An obsession with "badass"

Are you against the idea of the badass or just everyone who desplays even the slightest masculine tendencies automatically labeled badass?

*beaten

Badass is good. This is why I watch movies.

I don't think this is anything new, especially in film. Wayne, Mcqueen, Eastwood, Willis. There has always been an appreciation for actors and/or characters that appear as though they could change the oil in their own car, much less bust heads.

I'm guilty as charged when it comes to this.

Be a badass for 3 grand.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/20/h...-a-mere-3-000/

It's no more overused then 'twee' recently. Can we also kill the phrase 'palate cleanser' when it comes to anything besides the actual sense of taste?

I knew this badass girl, but she sucked in bed.

I got no problem with badass when it's effortless. You try telling Lee Marvin, Lee Van Cleef, or Lee Remick to stop being charismatic yet a little bit scary. I do feel your pain when it comes to things that are badass by design. It's cynical fanboy pandering in the worst possible way. I'm thinking along the lines of anything to come out of Image Comics in the 90's, any shot at the end of a trailer that involves where a bullet goes, or people's insistance that the prequels would have been better if they were a hard R, with Darth Maul skull-fucking people and Obi-Wan calling everybody a "sumbitch." I don't care how awesome something is on a base level, if it feels inauthentic or trendy, I get tired of it real quick.

Come to think of it, a surly Obi-Wan would have been something to see...

I'd call Brolin in NO COUNTRY more "stubborn-southern man" than badass, but then again, his dog training skills are pretty badass.

Ed Harris deserves a mention in this thread.

That Obi-Wan would have been TOTALLY Badass.

I don't mind people using badass...it's the people that shorten it to BA. Like "Damn, Jason Statham was pretty BA in Crank" I mean are you that fucking lazy you can't say the whole word....and it's a short word.

I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.



seriously, though: Please enlighten me on "twee".

I too am curious on "twee".

Not sure of the appreciation, but I know I am guilty of it and gladly admit to it. My one defense of Beowulf is that he is the original, damn near the template of "badass". You telling me that the way he handled that dragon was anything less than badass? We have some words between us then.

B. A. "Mr. T" Baracus pities you, Patrick. Pities you to the core. Even if its' more his attitude than ass that's BAD.

What about fightin' polar bears? Can we still refer to them as "badass?" Because, I mean...fightin' polar bears.

Just as long as we stipulate that BAMF is the sound Nightcrawler makes when he teleports, because Dane Cook is under the impression it stands for "Bad Ass Mother F**ker".

Used to, after the Dane train derailed.

As a society, we love loners who don't say much and just get to the business at hand. No whining, no lovey dovey interest in women, no crying, no political message, no need for help. Just kick the asses of the people who need their asses kicked. It's the ideal we admire. That somewhere, there are men who can get things done without any BS because we certainly don't see these uncompromising people in real life. Myself included.

I agree (as a matter of fact this occurred to me last night when I caught a few minutes of Army of Darkness on cable) but that's pretty specific to the character.

But do you want the Rock getting tossed into bookcases? Sean Connery's Bond yipping excitedly and pratfalling his way through danger? Stallone doing anything but eating strained prunes?

Sometimes (The Wild Bunch or The Limey) only badass will do. Other times (Children of Men or Drunken Master) trying to go "badass" would ruin what you've got.

Quality of the entertainment aside, do you mean you'd like more Children of Men and less Bourne Trilogy? More "Chuck" and less, oh I don't know, "24?"

Here's one: did "badass" ruin the character of Ellen Ripley?

We humans like to believe that the potential for great menace and violence lies within ourselves. Among the features of the fearful primate psyche is the archtype of the Bull Ape, the alpha who does battle with the great predator. We get really excited when we think that an alpha is about to start fighting, since one way or another it's going to have big implications for the tribe.

It's all monkey politics you see.

You're obviously broken inside.

Interesting question. If you're referring to Alien Resurrection then I'd have to say yes. The change to her character kind of blurred out the whole point of the three previous movies.

Something musta happened. This ain't the same Patrick who preached to the choir in the B-Action thread about the magic of... Action Jackson.

If Carl Weathers isn't bad-ass in that flick, I don't know who is.

I winced at the "bonafide badass" moment in "Superbad", if that counts.

I was actually talking about the shift from Alien to Aliens, as I sense that that is more what Patrick is getting at. Personally, I love Aliens in the same fashion that I love Top Gun or Commando or Motley Crue, which is to say I love it with my balls (and with healthy dollops of both irony and homoerotic fetishes for guns and jet planes and Tommy Lee's unit), but it really (some would say willfully) misunderstands what Alien was all about.

I don't take as much exception to the old ultraviolence as Patrick, but I see what he means. Badass is too often a substitute for deeper, more satisfying emotions (or motivations in the creative). For example, I've only seen about 15 seconds of The Scorpion King, and never had a desire to see any more of it until I just read about the Rock squashing ants with his chin. Now it is off to Netflix to make that a must-see...

I must admit I'm surprised that picture of Diva's tush hasn't made an appearance yet.

Post of the year. And while I have to count myself a fan of Wayne and Eastwood westerns, both of whose personas would have to be termed badass, I generally agree with what you're saying.

Badass characters are generally without flaw, or at least go so unexplored that we never see their flaws. Flawed characters are interesting. Flawed characters are the ones we relate to. A character who is nothing but a force of violence who says little and kills without remorse is generally not very much fun to follow through a story. That's why these characters are usually best left where they belong: in the role of the villain's henchman, so the flawed, interesting hero can kick his ass in the third act.

Ouch.

Because it's the culmination of a damn good action movie and it works on several levels? I'm sure people were whooping and hollering in theaters when that line was spoken, but that's not its sole purpose for being. Unlike most of what's considered 'badass' these days.

But Ripley is one of the last characters I'd think of in terms of faux-badassery. And Aliens is a worthy extension of her character, in fact I'd say she's a much more interesting character in Aliens than in Alien, due in no small part to her improved performance.

Regarding the original question -- badass is just a term, it means nothing until it's applied somewhere. So what are we talking about? Resevoir Dogs is pretty badass, I don't like the word but there are times when I feel it is apt. Aliens can be badass, I guess. Ripley is not a badass.

I think it's worse when characters are written as badasses who have no business being badasses, ie. "He's the best nuclear physicist in the world, but he's also a total badass." Games tend to be worse at this than movies.

I don't mind badass, but I agree that badass alone is not enough to sell me on something. I was the one person not getting excited over the "badass" 300 trailer, or the movie itself really, and while I enjoyed Beowulf, badassitude didn't make up for a weak script.

But really, are you never in awe when a character does something amazingly hardcore and impressive? When Jason Bourne beats some guy's face with a book? When James Bond knocks a guy out and quips about it? When Ellen Ripley singlehandedly kills a queen alien? When John McClane jumps out a window with a fire hose wrapped around him?

If you can't even appreciate moments of badassery, I say stop watching movies.

Also, the ultimate example of a terrible movie being overpraised just for badass factor has to be Crank.

I once heard it said that a defining element of American heroes is that they tend to be more flawed and self-deprecating. They tend to be funny and even a little vulnerable. Guys like Rick Blaine in Casablanca and Indiana Jones (even Buffy Summers, for that matter) come to mind. Ash in Evil Dead II turns this notion on its head, since he spends far more of the movie having his ass handed to him than being "badass" (the character's made far more traditionally heroic and a little less interesting in Army of Darkness).

I'm not sure this holds up entirely, since the classic Western hero as portrayed by Eastwood and Wayne isn't exactly a barrels of laughs, but it's an interesting notion. Eastwood aside, I tend toward the funny, vulnerable archetype. I don't get the appeal of Seagal and Van Damme movies at all.

I think this is probably why I've always loved that most imperfect of perfect bands, the Replacements over something more focused and "badass" like, say, Black Flag or something. I prefer my archetypes to be a little fucked up.

Exactly (except for that CRANK stuff which I didn't quote you on). It's a perfectly fine term to describe certain actions performed by a character. I just don't know a better one-word term for Tequila sliding down a railing with a couple of 45's blazing.

Oh, and you're so not alone in dismissing the awful faux-badassness of 300.

Patrick I don't know your age but did you see Aliens in the theater when it first came out? I assure you, in 1986 this was one of the greatest moments in cinematic history. I can see why watching it today it does not seem like such a great line, but after spending two tense hours in a packed theater the line was the perfect cathartic release for everyone watching.

At least for me, it's more of a "that was a great fucking moment back in the day" not so much a "that line gets me every time! (fist pump)"

Badass characters are the wish-fulfillment avatars for the visceral (and instinctual) needs of the movie-goer/game-player/comic-reader.

Whether it's Master Chief (who is merely that= an empty, yet equipped, avatar), Batman (deeply flawed/effected character that still maintains badassery), or the no-nonsense machine Terminator (who allowed us to root for him as the villain and the hero)... badass heroes are a staple in all cultures. All mythologies had/have them (flawed in various degrees) and they represent the desire to triumph over unsurmountable odds or foes.

The unlikely/reluctant hero stepping up and filling that role (Shaun of the Dead, Die Hard, Evil Dead 2), is especially "badass", because they beat the odds and surpassed their underdog status.

I'm not a big fan of sports (I do like a good fight though), but the same hunger exists there in that arena as well.

EDIT: Sometimes it's gladiator-games blood-lust ("Yeah, chop up those teenagers, Jason!"), sometimes it's pride ("Go Sox!"), but sometimes it's a piece of ourselves that we wish we had (Would I be able to take the death of my parents in an alley-way and find a way to benefit my fellow man using my own self-sacrafice and discipline?). Sometimes, it's a mixture of all 3 (rooting for your troops in times of war, etc). These are just examples, but "Badass" doesn't have to mean one thing and not all reasons are admirable.

Twee It's become a de facto term for something that the critic thinks is lame or girly. It started showing up on a regular basis about a year and a half ago and it's use seems to be getting out of hand. Beaks is the only person I've seen who used it even remotely correctly.

It's been alluded to before, but part of the fun is watching said "badass" characters evolve into their current level of "badassery". We saw Ripley evolve this way from Alien to Aliens, Ash from each Evil Dead movie, etc. and we even got to see Ripley make the ultimate sacrifice in Alien 3, just like many epic heroes do (for example Leonidas in 300, Beowulf, etc.). Willingly, heroically, sacrificing yourself to save others is noble, and automatically "badass".

Is the term being overused? Sure, just like every other buzzword that's out there, but such things eventually pass. Prior to this year, it's been quite awhile since "badass" was bandied about, and I suspect after this year, it'll go dormant again.

There's no rule saying a badass can't talk his shit up. In fact, if you can talk the game AND back it up, you're even more of a badass.

I always took the "badass" introduction of the marines as a setup. It's a lot more shocking and entertaining to see them get their asses handed to them if they're presented as something better than a bunch of red shirts. And while I can easily understand somebody preferring Alien to Aliens, I can't abide by this "Aliens sucks" mentality. I mean, come on! And here's the thing, for as many badass 80's action movie elements found in Aliens, they're balanced by the fact that Cameron and Weaver actually bother to develop Ripley as a human being. This is especially true in the special edition version.

And I can't believe it never occurred to me that 300 is the perfect movie to rip on in this thread.

The reason the Ripley 'bitch' line stands out so much is because it's the moment where she becomes the female action hero. All of the cool lines in action movies have always been meted out to men, and here we have a strong woman asserting herself with a line that's perfectly tough and yet feminine at the same time. Previous to the end of Aliens, Ripley did a lot of running and hiding. When her maternal instincts take over when Newt is captured, she changes into an even stronger woman, who is unafraid to face evil. The moment is one mother standing up to another and taking her place in the lexicon of action heroes at the same time.

It's not that the line itself is spectacular, it's what it represents. And it's badass.

And hating Aliens? That's just poor taste, Ripoll.

I loved that, and always found it eminently believable. He goes to pieces when the command structure is taken out, and doesn't have orders to act on. He can't stand sitting around and thinking about what's coming for them, but once the guns start blazing again he's right back to being a soldier. I imagine you could see this kind of shift happen to plenty of people in plenty of wars.

Point of order: Vasquez can do chinups on my bar any time.

She can handle my pulse rife.