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Detroit: America's Most Dangerous City

post #1 of 73
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/dan....ap/index.html

Quote:
Experts say 'most dangerous city' rankings twist numbers

DETROIT, Michigan (AP) -- In another blow to the Motor City's tarnished image, Detroit pushed past St. Louis to become the nation's most dangerous city, according to a private research group's controversial analysis, released Sunday, of annual FBI crime statistics.

The study drew harsh criticism even before it came out. The American Society of Criminology launched a pre-emptive strike Friday, issuing a statement attacking it as "an irresponsible misuse" of crime data.

The 14th annual "City Crime Rankings: Crime in Metropolitan America" was published by CQ Press, a unit of Congressional Quarterly Inc. It is based on the FBI's September 24 crime statistics report.

The report looked at 378 cities with at least 75,000 people and their per-capita rates for homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary and auto theft. Each crime category was considered separately and weighted based on its seriousness, CQ Press said.

Last year's crime leader, St. Louis, Missouri, fell to No. 2. Another Michigan city, Flint, ranked third, followed by Oakland, California; Camden, New Jersey; Birmingham, Alabama; North Charleston, South Carolina; Memphis, Tennessee; Richmond, California; and Cleveland, Ohio.

The study ranked Mission Viejo, California, as the safest U.S. city, followed by Clarkstown, New York; Brick Township, New Jersey; Amherst, New York; and Sugar Land, Texas.

CQ Press spokesman Ben Krasney said details of the weighting system were proprietary. It was compiled by Kathleen O'Leary Morgan and Scott Morgan, whose Morgan Quitno Press published it until its acquisition by CQ Press.

The study assigns a crime score to each city, with zero representing the national average. Detroit got a score of 407, with St. Louis close behind at 406. The score for Mission Viejo, in affluent Orange County, was minus 82.

Detroit was pegged the nation's murder capital in the 1980s and has lost nearly 1 million people since 1950, according to the Census Bureau. Downtown sports stadiums and corporate headquarters -- along with the redevelopment of the riverfront of this city of 919,000 -- have slowed but not reversed the decline. Officials have said crime reports don't help.

Detroit police officials released a statement Sunday night disputing the report, saying it fails to put crime information into proper context.

"Every year this organization sends out a press release with big, bold lettering that labels a certain city as Most Dangerous, USA," Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings said in the release.

"It really makes you wonder if the organization is truly concerned with evaluating crime or increasing their profit," said Bully-Cummings, who noted the complete report is available only by purchase. "With crime experts across the country routinely denouncing the findings, I believe the answer is clear."

"What I take exception to is the use of these statistics and the damage they inflict on a number of these cities," said Mayor Robert Duffy, chairman of the Criminal and Social Justice Committee for the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

The rankings "do groundless harm to many communities," said Michael Tonry, president of the American Society of Criminology.

"They also work against a key goal of our society, which is a better understanding of crime-related issues by both scientists and the public," Tonry said.

Critics also complain that numbers don't tell the whole story because of differences among cities.

"You're not comparing apples and oranges; you're comparing watermelons and grapes," said Rob Casey, who heads the FBI section that puts out the Uniform Crime Report that provides the data for the Quitno report.

The FBI posted a statement on its Web site criticizing such use of its statistics.

"These rough rankings provide no insight into the numerous variables that mold crime in a particular town, city, county, state, or region," the FBI said. "Consequently, they lead to simplistic and/or incomplete analyses that often create misleading perceptions adversely affecting communities and their residents."

Doug Goldenberg-Hart, acquisitions editor at CQ Press, said that the rankings are imperfect, but that the numbers are straightforward. Cities at the top of the list would not be there unless they ranked poorly in all six crime categories, he said.

"The idea that people oppose it, it's kind of blaming the messenger," Goldenberg-Hart said. "It's not coming to terms with the idea that crime is a persistent problem in our society."

The report "helps concerned Americans learn how their communities fare in the fight against crime," CQ Press said in a statement. "The first step in making our cities and states safer is to understand the true magnitude of their crime problems. This will only be achieved through straightforward data that all of us can use and understand."

The study excluded Chicago, Minneapolis, and other Illinois and Minnesota cities because of incomplete data.
Also from the article:
Quote:
Ranked Most Dangerous

1. Detroit, Michigan
2. St. Louis, Missouri
3. Flint, Michigan
4. Oakland, California
5. Camden, New Jersey
6. Birmingham, Alabama
7. North Charleston, South Carolina
8. Memphis, Tennessee
9. Richmond, California
10. Cleveland, Ohio

Ranked Safest

1. Mission Viejo, California
2. Clarkstown, New York
3. Brick Township, New Jersey
4. Amherst, New York
5. Sugar Land, Texas
6. Colonie, New York
7. Thousand Oaks, California
8. Newton, Massachusetts
9. Toms River Township, N.J.
10. Lake Forest, California
post #2 of 73
Puerto Rico was voted "Happiest Place in the World" on the same year we got 950+ murders (we measure 100x35 miles, so, do the math). Hightest rate in all of the USA, I believe (per capita, or something).

So, yeah, lists like these are funny.
post #3 of 73
I love that the Bay Area gets the honor of being home to two of the cities on this list. It's just weird that you have areas like Richmond and Oakland in such a poor state when they're a negligible distance away from not only one of the biggest centers of revenue in the state but also the world. That kind of disparity is alarming.
post #4 of 73
Quote:
Ranked Safest

6. Colonie, New York
I can vouch for that, as I live there. It's also boring as fuck. C'mon Colonie criminals, murder someone for me! Start a fire! Snatch a Ronald from a McDonald's and throw him over a bridge onto a 3 lane highway! Make life interesting around here!
post #5 of 73
As a born and bred St Louisan, I am appalled at my beloved city's lack of motivation to stay at the top of the list. I'm tempted to go up set fire to Soulard just as a motivational exercise.
post #6 of 73
Of course Sugar Land is safe, nobody can get there with all the damn construction. Same reason Katy is safe, nobody can make it past Highway 6.
post #7 of 73
I really wanted to post this. Damn.

Detroit's crime will plummet, and the population will rebound, once the Citadel is breached and the suppression field destroyed.
post #8 of 73
I'll testify to the safety of Brick and Toms River here in NJ - most of the big draws to those areas is shopping (Ocean County Mall, tons of mini-malls), and they're more like waystations to the Jersey Shore (Seaside, Point Pleasant). Camden's a bit of a shock for crime - I'd have given it to Trenton first.
post #9 of 73
Nine posts in and not one Robocop joke to show for it? Chewers are slipping.

edit: for shiteyes
post #10 of 73
We were trying not to be so obvious with it but ya just had to put it out there Johnny. Ya just had to!
post #11 of 73
Sorry to bring you grief Hocken, but you boys have to step it up, or else we'll have to change the name of this place to LaDolceVita.com, and that just ain't fucking acceptable. By the way, that was supposed to be "Robocop joke". I must be distracted, I've had Jonny McGovern's "Something For The Fellas" ringing in my head all goddamn morning - "Your face in my mussy! Boom! Boom! Your face in my mussy! Boom! Boom!".
post #12 of 73
Maybe it's just because St. Louis is one of those cities that NEVER gets shown in movies, but my first reaction to this list was: why the fuck is St. Louis so damn high?
post #13 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Happenin
why the fuck is St. Louis so damn high?
Mullets bump up the aggressiveness of the population.
post #14 of 73
Speaking of crime waves. There's one neighborhood in Cleveland that is all fucked up:

Cleveland Crimewave
post #15 of 73
Jesus. 72 hours for a house to become worthless? That's some modern marvel of efficiency right there.
post #16 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
I'll testify to the safety of Brick and Toms River here in NJ - most of the big draws to those areas is shopping (Ocean County Mall, tons of mini-malls), and they're more like waystations to the Jersey Shore (Seaside, Point Pleasant). Camden's a bit of a shock for crime - I'd have given it to Trenton first.
The reason Brick, or "Bricktucky" as it's commonly referred to in Monmouth County, is considered safe is that there's nothing worth stealing or killing.

As for Camden, come on. My cousin grew up there and was shot three times as an unintended target. It deserves the distinction.
post #17 of 73
Funny you mention Axel Foley, seeing how the guy who played Inspector Todd did in fact run for mayor of Detroit a few years back.
post #18 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady
The reason Brick, or "Bricktucky" as it's commonly referred to in Monmouth County, is considered safe is that there's nothing worth stealing or killing.

As for Camden, come on. My cousin grew up there and was shot three times as an unintended target. It deserves the distinction.
I know Camden has alot of crime, but I honestly thought Trenton would take it - I drive through it every day going to work and the shit I've seen - DAMN.

As to Brick - there's shit to steal (Rt. 88 has all those mini-malls and car dealerships, for example), it's just that I figured Brick and Toms River are just places you drive through to get to the Shore. Jackson (my turf) is pretty much the same as Brick - unless you're going to Great Adventure or the Outlet Stores, there's very little reason to stop.

"Bricktucky" - first I've heard of it, pretty funny. Now I know where all the hillbillies from my neck of the woods went.
post #19 of 73
Well Lisa, I do have this time machine that can take you back to circa '77 New York were more freaky depraved shit went on in Port Authority Bus Station than in the past five years of this country.
post #20 of 73
Listen to Ed, Lisa. He is, after all, a Doctor.
post #21 of 73
Thank you Timothy, if I could I would've certainly added to your reputation. You wacky priest you.
post #22 of 73


"REP! FECK! DRINK! ARSE! SEX! GIRLS!"
post #23 of 73
The Camden "love" is seconded. That place looks just like the worst Goddam parts of Newark. And given the recent upsurge of homicides in Newark, I'd bet if this survey's data were compiled today, Newark would edge Camden out.

But more to the point, where the hell is Death Surge on all this? I can't believe he let a Motor City post go un-commented upon.
post #24 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
But more to the point, where the hell is Death Surge on all this? I can't believe he let a Motor City post go un-commented upon.
Sadly, statistics would indicate that he is decomposing in an abandoned building on the south side of said city.
post #25 of 73
You must spread before repping Schwartz again blah blah blah. . .
post #26 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225
I'll testify to the safety of Brick and Toms River here in NJ - most of the big draws to those areas is shopping (Ocean County Mall, tons of mini-malls), and they're more like waystations to the Jersey Shore (Seaside, Point Pleasant).
I like that area. I wish I went down there more in the summer, but once I see a Wawa, I start back up north.
post #27 of 73
Lisa, if you're that upset, clearly it's time to take matters into your own hands. Just come on up here to Times Square and you and I can go on a shooting rampage of the fucking tourists (do they not teach walking where they come from?!?!). Tourists will stay away when it's learned that people actively hunt them and it's always, always tourist season.
post #28 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTSMGL
Puerto Rico was voted "Happiest Place in the World" on the same year we got 950+ murders (we measure 100x35 miles, so, do the math). Hightest rate in all of the USA, I believe (per capita, or something).

So, yeah, lists like these are funny.
I think most people in the US are not aware that Puerto Rico is part of the country.
post #29 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Boom
I like that area. I wish I went down there more in the summer, but once I see a Wawa, I start back up north.
Been awhile since I crossed the bridge into Seaside. I used to work in Toms River, my wife is from there and works there, etc. Brick had some good stores like Wylde Side, etc. but it's been so long since I've been there, I don't know if any of the stores I used to hit are even around anymore.

Back in the day, Seaside was THE place to hit during the summer - great clubs, a few dives, Sawmill, Castle Amusements, etc. Oh, the gorgeous girls that would shoot me down like a Messerschmidt when I was single and club-hopping... sigh. (wipes away tear)
post #30 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Happenin
Maybe it's just because St. Louis is one of those cities that NEVER gets shown in movies, but my first reaction to this list was: why the fuck is St. Louis so damn high?
I take it you don't remember what happened to the Griswalds after this scene and before the hotel antics.


EDIT: Trivia... During the St. Louis part, they show the Griswolds crossing the bridge into Missouri and *then* getting lost in what they title "East St. Louis." East St. Louis is actually in Illinois, so they would have encountered it before crossing the bridge. This has apparently been corrected in the video version.

I'm shocked Orlando isn't on there somewhere.
post #31 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8
I'm shocked Orlando isn't on there somewhere.
I'm pretty sure I heard on the news the other night that we just missed being on the list - came in around #11 or 12, I believe.

If we keep going on the pace we've been going on the past couple of years, we'll crack the top 10 next year for sure...
post #32 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayDen
I'm pretty sure I heard on the news the other night that we just missed being on the list - came in around #11 or 12, I believe.

If we keep going on the pace we've been going on the past couple of years, we'll crack the top 10 next year for sure...
Yeah, I think we pummeled our murder record in '06. By the summer, I believe.

Murder Bowl '07!
post #33 of 73
Quote:
EDIT: Trivia... During the St. Louis part, they show the Griswolds crossing the bridge into Missouri and *then* getting lost in what they title "East St. Louis." East St. Louis is actually in Illinois, so they would have encountered it before crossing the bridge. This has apparently been corrected in the video version.
More fun trivia: a good portion of Escape From New York was filmed in St. Louis.
post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty
More fun trivia: a good portion of Escape From New York was filmed in St. Louis.
No need for set dressing.
post #35 of 73
You telling me that not one city in Maine made the list of safest cities? How boring do you have to be to make the safe list? It's almost as if they knew about all the bodies I buried up there!
post #36 of 73
I thought Maine had all that freaky shit going on? You're telling me what Stephen King was putting down on the page was fictional? Bullshit on that.
post #37 of 73
King's shit was fiction. Ketchum's cannibal family, however , is stone cold fact. Now THEY'RE dangerous. So are the giant lobsters.
post #38 of 73
I'd have gone with Arkham, Massachusets myself. Especially the campus of Miskatonic University. We're talking Slaughter Central, folks.

(Fictional? Yeah, that's what THEY want you to think. Here's a tin-foil hat and a resonator. Open your third eye, my friend. Open your third eye and SEE...).
post #39 of 73
No love for the Carrefour over on Genosha? They've got pretty good deals.
post #40 of 73
Ah, screw Super Wal-Mart and Super Target. When I'm in the Castle Rock area, I'm doing my shopping at Needful Things. Gots me a Sandy Koufax card, a Bazun fishing rod, Hermann Goering's pipe, a framed picture of Elvis, and a videotape with a murder on it! And the guy behind the counter looks like Max Von Sydow!
post #41 of 73
So, Baltimore isn't even in the top ten anymore? Man, we are slacking. Hang your heads in shame Marylanders! We're letting the Midwest win!
post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller
So, Baltimore isn't even in the top ten anymore? Man, we are slacking. Hang your heads in shame Marylanders! We're letting the Midwest win!
Too late, Christopher. I expect you to have that "Bodymore, Murdaland" grafitti cleaned up by Thursday.

And seriously, I'm getting worried about Surge. He'd better show up in the Alcoholism thread with a top-notch week-long bender pretty soon or I'm going to start the mourning process.
post #43 of 73
On behalf of all Detroiters, I'd like to thank the academy for making us number one yet again. The population is down to 850,000 from 1.8 million 30 years ago. Twenty years from now, this will be a small midwestern town, population 3000, with a homicide rate of 90%.

Amusingly, Flint,MI, which is just a 45 minute drive outside of Detroit is #3. In between these two most dangerous cities in the United States lies Oakland County, the second richest county in the country.

Go figure.
post #44 of 73
From what I've gathered, most large American cities seem to have poorer populations downtown and richer ones in the extremities and suburbs. New York seems to be an exception to this, but overall this is the opposite of what I've seen in large Canadian cities. Can anyone confirm or contradict this perception?
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
In between these two most dangerous cities in the United States lies Oakland County, the second richest county in the country.
Well, that must be where all the hired killers live.
post #46 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian
From what I've gathered, most large American cities seem to have poorer populations downtown and richer ones in the extremities and suburbs. New York seems to be an exception to this, but overall this is the opposite of what I've seen in large Canadian cities. Can anyone confirm or contradict this perception?
That's true to a certain extent. However cities will have their wealthy areas depending on where you are. For example, LA's Westside (Although LA's downtown while heavily developed is a gaping hole after six. Although there have been efforts to change that). But typically downtowns have been downtrodden for a few decades and only in the past say 20 years (I think anyway) has there been this focus on urban renewal in the downtown areas. And San Francisco is extremely expensive with the exception of the horror that is The Tenderloin district.
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken
That's true to a certain extent. However cities will have their wealthy areas depending on where you are. For example, LA's Westside (Although LA's downtown while heavily developed is a gaping hole after six. Although there have been efforts to change that). But typically downtowns have been downtrodden for a few decades and only in the past say 20 years (I think anyway) has there been this focus on urban renewal in the downtown areas. And San Francisco is extremely expensive with the exception of the horror that is The Tenderloin district.
Maybe this has to do with the Evangelical Right's ability to demonize urban life and wicked. For the record, Canadian cities are much more dangerous places per capita than the country, but the average income of an urban dweller in Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa is seemingly higher than that of a suburban or rural dweller.

Maybe the broad pattern of poorer urban populations and the more liberal nature of cities has played into the significant ideological differences between Canadian and American politics, which exist despite many social similarities. It's easier to emphasize the benefits of liberal urban culture in Canada, because it more affluent than the more conservative suburban culture.
post #48 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaNewYork
Goddamn it, I'm pissed that New York City isn't on the list. I like us being thought of as dangerous. It keeps the fucking tourists away.
Sorry, Lisa: New York City's murder rate may be lowest in 40 years
post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan
To all New Yorkers:



Yeah, you take it, you morally responsible, multi-cultured, civilized, sociable, friendly, caring, kind to strangers, compassionate, intelligent, benevolent, good to animals, upstanding citizens! Haw-haw!!!
post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Ellis
Best things about Orlando are that you guys have that crazy, smelly bread factory and a Super Target.
Ah, the Merita Bread factory. I have fond memories of that place -- when we'd take long road trips down to Miami to see my grandfather when I was a kid, smelling that bread coming up I-4 meant that we were almost home.

We live in MetroWest, which used to be a nice, somewhat exclusive area of West Orlando. Then they built a Super Wal-Mart on Kirkman Road (which is essentially the eastern border of MetroWest), which started pulling customers from some of the seedier areas nearby, which chased away the upper-middle class in the area and led to an influx of lower class renters since most of the communities dropped their prices to try to lure business. Now the developer of MetroWest has hired off-duty police officers to patrol the place, things have gotten so bad. It's gotten to the point that when Wal-Mart announced they wanted to build a super center in Pine Hills (one of the seedy areas), the city practically bent over backwards to let them, hoping it would pull the "bad element" out of MetroWest and revitalize the area.

To be fair, apart from some loud neighbors and a car in flames in the parking lot about a year ago, we've had absolutely no problems, but we're also careful.
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