24 Great Films Too Painful To Watch Twice - Page 2

I own it, too. I bought the 2-disc set the day it came out, mainly because I was really interested in watching the special features, but haven't even been able to make myself watch those yet, much less the film itself. I'll get to it at some point, I suppose.

Man Bites Dog - not that rough, I watched it several times to write a paper in French about it in my final year of school.

The Vanishing - think I watched that one twice, within a year, about 10 years ago but never since. Not because I'm scared, per se, but I would hate for it to lose its impact and pretty much the whole film is etched into my memory. A truly brilliant, truly unsettling, terrifying film. One of the all-time classic endings.

United 93 is a funny one. It was a real experience in the cinema - hearing the whole screening softly exhale when the screen goes black, realising we'd all been holding our breath for several minutes - but a much more emotional one at home. I actually cried and was shaking for about 20 minutes after I watche dit on DVD. As for the extras, the pieces about the actors going to meet the families of the characters they have portrayed is occasionally gut-wrenching, particularaly the young guy who meets his character's sister and they get on great and then the old, frail parents arrive. When the camera shifts over to him as they introduce themselves, he is bawling it, uncontrollably... It makes you realise the gravitas of the role those people have played and I think it was a very humbling experience for a lot of those actors.

It has some really twisted dark humor in it, but the rape scene is easily pushing this into this thread.

Is Bad Lieutenant really that hard to watch? I mean, I wouldn't want to watch it with Grandma or anything, but I don't think I'd ever call it "painful to watch".

54 posts and no Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?

What kind of pussy are you?

It was sad. Also, fuck you.

THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC doesn't belong on the list. The AV Club's entry on it does a good job of explaining why:

This partly why the film is so brilliant, and why, as a technical exercise, it's so fascinating to revisit. Coupled with the Falconetti performance and Richard Einhorn's moving "score," I find it to draw emotions from me that are well worth experiencing again. I've seen the film a few times in the last year or two.

That's a really weird addition. I really didn't find that one painful or unpleasant at all. I thought it was beautiful. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to see it again.

There is a lot of truth in Eternal, but it only qualifies for the list with a pretty big caveat. And that is that you have to have known and been destroyed by a girl like Clementine for the film to have any emotional impact whatsoever.

Completely untrue. I have not known or been destroyed by a girl like Clementine, and I found it to have tremendous emotional impact. And it seems to me that if you're saying that, you're putting too much of your sympathy into Carrey's character, when in fact, they both share the blame for how bad their relationship was.

Agreed. To me the emotional connection comes from watching two people who refuse to learn from the mistakes they've made, and neither want to make the effort to improve themselves. They'd rather just forget and start over, doomed to the make the same mistakes, and bring their flaws into each new relationship. Except that Joel and Clementine are doomed to make those same mistakes with each other instead of with someone else. Here's two people seemingly destined to keep meeting, and if they could just remember why it went wrong in the first place they could do something about it. To me, the saddest and most frustrating scene in the film is when they are both listening to the other's tapes describing in excruciating detail what they feel is wrong with the other. There it is. The things they refused to face about themselves while in the relationship is now laid bare in front of them. It's a gift, really. They've just met each other again for the first time, and here is each others true thoughts and feelings about the other. And what they are saying about each other is absolutely true. They could have used it as a road map. A way to avoid the problems that brought so much hurt to them in the first place. But no, they'll ignore it. At least for now. They're lost in the first exuberant moments of a blossoming relationship, so they are going to look past any warnings about the other or themselves.

It is a beautiful film, but painful to watch as well, IMO. Not because it reminds me of a specific girl that broke my heart, but because it forces me to look at my own flaws and how they've affected past relationships, and how things might have gone differently if I had tried to fix those things instead of laying blame squarely at the someone else's feet. That we don't run off and erase our memories of failed relationships means that we can learn from them and apply what we've learned to future relationships. It's incredibly stirring to watch Joel try to cling to any memory of Clementine he can, but as much as it is because he wants to cherish those moments (no matter what they are), it's also because without them he may never change.

That's kind of where I was going with this. It's a beautiful movie, but I find it personally meaningful and it seems too heartbreaking and tragic to watch for a long time.

If anything, when Carrey tells Clementine that 'he knows how she gets people to like her' that just reminded me too much of an actual relationship. There's a lot of truth there and I think you can identify with the destructive nature of the relationship (on both sides) if you've been there already. That's just an example, which pretty much happened to me in real life, of the kind of 'truth' which is only really used as a weapon and as such it's painful to see representations of it.

Eternal Sunshine is a very fun movie and it has a happy ending. Doesn't belong on the list.

I'm not sure I'd call the subject matter fun, nor would I describe the film as having a flat out happy ending. But I agree it doesn't belong on the list. It's endlessly watchable, but that's because of Gondry's direction, Kaufman's script, and the great performances from everyone involved. So while I think Gondry brings a lot joy to the film due to his endlessly inventive visual style, the subject matter, itself, is anything but fun.

I think that is a distinction that needs to be made in this thread. I think it was Ebert that said(and I'm paraphrasing here) that he could become incredibly depressed while watching a badly made comedy, but be exhilarated by a brilliantly directed film that has an otherwise depressing and painful subject matter.

On a visceral level it's fun. As for the happy ending, I think it's happy because it states that even if they end, relationships are worth it. Similar to Annie Hall's ending, as was discussed here.

That's a very astute point and one, I feel, that separates a viewer (casual) from a film fan (involved). A film doesn't have to be "enjoyable" to be thrilling. Children of Men or Pan's Labyrinth might be two recent films that have really dark subject matter and some harrowing scenes, but that are electrifying through their sheer use of cinematic technique. For that reason alone, I have sat through Irreversible and Requiem on several occasions and will, I'm sure, sit through them again.

And I don't think anyone would argue with that sentiment, or ultimately that it is one of the strongest messages the film advocates. But, in Joel and Clementine's case, they've decided to give it another go. And that's only because they don't completely remember what went wrong in the first place. But they have the tapes. Maybe they could get it right this time, but the odds are against it. You see how they react to hearing the tapes initially. They refuse to believe the things they are hearing about each other, or that they could feel that way in the first place. The ending could just as easily be seen as showing two people locked in a horrible loop of self-destructive behavior. Never learning from what came before. I've seen this behavior in relationships. Hell, I've participated in that sort of behavior. That spark that keeps you going back, making you forget why you ended the relationship in the first place.

There is hope there. The tapes are the hope. But the reality is that there are plenty of people in the real world making the same mistakes that Joel and Clementine make without having the benefit, or detriment, of completely erasing our painful memories. We can delude ourselves easily enough without a machine to do it for us. Sometimes we just need to move on, and it's the best thing for both people. At the end of the film, Joel and Clementine aren't going to do that. Now, they can either change who they are, fix those dysfunctional parts of themselves that caused the relationship to become abusive in the first place (and it was abusive by the end, maybe not physically but definitely mentally), or they can simply rely on the hope that it will be better this time. Oh, how I've heard that before...

I think that's very true. Eternal Sunshine isn't a fun, feel-good film by any stretch, and I think that Joel and Clementine are both really emotionally "damaged" (if that's the right word to use) people, plus the whole disturbing storyline of having any bad memories of your life erased. But it's so well made, such a great movie, that I never felt it was a depressing movie. Actually, when I saw it the second time, I was with the guy I was dating back then, and I remember telling him, "Yeah, you have to see Eternal Sunshine, it's a great movie!"

If Eternal Sunshine isn't feel-good... it certainly isn't feel-bad, either.

Amphibatron's interpretation of the ending is the exact one I came away with. I didn't see it as in any way a hopeful, upbeat, happy ending. It's two people doomed to make the same mistakes over and over. That's why the entire movie is about wiping your memories of bad relationships away: because it's about people who refuse to learn from their mistakes.

But the next you guys are missing is that the alternative is death. We are going to make the same mistakes over and over again, because we're human, and maybe it is a little different the next time.

Of course, but should we consider that a happy thing? I didn't feel that the movie was seeing it that way. If other people did, I think that's to the film's credit, actually. A film that can be interpreted multiple ways depending on your life experience is honest-to-god great storytelling.

You might change, but the possibility of change or growth (even if it's illusory) is way better than nothing. As Jean Seberg quotes in Breathless "Over Grief or nothing, I choose grief."

Also re-quoted by Jeffrey Jones in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, which, sadly, is where I heard it first.

If there was an extra scene added to the movie of Joel beating the shit out of Clementine(or Clementine beating Joel, which would have been more likely) would you find the fact that they have erased those memories and it leads to them getting back together to be a happy ending? Joel and Clementine's relationship might not have been physically abusive, but it could have just as easily been, and either way, both were still miserable by the end. When applied to relationships, "Over Grief or nothing, I choose grief" sounds no different to me than an abused spouse who tries to convince you and themselves that there is something worthwhile still to be found in their awful relationship. "He didn't hit me all the time, most of the time he could be the most loving man I've ever met. It's going to be different this time." You don't even have to take it those extremes. If you've grown bored, unsatisfied or miserable in a relationship, but you don't leave because you prefer it over nothing, then you are just self-deluding yourself. And if Mierzwiak's machine isn't anything but a metaphor for our propensity for self-delusion then I don't know what is.

The thing about "Over Grief or nothing, I choose grief" is that it is only admirable if the person is actively seeking out new relationships or new experiences and learning from what came before so that one day "grief or nothing" might not be the only choices available to them. Yeah, the relationships, or life choices in general, may keep ending up badly, but they are not giving up. That's the point of the movie: Move on, but don't give up hope. And for the love of God, remember what came before! The good memories so that you won't give up hope, and the bad so that the same mistakes won't be made again. There's always someone else, and maybe the next time it will be different.

Joel and Clementine's relationship ran it's course and it ended for a very good reason. The two people that meet on the train are the same people that met once before. They're no different. But how could they be? Anything they could have taken away from their previous experience together has been erased. There's only hope if there is remembrance. And even then, that hope is realistically going to lie with someone else, not between Joel and Clementine. And that's why it's sad. I'd love to think that it's a happy ending for the both of them, but then I'd have to forget everything about their previous relationship that I've seen depicted in the film. Essentially, I'd be making the same mistake that they did.

But there was a time, a lot of the time, that they loved each other and it was special. I took the relationship as a metaphor for life. You're going to die. Love, especially their love, fades. But it is better to have had those experiences than not. And their relationship was NOWHERE near violence. Joel ended the relationship, but towards the end they weren't talking any more because they hit a crossroads due to him saying (essentially) they weren't going to have kids together. So the passive aggression started coming out. Less talking, her staying out late, etc. But many of those moves were done to get Joel back in. It's likely that she loved him way more than he her, or at least that he could express, which may be why she erased him, or maybe it's because (as his friends say) she did it on a whim, or because its the central plot conceit. Regardless, you're putting your square baggage in this round hole of a movie.

I'm not really saying thier relationship was close to violence, just that when a relationship ends, there is usually a reason. Erasing the reasons isn't a good thing and restarting a relationship because you can't remember why it ended is certainly not a good thing.

You seem to be disregarding the ending in favor of the movie's main message of, as you said, "it is better to have had those experiences than not." But the ending has something completely different on it's mind.

Did you have to shower each time afterward?

With the loop of them on the beach? It's possible that it will never end, if erasure is still available - obviously Mary fell into the same trap twice - but even if they continually erased themselves, age would change their relationship. Also, I don't know if they are karmically right for each other. They might be. Again, they keep getting on the roller coaster, even though it always ends, because they enjoy the ride. As someone who doesn't necessarily believe in true love, or marriage lasting until the end of days, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Would age really change things if they couldn't remember the experience of growing older?

And Mary, although she fell into the same trap twice, didn't opt to take the same way out the second time. Quite the opposite, in fact.

They may physically age, but mentally they would be in a form of stasis because they keep erasing themselves. You can't grow or mature without the benefit of experience. And that means they would keep coming at the relationship in exactly the same way that caused it to end in the first place. That's not to say that Joel and Clementine couldn't make it work a second time around, but without the benefit of knowing what the problems were the first time through, the odds of it succeeding get lower and lower. And, to me, that is what the looping represents.

I don't agree with this at all. If your philosophy is that you should just keep getting into a relationship with someone that you know is going to end badly because, eh, nothing lasts anyway, then I have a hard time defining that as a good thing or a happy outlook on life and relationships. It may be a realistic outlook from your point of view, but that doesn't make it something I'd be happy with. Maybe that's me deluding myself, but if it keeps me hoping and looking for something better then I'll stick with it.

Unless you are looking at Joel and Clementine as a metaphor for getting back in the dating pool after a bad break-up. If you have 10 spectacularly failed relationships in a row, then I hope you are still willing to give an 11th a chance. Unless those 10 failures were with the same person. Because then it's definitely time to try riding the coaster with someone else. I don't care if you enjoy the ride or not, if you get back on with the same person then I see nothing to admire and I'm going to start pitying you.

Yes, yes it would - I think at some point Kids would rear up in a totally different way for both of them. Though I think the original draft had them at 80 at one point. Which then also strikes me that they keep going back to it, so there's something inherently there. There is no violence in the relationship, and there is so much that is awesome for them.

Also, they know that they erased themselves, so maybe the multiple-trips of their erasing (if that's what the film implies) could be their way of continuing to stay in love. But the film suggests that everything else in the passage of life remains so they know that they're older, etc.

Dating, on a whole is filled with failure. Because eventually in dating either you settle down or you don't. But the high-points in all relationships are worth it, says the film, and so says I. I feel like the flicker at the end is being read into too much in a literal way.

Again, I wasn't really saying I felt their's was a violent relationship. I was just saying that the act of erasure and not realizing why a relationship might not be good for you has darker connotations than just two people continually meeting and breaking up.

Can't really argue with this first point. Dating is filled with up and downs, but the main benefit that people who finally decided to settle down together have over Joel and Clementine is the memories of why there were problems in the first place, and how they were able to work through them. While they have the tapes, I got the distinct impression that they were going to ignore anything said on them.

You bring up a good point, though. Do you think Joel and Clem could have eventually worked things out if she hadn't run off to Lacuna prompting Joel to do the same thing? Was this just a normal rough period in a relationship, or do you think it was emblematic of certain character faults that had been there from the beginning and would continue to plague the relationship?

An early draft of the Eternal Sunshine screenplay is bookended by being set 50 years in the future, showing an old Clementine going to the memory removal programme, because her 3 year relationship with Joel, who she met at a senior dance, didnt work out. That help you guys out?