cheesy haunted hayride a few years ago on a double date w/ my wife, who tried to fix my brother up w/ one of her friends, at some pumpkin farm in Sussex County. But even that one had moments (I was genuinely unnerved by the maniacs w/ the chainsaws; I actually thought for a moment that they ween't gonna stop coming at the tractor). I have to admit I kind of enjoyed it. I can only imagine how good Terror Behind the Walls is. I imagine wandering around in the dark in an abandoned prison must be scary enough. Add horror effects and actors to it, it can be pretty creepy indeed.

Unfortunately, I have a lot going on the next month & a half, which is the ensd of the haunted house's run (it's a regular prison museum the rest of the year), so I don't think I'll get to go. Just curious, has anyone done this particular haunted house before? If so, what'd ya think? On a broader subject, what's the Corner Creature opinion of haunted houses in general? Do you like them or not? If so, which ones do you recommend?
post #2 of 42
That Ghost Hunters show on sci-fi has been there a couple of times just in it's prison museum state, and it's a pretty atmospheric place by itself.
post #3 of 42
I love cheesy shit, so I love haunted houses.

I've been to some really terrible ones, though. The kind that halfway through you're hoping it'll end just because it's so pitiful.

Then there are the great ones. The local Kiwanis used to take over this abandoned shopping center every October and the conversion they did on the inside was just ridiculous. The turned it into this huge maze, and local people put a lot of effort into constructing really detailed sets and props and donating them. The costumes were always great, and there was an element of surprise because you never knew what was going to be around each corner.

They haven't done it the last few years, but it would be awesome if they brought it back.
post #4 of 42
I worked on a Travel Channel segment for the prison's Halloween attraction. The money they get from the Halloween attraction keeps the prison open for the rest of the year. I also visited two other attractions - the edge for the prison is it's a real location and not manufactured. My main criticism would be that it's so goddamn dark, like all other haunted houses are. All of them could be more creative with lighting, instead of pitch-black.
post #5 of 42
Shit, Ig. I started working as a groundskeeper/janitor at Great Adventure the day after the Mansion burned down (a friend of mine passed on a creepy story about THAT ninght - holy shit). I lost faith in humanity for awhile that summer - every time a visitor to the park stopped me, they wanted to know where the Haumted mansion was. I 'd say "It burned down. It's not there anymore" (used to be near a food court/picnic area - Garden of Eatin' ). They'd still want to know where it was/used to be, so they could gawk. I got so annoyed after awhile I'd tell 'em where it used to be, then tell 'em to look REAL hard - the whole area was cleaned up and had a small memorial garden placed in its spot.

Never got to visit the mansion in Long Branch - there was one in Brigantine (Brigantine Castle?) I used to see advertised on TV when I was a kid (had some vampire attacking a girl, a witch touching a body on a slab, and the body turns into a skeleton - cool Creature Features type stuff).
post #6 of 42
I went to a haunted house in Columbus, OH that used to run a path through a local minor league stadium. The locker rooms were all in blacklight with fluorescent paint all over the walls and crazy clowns jumping out at you. When we got to the parking lot towards the end, two guys jumped out at us with a chainsaw and weedwacker, both which immediately sputtered out causing both guys to throw their weapons down in disgust, followed by them leaving and saying they were going to go drink some more behind the cars.

I guess my point is that I like haunted houses.
post #7 of 42
I've been to Eastern State Penitentiary. It's a blast, but pretty pricey for what is, essentially, a glorified haunted house. And, being in Center City, the crowds get outrageous. I'd still recommend it. What I'd really recommend, however, is trying to hook up with one of the off-season ghost hunts. That's the real deal freakiness.
post #8 of 42
In North Carolina, Haunted Trails are popular. I remember in elementary school this kid named Wayne got injured when he was chased by a maniac with a chainsaw. The "actor" with the chainsaw tripped and hit this guy Wayne in the head. (This is a 10 year old).

These chainsaws were without the blade, which is a good thing or it probably would have been extremely bloody.
post #9 of 42
I used to love the things until I worked in one. They kind of lost their appeal for awhile. They aren't really scary but most play on an inherent fear of dark enclosed spaces. I visited on last year that was awesome though. It was a combined haunted house/haunted trail. The trail was the best part of it. Especially their Camp Crystal Lake area.
post #10 of 42
Thought this might be of interest.
post #11 of 42
Having worked at Universal for nearly all of their Halloween Horror Nights, haunted houses just don't do it for me anymore. I know all the tricks now, so when I walk through, it's "Oh, there's a hidden door, and there's a blind spot a guy could hide in." Now I go through more to appreciate the set design and the costumes, since the scares just aren't there anymore.
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
- there was one in Brigantine (Brigantine Castle?) I used to see advertised on TV when I was a kid (had some vampire attacking a girl, a witch touching a body on a slab, and the body turns into a skeleton - cool Creature Features type stuff).
I went there twice as a kid. Fantastic haunted house. I remember liking it better than the Great Adventure and Disney World houses. As all haunted houses are fated to do, it burned down. But then it's charred carcass broke from the pier and fell into the ocean. Even in death it managed to one-up other haunted houses.
post #13 of 42
My town has a haunted theater known as Cinema 1-2-3. Not like a bunch of kids dressed as leatherface, this is supposedly REALLY haunted. Or so people say, when I googled it this came up:
Visalia - Cinema 1-2-3 - In the lobby there have been seen 3 different kids roaming around and following many of the visitors. When you shine your flashlight on them the light does not go through them. But yet they are still transparent. There have been unusual screaming and banging from inside the old theater. Many eyewitnesses have seen reenactments of an 11 yr old boy being thrown off the roof by a shadow like figure. There have been accounts of over 300 spirits inhabiting this theater. Some of the stories about this place date back into the 1800s.
Stupid. But I tell ya, I walked by it one night and ran as fast as I could to Burger King.
post #14 of 42
Brtain has a trio of places called The Dungeons. I went to the York one a few months back- it's basically a cross between a haunted house and a fairly ghoulish history lesson. Kind of thing were you'll walk down a recreation of a street in Historical York with plague victims jumping out about you, then go through a door and have a guy give a ten-minute performance on the Black Death, complete with pulling a rubber human heart out of the autopsy course and throwing it at us.
Not badly done, nontheless. The holographic 3-d ghost thing they did at one point was particularly clever.
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Nightmare
I used to love the things until I worked in one. They kind of lost their appeal for awhile. They aren't really scary but most play on an inherent fear of dark enclosed spaces. I visited on last year that was awesome though. It was a combined haunted house/haunted trail. The trail was the best part of it. Especially their Camp Crystal Lake area.
Ah, sounds like you visited Treedines Haunted Farm, up past Anderson. That is a good haunt. Have you tried Wompus Woods, which is up above Spartanburg?

www.treedines.com

www.wompuswoods.com
post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
I went there twice as a kid. Fantastic haunted house. I remember liking it better than the Great Adventure and Disney World houses. As all haunted houses are fated to do, it burned down. But then it's charred carcass broke from the pier and fell into the ocean. Even in death it managed to one-up other haunted houses.
I do recall it burned down (guess it collected all the souls it needed and went... home), but didn't know it collapsed into the ocean. That sounds so appropos.
post #17 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4496 aka Joe Sixpack
Ah, sounds like you visited Treedines Haunted Farm, up past Anderson. That is a good haunt. Have you tried Wompus Woods, which is up above Spartanburg?

www.treedines.com

www.wompuswoods.com
Yep, it was Treedines. Haven't made it to Wompus Woods though. How does it rate against Treedines?
post #18 of 42
The Original Hollywood Horror Show in Snowcamp, NC is pretty good too. It's run by a couple of guys who are involved in special effects for horror films and they do an excellent job. Production values are high and there are some real scares (even when you know they're coming). It's also the setting for the less-than-interesting Michael Madsen film, "Vampires Anonymous." That shoudn't discourage you from going--they put on a great show.

http://www.originalhollywoodhorrorshow.com/
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Nightmare
Yep, it was Treedines. Haven't made it to Wompus Woods though. How does it rate against Treedines?
Even more elaborate, if you can believe it. Draws MASSIVE crowds on the weekends. They are even running TV commercials for it down in my area (Greenwood).
post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Having worked at Universal for nearly all of their Halloween Horror Nights, haunted houses just don't do it for me anymore. I know all the tricks now, so when I walk through, it's "Oh, there's a hidden door, and there's a blind spot a guy could hide in." Now I go through more to appreciate the set design and the costumes, since the scares just aren't there anymore.
I've been going to HHN as long as I can remember, and I haven't even gotten a jump scare in maybe the last five or six years. The reason I keep going back is because of the environment and it's a fun social retreat if you have a good group of friends going with you. I also have a reasonable amount of acquaintances that worked at HHN and they never have any problem divulging the 'secrets' of the trade, but it doesn't make it any less enjoyable. For anyone that likes that sort of thing, going to haunted houses is a must for the season. Even if you know it's silly, because it is.
post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
Shit, Ig. I started working as a groundskeeper/janitor at Great Adventure the day after the Mansion burned down (a friend of mine passed on a creepy story about THAT ninght - holy shit). I lost faith in humanity for awhile that summer - every time a visitor to the park stopped me, they wanted to know where the Haumted mansion was. I 'd say "It burned down. It's not there anymore" (used to be near a food court/picnic area - Garden of Eatin' ). They'd still want to know where it was/used to be, so they could gawk. I got so annoyed after awhile I'd tell 'em where it used to be, then tell 'em to look REAL hard - the whole area was cleaned up and had a small memorial garden placed in its spot.

Never got to visit the mansion in Long Branch - there was one in Brigantine (Brigantine Castle?) I used to see advertised on TV when I was a kid (had some vampire attacking a girl, a witch touching a body on a slab, and the body turns into a skeleton - cool Creature Features type stuff).
Iggy and Tim, I think I remember the Haunted Mansion at Great Adventure burning down. How long ago was that? And you said "memorial garden" - so I'm assuming there had been fatalities? I'm just vaguely remembering it, I don't know why it's not coming to mind.

Glad you brought up Brigantine Castle. It was THE hot spot to see when I was 12, but it had been built up so much that year that my friends and I were too terrified to actually go. Lots of urban legends about what people saw there.

Interestingly enough, before the casinos came in, and there was still plenty of stuff to do on the Atlantic City boardwalk besides gamble, there was a branch of Tussaud's Wax Museum. Now, every Tussaud's has a "Chamber of Horrors", but what they do to it varies from branch to branch. Some just have their Chamber of Horrors showing decapitations from the French Revolution - gory, sure, but not stuff that sticks in the mind of a 12 year old. The Atlantic City branch somehow realized that the more contemporary stuff is what would stick in a kid's mind. The stuff they saw in the movies and in the newspapers. So the Atlantic City Tussaud's "Chamber of Horrors" had Richard Speck staring you down from behind bars. Charles Manson leering over you. Carrie at the prom, covered in blood, with her eyes bulging, ready to set the school on fire. Really scary stuff because it was stuff we knew, not some random guy getting his head chopped of hundreds of years ago. THEN, after you saw those statues, you rounded the corner for an actual "haunted mansion" style section of Tussaud's, complete with actors dressed as monsters and murderers who would then jump out at you. I was shaking when I left that section - it was really well done. Of course, everyone said, "if you think THAT was scary, that's nothing compared to Brigantine Castle!", which made me want to see BC even less.
post #22 of 42
I always wanted to check out Brigantine, but my folks never got around to taking me. I mostly remember it through commercials, the same way I remember Wild West City in Netcong, NJ (Uncle Floyd used to sing the theme song! "Get my 10 gallon hat, twirl my gun, -something something, and have some fun! Come to WILD WEST CITY, a city running WILD!").

Re: Great Adventure - if I remember right, back in '84(?) a group of kids from NYC were in the park on a school trip. They were in the Mansion, and some yahoo was flicking his Bic for a better view (Haunted Mansion was kind of spooky and dark - duh), when the lighter's flame ignited something flammable (lots of papier-mache, flammable plastic inside). The Mansion itself was a bunch of office trailers locked together - it had no real sprinkler system, many exterior doors were covered in the Mansion's facade, and some of the "Emergency Exit" doors were locked to keep non-paying customers from sneaking in. My friend Scott from high-school was part of the Grounds crew called in to help put the fire out - he said he heard the screaming and thumping coming from one of the Exit doors, but he couldn't open it because 1) it was hot (he still has burns on his palms to this day from the handle he was trying to open) and 2) it was partially covered in the building facade.

Great Adventure settled with the families out-of-court - I think about 10 people died. I started working there the next day, by then the Mansion was gone, whatever scorched ground was there was re-landscaped, and by summer's end, the memorial garden was in place.
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaNewYork
Iggy and Tim, I think I remember the Haunted Mansion at Great Adventure burning down. How long ago was that? And you said "memorial garden" - so I'm assuming there had been fatalities? I'm just vaguely remembering it, I don't know why it's not coming to mind.
Yep, it was 1984. You old bastards!

Heh, I was 2...
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaNewYork
Iggy and Tim, I think I remember the Haunted Mansion at Great Adventure burning down. How long ago was that? And you said "memorial garden" - so I'm assuming there had been fatalities? I'm just vaguely remembering it, I don't know why it's not coming to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Haunted Castle at Six Flags Great Adventure was a haunted house attraction at Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in Jackson Township, New Jersey. On May 11, 1984, eight teenage visitors were trapped and killed when the structure was destroyed by fire.

The fire started at 6:35 p.m. on a Friday evening. Fanned by outside air conditioners that continued to push air up through the floor vents, it spread rapidly due to the use of flammable building materials. About 29 people were in the attraction when the fire started. Fourteen, including four park employees, escaped. Seven were treated for smoke inhalation at an area hospital. Eight teenagers from one group of nine that entered together were trapped and killed by asphyxiation. The sole survivor of the group was carried to safety by a park employee.

During the subsequent criminal trial, the Jackson Township fire inspector testified that he had never inspected the castle. The township considered the castle a "temporary structure," even after it had been at the park for five years, based on the fact that the trailers were on wheels. The castle lacked a building permit or certificate of occupancy, and had no sprinklers or alarms despite repeated recommendations for them by the park's own safety consultants.

An independent film titled Doorway to Hell? The Mystery and Controversy Surrounding the Fire at the Haunted Castle was produced in 2003 by Peter James Smith, a long-time patron of the castle. Smith's documentary questions the official report's finding that the fire was accidental. He speaks of an "emotionally disturbed" youth with a history of setting fires who "kept playing with a lighter in his pocket", and says the youth was seen exiting the Castle as the fire broke out, questioned but not charged.

Smith also says that two earlier visitors on the day of the fire reported seeing a chained exit door, but were not called as witnesses. He further says that diagrams of the castle and its exits used in the trial were inaccurate, and did not show a metal fence erected to protect employees from hostile guests, something that would have made escape more difficult.

9999
post #25 of 42
Dear Fat Jason, I just encountered Relatively Fit Jason about 20 feet down the trail, so if you are implying that you are Amazing Teleporting Jason from Jason Takes Manhattan then you need to find someone of similar build.

Dear guy dressed up as Leatherface. I'd like to believe that you are smart enough to remove the chain from your chainsaw, but having lived in this area all my life, and there being multiple Leatherfaces with multiple chainsaws, then the odds that one of you was stupid enough to leave the chain on goes up. Keep that shit away from my ankles, yo.

Dear effeminate Michael Meyers, No, just no.

Honestly, when are the Jasons, Michaels, and Freddys going to be retired? At this point I'd be happy to see a Horace Pinker, Sammy Curr or Max Jenke show up. Hell, Just once I like to see the guy from My Bloody Valentine jump out from behind the corn stalks rather than Freddy Krueger. And why is Freddy hiding behind that corn in the first place? Is it dream corn?
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil!
From Article:

Haunted Castle at Six Flags Great Adventure was a haunted house attraction at Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in Jackson Township, New Jersey. On May 11, 1984, eight teenage visitors were trapped and killed when the structure was destroyed by fire.

The fire started at 6:35 p.m. on a Friday evening. Fanned by outside air conditioners that continued to push air up through the floor vents, it spread rapidly due to the use of flammable building materials. About 29 people were in the attraction when the fire started. Fourteen, including four park employees, escaped. Seven were treated for smoke inhalation at an area hospital. Eight teenagers from one group of nine that entered together were trapped and killed by asphyxiation. The sole survivor of the group was carried to safety by a park employee.

During the subsequent criminal trial, the Jackson Township fire inspector testified that he had never inspected the castle. The township considered the castle a "temporary structure," even after it had been at the park for five years, based on the fact that the trailers were on wheels. The castle lacked a building permit or certificate of occupancy, and had no sprinklers or alarms despite repeated recommendations for them by the park's own safety consultants.

An independent film titled Doorway to Hell? The Mystery and Controversy Surrounding the Fire at the Haunted Castle was produced in 2003 by Peter James Smith, a long-time patron of the castle. Smith's documentary questions the official report's finding that the fire was accidental. He speaks of an "emotionally disturbed" youth with a history of setting fires who "kept playing with a lighter in his pocket", and says the youth was seen exiting the Castle as the fire broke out, questioned but not charged.

Smith also says that two earlier visitors on the day of the fire reported seeing a chained exit door, but were not called as witnesses. He further says that diagrams of the castle and its exits used in the trial were inaccurate, and did not show a metal fence erected to protect employees from hostile guests, something that would have made escape more difficult.
Now that's a haunted house. Enter at your own peril.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C
Now that's a haunted house. Enter at your own peril.
No shit - I forgot that this happened the day after my birthday! And since it was mentioned, I dimly recall hearing something about chained doors...

Great Adventure aptly named or what?
post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron
Honestly, when are the Jasons, Michaels, and Freddys going to be retired? At this point I'd be happy to see a Horace Pinker, Sammy Curr or Max Jenke show up. Hell, Just once I like to see the guy from My Bloody Valentine jump out from behind the corn stalks rather than Freddy Krueger. And why is Freddy hiding behind that corn in the first place? Is it dream corn?
The various haunts in the Philly area seem really attached to 13 Ghosts type shit. And in covering three different haunts, I noticed each had distinct personalities. The prison cast was very stereotypically "theater kids". You know what I mean. Another had a very metal-head, "I'm really like this, bro!", horror nerd vibe, and a third felt like I was hanging with the characters from Knightriders or a Renaissance Fair or something.
post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4496 aka Joe Sixpack
Even more elaborate, if you can believe it. Draws MASSIVE crowds on the weekends. They are even running TV commercials for it down in my area (Greenwood).
WOW, might try Wompus Woods this year then. Howdy, neighbor, I'm in McCormick. *waves*
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron
Honestly, when are the Jasons, Michaels, and Freddys going to be retired? At this point I'd be happy to see a Horace Pinker, Sammy Curr or Max Jenke show up. Hell, Just once I like to see the guy from My Bloody Valentine jump out from behind the corn stalks rather than Freddy Krueger. And why is Freddy hiding behind that corn in the first place? Is it dream corn?
OH MY GOD!!! I used to know a guy that scared the bejesus out of me when I first met him because he looked just like Sammy Curr!! Of course he ended up being like a brother to me so all was well.
post #31 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
Great Adventure aptly named or what?
Not quite as aptly named as the now defunct "(TR)Action Park." And you know who you have to thank for that closing don't you?

That's right. Fuckin' lawyers. You're welcome.

And it's "Get my 10 gallon hat, twirl my gun, JOIN THE POSSE and have some fun. . . . "

Wild West City was one attraction I DID make it to.
post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
Not quite as aptly named as the now defunct "(TR)Action Park." And you know who you have to thank for that closing don't you?

That's right. Fuckin' lawyers. You're welcome.

And it's "Get my 10 gallon hat, twirl my gun, JOIN THE POSSE and have some fun. . . . "

Wild West City was one attraction I DID make it to.
Well done, IggytheBorg. Your Kung-Fu (and memory) is stronger than mine!

Never made it to Action Park, but I did go to Wild West City when I was a kid. I remember the live action shoot-em ups - good times.

I tell ya, we really need a good 'ol fashioned Haunted House at the Shore again, though. Alas, too many bad memories will probably ensure it never happens.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello
Yep, it was 1984. You old bastards!

Heh, I was 2...
(*Beats Alex to death with a walker. Covers the body with a crocheted shawl*)

Ahhh, May of 1984. That's why I only kind of heard about it in passing - I was away at college.
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
Well done, IggytheBorg. Your Kung-Fu (and memory) is stronger than mine!

Never made it to Action Park, but I did go to Wild West City when I was a kid. I remember the live action shoot-em ups - good times.(
Video.
post #35 of 42
always been fascinated by the backstory to the Winchester Mystery House in San Jose, CA. for one reason or another I've never found the time to actually go, but one day I will try out their flashlight tour.

until then I'm hoping to get at least a few vicarious chills through the Most Haunted Live 7 Hour Winchester Mystery House special this friday.
post #36 of 42
working in the haunted house and startling the shit out of people with a chainsaw was fuckin fun. Going through the haunted house? not so much.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple_72
always been fascinated by the backstory to the Winchester Mystery House in San Jose, CA. for one reason or another I've never found the time to actually go, but one day I will try out their flashlight tour.
My wife's friend will be visiting in late October and we're going to try and get tickets for the flashlight tour. I didn't even know about the tours until you mentioned it, so many thanks!

I grew up on Long Island and used to go to the local Haunted Houses and Hayrides, but I recall pestering my folks to drive to Jersey for both Brigantine Castle and the house in Long Branch. Fond memories indeed.

Here's the Wiki entry on Richard Garriott's (Lord British of Ultima fame) super-deluxe Haunted House.
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee
My wife's friend will be visiting in late October and we're going to try and get tickets for the flashlight tour. I didn't even know about the tours until you mentioned it, so many thanks!
sure thing, and if you do go then please post back about any Winchester stuff.
post #39 of 42
Thread Starter 
I love it when my threads can bring my fellow chewers closer together.
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
I love it when my threads can bring my fellow chewers closer together.
Or give them a weird sense of nostalgia. I grew up with all of this stuff - the Brigantine Castle commercials, Action Park, Great Adventure (which I only went to once when I was very young - too young for the roller-coasters and the haunted house).

And I went to elementary school basically right down the road from Wild West City. I went on Easter egg hunts and learned to cross-country ski in the woods on that property.
post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil!
The prison cast was very stereotypically "theater kids". You know what I mean.
post #42 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB
Or give them a weird sense of nostalgia. I grew up with all of this stuff - the Brigantine Castle commercials, Action Park, Great Adventure (which I only went to once when I was very young - too young for the roller-coasters and the haunted house).

And I went to elementary school basically right down the road from Wild West City. I went on Easter egg hunts and learned to cross-country ski in the woods on that property.
I really enjoy bringing the nostalgia.
So dave, you never joined the posse and had some fun down at Wild West City, that city runnin' wild? I recall doing so when I was 6. Not very clearly, but I do remember it.
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