CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › It's about damn time. Re: Televangelists
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

It's about damn time. Re: Televangelists

post #1 of 28
11/6/07 at 4:12pm
Thread Starter 
Now if something is actually done about these rip-offs. I like this part "for possible financial misconduct". These people use every trick in the book in order to live their lavish lifestyles which ironically goes against everything Jesus preached about.

Two years ago something like this would have never happened to this bunch due to their influence with Bush and the other Republicans. A good sign that evangelicals have lost some political influence which is a plus for this country.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3456977.shtml

Quote:
CBS News has learned Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, is investigating six prominent televangelist ministries for possible financial misconduct.

Letters were sent Monday to the ministries demanding that financial statements and records be turned over to the committee by December 6th.

According to Grassley's office, the Iowa Republican is trying to determine whether or not these ministries are improperly using their tax-exempt status as churches to shield lavish lifestyles.

The six ministries identified as being under investigation by the committee are led by: Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn. Three of the six - Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar - also sit on the Board of Regents for the Oral Roberts University.
More at the link above.
Reply
post #2 of 28
11/6/07 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
The ones listed are some of the superstars who appear on Trinity Broadcasting Network. Joyce Meyer has been under investigation in her own state for possible wrong doings and yet she still continues to sell millions of books and appears before packed houses (tens of thousands) everywhere she goes.
Reply
post #3 of 28
11/6/07 at 4:32pm
It's incredibly mystifying and depressing how these guys get away with it. A friend of mine's mom really would send her last two pennies to these people, even if she had to go hungry that week. It's an incredibly cynical abuse of people's faith.
Reply
post #4 of 28
11/6/07 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
They have found an excuse for what your mom's friend does. They keep telling followers that even though they are poor now, soon Jesus will reward them (seed money) to the point where they'll have so much money they won't be able to handle it. Also, followers are told that if others question their donations that is the devil talking and they (donators) have to overcome it.
Reply
post #5 of 28
11/6/07 at 4:57pm
While flipping through the channels the other week, I saw two guys selling "prayer cloths," one red and one green, and claiming that these cloths could bring wealth, happiness, you name.

It was old-time idolatry mixed with huckstership and given a Christian sheen, but I don't understand how any adult could be credulous enough to not feel insulted.
Reply
post #6 of 28
11/6/07 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
One of the reasons Frank is some of these people grew up in a household where giving and believing in these evangelists was the norm and to question or doubt them was the devil causing you to doubt. "They are a man of God, don't you dare question them" mentality.
Reply
post #7 of 28
11/6/07 at 5:32pm
I've always maintained that churches should be taxed on any income remaining after basic maintenance and business costs, unless any and all extra income is donated to a certified charity. That way your smaller local churches would still be tax free, since it's unlikely they'd pull in a large amount of cash, but these televangelists would either have to pay tax or donate all that extra cash to charity.
Reply
post #8 of 28
11/6/07 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Cobretti
but I don't understand how any adult could be credulous enough to not feel insulted.
In my own personal experience in the South, at least, the biggest factors seem to be a lack of a good education, desperation, despair and loneliness.
Reply
post #9 of 28
11/6/07 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
In my own personal experience in the South, at least, the biggest factors seem to be a lack of a good education, desperation, despair and loneliness.
Agreed, and that's why snark will never do a thing besides inflate middling egos. Sad and scared people need a calm and happy voice, particularly one that's not trying to take all their money. Calling them dumb and lonely for being dumb and lonely will only dig them deeper.

I'm not pointing fingers, I can get petty just as well as the next guy. Thanks for writing that Jake, we all know the words but sometimes they should be spoken.
Reply
post #10 of 28
11/6/07 at 5:52pm
This thread reminds me of that South Park episode where televangelists are asking viewers for money so they can obtain better missiles and upgrades to the Christian space armada trying to convert an alien race.
Reply
post #11 of 28
11/6/07 at 6:32pm
I just sent this to my mom. After my parents split up several years ago, my mom started watching these guys, excuse the choice of words, religiously. I know every name on this list. My mom will stay up nights worried to death about her retirement, and how she is going to make it as she is reaching her twilight years, but I'll go to visit and find all their newsletters in her mail, and books sitting out. It absolutely sickens me.

I've begged her to find a nice church she enjoys, and drop a $5 bill in the collection plate on Sundays, and that's it. She doesn't have the money to spend on $30 books, $20 tape sets every month, donations, and all this other nonsense. She even wanted to see Benny Hinn when he came to Houston but she thankfully, was out of town due to work.

Trying to explain to your weak willed mother why this man of God is wearing Versace on stage, and she's worried she will spend her senior years eating cat food is absolutely heart breaking.
Reply
post #12 of 28
11/6/07 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
In my own personal experience in the South, at least, the biggest factors seem to be a lack of a good education, desperation, despair and loneliness.
Yes, because only poor, dumb, lonely, and desperate Southerners send televangelists money.
Reply
post #13 of 28
11/6/07 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
Yes, because only poor, dumb, lonely, and desperate Southerners send televangelists money.
Well, only dumb people do. I'd say donors fall into, on average, 2 of the other categories as well.
Reply
post #14 of 28
11/6/07 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
Yes, because only poor, dumb, lonely, and desperate Southerners send televangelists money.
There really aren't a lot of rich, smart, social, and confident people sending televangelists money. Poor huddled masses represent the majority of the income for these snakes.
Reply
post #15 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:06pm
I think some of you are quite naive if you really think only poor dumb people send these hucksters money. Old rich people scared about their impending doom are just as likely to fall prey to these con-men. But yes, let's perpetuate the dumb southern stereotype.

I'm not saying that you guys are necessarily totally off base, I do however think it's odd to make this topic a geographical one, when these "men of god" tour the world over. It's not just the south they frequent.
Reply
post #16 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:16pm
Actually, the South is probably the minority of their donations, by a vast margin. Let's stereotype the donors in this way...

"Desperate people looking to make amends with God in the easiest way without confessing to, confronting, and repairing their sins....money."

That definition knows no race, demographic, location, salary, etc. Like B_Metal said, these people travel all over the world leeching money. You see when they go to these poor nations investing money into programs to aid, but they're getting financial benefits from those poor host nation's corrupt officials to come and advertise the plight, and get more foreign money dumped into those corrupt coffers.
Reply
post #17 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
I think some of you are quite naive if you really think only poor dumb people send these hucksters money. Old rich people scared about their impending doom are just as likely to fall prey to these con-men. But yes, let's perpetuate the dumb southern stereotype.

I'm not saying that you guys are necessarily totally off base, I do however think it's odd to make this topic a geographical one, when these "men of god" tour the world over. It's not just the south they frequent.
The only people who have mentioned the South are Jacob, who has personal experience, Billyg, who has personal experience, and you, who said we shouldn't make this into a geographical thing.

I think we're all in agreement this is a stupidity/desperation issue and not as much a geographic or financial issue. That said, desperation and poverty often go together.
Reply
post #18 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:21pm
These guys are the worst of the worst, but let's not pretend that they are somehow unique. All churches operate on the same principal: false promises, hucksterism, and inducements to fork over hard-earned cash.

It appears that R. Dickson agrees with me as to the current preposterously lax tax exempt policies towards churches: they should be charitable organizations first, and wealth building bureaucracies never. I'd prefer we just revoke the tax exempt status altogether, with possible exceptions for individuals or monies spent almost entirely on charitable causes. Allowing churches to maintain tax exempt status while simultaneously accumulating wealth is asinine.
Reply
post #19 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
These guys are the worst of the worst, but let's not pretend that they are somehow unique. All churches operate on the same principal: false promises, hucksterism, and inducements to fork over hard-earned cash.
Have to disagree to an extent. There are some good Churches out there who have people in charge that are doing good things for their community - doing so I might add without lining their pockets. They're feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, going around checking and helping to take care of the elderly who live alone.

The downside to all these hucksters like Benny Hinn is many people (not saying you are Overlord) lump the good Churches to these guys. Not all are bad.
Reply
post #20 of 28
11/6/07 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen
Not all are bad.
. . . this is an argument for another time and place.

For now, televangelists do indeed suck. What are the chances of any of this money ever being refunded?
Reply
post #21 of 28
11/6/07 at 8:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
. . . this is an argument for another time and place.
Indeed.

Quote:
What are the chances of any of this money ever being refunded?
:::crickets:::
Reply
post #22 of 28
11/6/07 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
In my own personal experience in the South, at least, the biggest factors seem to be a lack of a good education, desperation, despair and loneliness.
"Hard times flush the chumps." - U.E. McGill
Reply
post #23 of 28
11/6/07 at 10:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
How can you not trust this combover?



He's even written a great book!
Why do I get the feeling that the byline in that book is "So I'm gonna touch you." ?
Reply
post #24 of 28
11/6/07 at 10:43pm
Taxing churchs is one of the foundations of the modern state, I'm not sure why the United States doesn't do it. It would kill most Televangelists and mega-churchs really quick.

This isn't to say churchs are bad, but they should spend there time helping people and spreading the message of there belief, not taking money from people.
Reply
post #25 of 28
11/7/07 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks
Yes, because only poor, dumb, lonely, and desperate Southerners send televangelists money.
What part of "In my own personal experience in the South" confused you?

Of course these assholes have rich contributors as well, but that's politics. The rich ones aren't buying the red prayer hankies or putting their hands on the tv screens to heal their rheumatism -- they're donating for tax breaks and political cronyism.
Reply
post #26 of 28
11/7/07 at 3:05pm
I'm sorry you couldn't get your $20 back for the Sliver of the Cross of Christ mail order, B_MetalSucks. I agree, they shouldn't have sent you a toothpick in the mail.
Reply
post #27 of 28
11/7/07 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
What part of "In my own personal experience in the South" confused you?

Of course these assholes have rich contributors as well, but that's politics. The rich ones aren't buying the red prayer hankies or putting their hands on the tv screens to heal their rheumatism -- they're donating for tax breaks and political cronyism.
What part of "I do however think it's odd to make this topic a geographical one, when these "men of god" tour the world over." confused you? Like I said previously, I'm not accusing anyone of being off base with their experiences just that I thought it odd to make it a geographical topic when obviously these people prey(no pun intended) on people all over the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny
I'm sorry you couldn't get your $20 back for the Sliver of the Cross of Christ mail order, B_MetalSucks. I agree, they shouldn't have sent you a toothpick in the mail.
I've never given to these guys but if it makes it easier for you to just dismiss what I posted rather than address it then by all means have a blast. Again all I was getting at is that it's naive to think that geography, loneliness and dumb poor people are the only things contributing to these "men of God."
Reply
post #28 of 28
11/9/07 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
Here's some specifics on what they are questioning regarding Joyce Meyer (I call money bags as her books take up one section at the local grocery store)

Quote:
Joyce Meyer, the popular preacher who has built a $124-million-a-year empire headquartered in Fenton.

On Monday, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, asked Meyer to provide his staff with documents detailing the finances of the Joyce Meyer Ministries, including the religious group's compensation to Meyer, her husband and other family members, as well as an accounting of their housing allowances, gifts and credit card statements for the last several years.

— A "detailed accounting" of all her and her husband's expense-account items, including clothing and cosmetic surgery.

— Information about any overseas bank accounts and deposits made outside the U.S. after international evangelical crusades.

— The tax-exempt purpose of items purchased for her ministry's headquarters, such as a $23,000 marble-topped commode, a $30,000 conference table and an $11,219 French clock.

— A detailed accounting of total monthly expenses for upkeep on the Meyers' personal residence, and any vacation homes, from 2004 to the present.

— An explanation of any personal use of the ministries' tax-exempt assets, including "jets, employees, facilities," from 2004 to the present.

— An explanation for how personal gifts from donors, such as money or jewelry, are handled and reported to the IRS.
Entire article here
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Political Discourse
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › It's about damn time. Re: Televangelists