The Films of Monte Hellman - Page 2

I'll watch The Shooting over the weekend, but I really can't wait for Cockfighter to get sent from my queue. And this poster:



=Greatness.

That first one is hilarious, especially when contrasted with the second.

I love how abruptly the trailer enBORN TO KILL!

I was very surprised to see how big of a role screenwriter and novelist Charles Willeford has in COCKFIGHTER (as heavyset mustached Ed Middleton, the referee). This guy was a better actor than anyone probably expected, and had a unique physical appearance that would've gotten him a great deal more work if he'd stayed in Hollywood (his only other role was a brief cameo in the Roger Corman car chase flick THUNDER AND LIGHTNING). To my mind he's on a short list of writers who actually looked comfortable in front of a camera.

Other interesting bits about the writer and COCKFIGHTER...On the DVD commentary Hellman claims that Willeford wrote only the first draft. Hellman brought in Earl Mac Rauch (BUCKAROO BANZAI) for some doctoring and additional scenes. As much as I love Willeford's writing -- and one of these days I'll have to hunt down his original novel for comparison -- I can definitely see the value of Mac Rauch's material, specifically in the moments between Frank and Mary Elizabeth (Patricia Pearcy). Their scenes have a sense of warmth that the script needed to illustrate the extent of Frank's moral and emotional degeneration.

It's also surprising that Willeford stuck around to act in the film after Mac Rauch rewrote so much of his script, and that he spoke so highly of it later in interviews (and his book Cockfighter Journal: The Story of a Shooting).

That looks great, Phil!, thanks. For those prices I'll have to settle for an excerpt.

This guy had three heart attacks? Geez Louise. I was amazed just by his military record (from the DVD bio). Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, tank commander at the Battle of the Bulge.

Great poster, reminds me of a 100 Bullets cover.

I just watched The Shooting. I'm already seeing that Hellman has a fondness for ambiguity. He likes to keep things vague and mysterious, and let the audience fill in the blanks. I think it's a good storytelling technique, as it makes the films more of a personal experience. Those blanks might be filled in very differently based on personality and life experience. But this also explains why he didn't go on to the commercial success that so many of Corman's directors did.

On a side note, the more old Jack Nicholson movies I see, the more disappointed I become that he completely gave up on writing. He seems to have been much more interesting before he became a superstar.

I just finished a fantastic evening of watching The Shooting twice (once with commentary) and Two Lane Blacktop again, this time with commentary.

Hellman does like ambiguity, but from what I can gather so far his movies are more about the journey than the destination. I also really like how Hellman uses natural environments to almost be a character unto themselves in his movies, using this technique to great effect in both films. I also admire Hellman for his approach to natural dialog and lack of exposition.


I have to admit to one thing, it took me a couple of minutes to get back into The Shooting after the scene where Coley was recounting the titular shooting of the movie. That scene was a touch comical and my years watching MST3K betrayed me. But after that it was great. I think this thread could have just as easily been titled "Warren Oates: Asskicker" because I have grown quite an appreciation for the guy watching these films.


And although Hellman leaves a few details vague, if you pay attention, the story is right there before you. And I highly recommend everyone taking part in this discussion to watch these films with commentary, as there are some great stories, info on the films, time specific industry information, and personal anecdotes that are informative and entertaining.

I really can't wait for Cockfighter to arrive in the mail. I bumped it to the top of my queue.

So did I. Right after I watched The Shooting, in fact.

Does anybody want to take a shot at interpreting THE SHOOTING's bizarre ending? Gashade (Oates) has been all along pursuing his brother, an identical twin who metaphorically represents Gashade himself? I'm not well-versed in Camus or Sartre but I've read that this film plays into Hellman's existentialist philosophy, and certain aspects of the story seem to bear that out (including the ending).

I've also read that Hellman and screenwriter Carole Eastman conceived it in reaction to the Kennedy assassination. An interesting write-up by Ed Gonzalez at Slant Magazine:

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/fi...iew.asp?ID=373

A number of scenes and little moments I could watch on a continuous loop, particularly Nicholson's thrilling entrance as grinning psychopath Billy Spear. I can really appreciate Nicholson's early roles, and how much he put into the work before falling back on the hamming and Jack-isms.

Nicholson's screenplay for RIDE IN THE WHIRLWIND takes a more conventional path than Eastman's, but it's equally interesting in spots.

I'm a little behind. I just finished Two-Lane. Phil, you're a gentleman and a school bus.

Thoughts:

I loved the opening, it just thrusts you right into the world, no films today do this.

I used to work in a mechanic shop, so coming at the film from a former car addict's perspective, I did always know what the characters were talking about (wasn't incredibly technical) and could very much relate to the characters, sad sacks that they are.

They're all bottled up inside, desperate for something they can't quite put their finger on. All four are just really unhappy and will continue that way it seems.

The film as a whole illustrates the entire appeal of car racing. It's not so much the destination or winning or really even the chase that's exciting, it's the idea of the great race. Hellman was breaking down some mythology with the film.

It's very accurate how The Driver and Mechanic can't really relate to other people (maybe even each other) and can't really even communicate except in car (or boast).

In my experience, car culture is absolutely chock full of bullshitters, I used to know at least three guys just like GTO.

The lack of a score or really any music was a great choice, the sound of engines is the score. This serves to make the silence of the final scene even more striking.

I really wish hitchhiking was still such a common thing.

Oh, and I kept laughing at the Mr. Rogers-ness of Oates' color changing sweaters.

I watched The Shooting a few weeks ago. I was very disapointed by it. Maybe my expectations were too high, but frankly, it's not like I was expecting a masterpiece.

I really didn't get why this was called an existential western except for the weird ending, wich to be honest I didn't get.

Warren Oates was great, Nicholson was fun and Millie Perkins was good. Will Hutchins was horrible and may be what spoiled the film for me. It felt like he was acting in a 1938 John Wayne western while the others are in a New Wave film.

I'm still glad I watched it and am hoping a second viewing will change my opinion.

I haven't watched China 9 Liberty 7 yet, Phil.

Phil, thanks for sending China 9, Liberty 37. It took me a long time to find a DVD player to play that thing, actually. Anyway, from that and The Shooting, Hellman's interpretation of the western is beguiling, to say the least. Notice how sparsely populated they are- really lends to the existentialist readings of The Shooting. China 9, Liberty 37 does tend to lean towards the melodramatic, but shit, Warren Oates rules again, and, oh, Jenny Agutter... Interesting stuff.

Losing the whole Cockfighter discussion sucks. As I look back, I think that comes across as Hellman's most interesting film. I do love them westerns, though.

I got it. Thank you kindly. I'm getting the necessary surgery to allow me to have your baby.

If you have the time Phil, I would gladly take a copy of Cockfighter.

In others news: I read through the Two-Lane Blacktop screenplay that comes with the Criterion version and the film is surprisingly faithful to it. Most of what's cut are The Girl's nude scenes. Monte Hellman sucks.

We don't have Netflix in Canada. I really wish we did.

I'm watching Two-Lane tonight and being kind of an idiot when it comes to grasping underlying themes and such, this thread has helped I think. Just wanted to thank everyone in advance.

Been dying to get started on Hellman's films ever since I read Tarantino's rave review of Ride in the Whirlwind. In fact, if you still have no objections to sending out clones, a copy of that one would be fantastic. Let me know if I should bother pming you mailing info.

Whatever happened to the new western that Hellamn was supposed to be filming?

Also FREAKY DEAKY, from the Elmore Leonard novel, currently with Charlie Matthau in Hellman's spot but Tarantino still producing.

Okay sounds good, I sent the personal details.

Just watched Two-Lane Blacktop, and man is it ever interesting. Read a bunch of stuff on it, too. Apparently James Taylor and Dennis Wilson's characters were modeled in some way after French new wave actors, which makes sense, as the film looks like it was shot by one of the new wave guys. Warren Oates was great as well. In my opinion car engines have never sounded better. A good film, and a great introduction to Hellman.

Great thread, Phil. Been a fan of TWO-LANE for a longtime, but not sure if i'd seen COCKFIGHTER until after reading your rave.

Of the two Nicholson westerns, RIDE THE WHIRLWIND & THE SHOOTING-do you have a preference?

Gonna have to break down and rent these this weekend, hopefully they've got them at the local. Aquafresh, what about you guys? I know you've got damn near everything, and I could stand to walk a few more blocks...

Yes, fuck you for completely moving house and having technical difficulties on top of that.

Please do me the favor of dousing your crotch in a flammable substance and setting it on fire as penance for your horrible transgressions, you terrible, monstrous human being.

Nice list, Monte!

Just recently watched Ride In The Whirlwind and The Shooting.

Take it I'm not alone in being completely confused by the ending of the latter?

Great flick though.

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately the VHS I watched RITW on was from 1985 and really showed its age. (Some scenes were just voices talking out of a bright blur) Not exactly a fair shake.

I still need to watch the Shooter, especially after Phil went through the trouble of sending it to me.

You mean The Shooting. If you see Mark Wahlburg, you've grabbed the wrong disc.

Thanks to Phil over the last couple of weeks i saw Cockfighter and Two Lane Blacktop.

Both interesting movies and stills from that time.

What i really took from both of them was how great Oates was. This was my first experience with the guy and he blew me away. Specially in 2LBT.

I really like that theory that the characters are somehow connected. The first guy talked through his elbows and kept changing his story. Really a fascinating aspect of the character.

Both films also have great roles by Harry Dean Stanton, though his Black top role is more of a cameo.

Monte Hellman stories from me:

Always heard about two-lane blacktop and kept passing over the criterion in stores because I didn't want to drop the dough. Then a friend of mine was loaned the movie, we watched it together, he wasn't into it, I really dug it and bought it in some online criterion sale.

Also, I'm now on a big Warren Oates kick, so I'm expecting Cockfighter in the mail tomorrow.

For a movie as sparse as Two Lane Blacktop, it's one of my favorite to quote from.

And Ride in the Whirlwind makes me want to know what Jack Nicholson would write today.

I finally saw this movie. It's deadly dull and might as well have been directed by any hack in the DTV biz.

Only plus: Robert Culp. Culp has a quirky character and some good lines - and he's clearly having fun - but he's not in it enough.