The People Vs. Luke Skywalker - Page 2

All Luke was missing was a John Deere hat and a PBR tall boy.

In the EU, the battle to reclaim Coruscant went off and on for almost a decade after the Battle of Endor.

There's the entire Zahn trilogy with Grand Admiral Thrawn. There's the Dark Empire books with the Clone Emperor. Eventually, there's the massive Vong Epic that Patrick Sauriol (Hey man!) brought up.

After Endor and the Truce at Bakura, the Alliance was able to reclaim a ton of Star Destroyers and convert them to Republic standards. Most Imperial outposts they met either surrendered or rallied around Thrawn or other insurgent elements until they were eventually beat back.

What I told you was true...from a certain point of view.

Don't you think that in the fucked-up minds of terrorists they viewed the WTC as a de facto military target? It was a symbol of American power they obviously considered a threat to their way of life. Money can be a weapon too.

The World Trade Center didn't float over and destroy Oman though.

And Oman wasn't destroyed. And Luke didn't die in the Battle of Yavin. But Dick Cheney can shoot Sith lightning out of his fingertips, so there's that...

I always got the impression from Vader's antics in Empire that there were plenty of Imperial officers who would gladly follow whoever offed him and the Emperor. Picture the Winkies in The Wizard of Oz who take all of two seconds after the Wicked Witch dies to get over it.

I think this thread needs to derail just long enough to recognize the fact that Patrick fucking Sauriol just posted here. This guy is a fucking hero, the founder of Corona Coming Attractions, which was right up there with CHUD as the greatest movie websites of all time. Sir, it's an honor. I started reading your site way back when I was a freshman in high school, and it opened up my eyes to the whole concept of development hell and the amazing world of movies that might have been. It was only from your site that I found places like CHUD, AICN, and Dark Horizons. I wish Corona Coming Attractions was still around in its original form, but what can ya do.

Now, on with the geekery!

Clearly, the next Democratic presidential debate needs to take place at Comic-Con.

And it needs to involve swordfights.

Shame on you people for not recognizing the fact that many Bothans died to blah blah blah. How many is that? I'm not sure.

MANY.

And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts, that the empire was responsible.









MANY.

The Bothans were the day laborers of the Star Wars Universe. There were plenty of them to run suicide missions, commit espionage and clean your gutters.

Seriously, god bless all of you in this thread. This is awesome. Please continue.

Say what? That makes NO sense, given the fact that he is, hello, SITH.

This is why "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" and this guy:

http://www.revolutionsf.com/bb/weblo...89e8d91860.jpg

were my last trips to the EU.

"I am Darth Nihilus!" (muffled) "Gamorrean Guard!"

The death star was a legit military target, but Luke could be guilty of stealing a red Corvette Stingray that wasn't actually his. His wife Qui-Annie-Potts would be an accessory.

I never considered the Marvel comic or Splinter of the Mind's Eye to be Expanded Universe, though Splinter was later grandfathered in with a graphic-novel adaptation. EU is the stuff cooked up in the '90s to sell trading cards.

Anyway, Jaxxon and Don-Wan Kioti kicked ass.

I could've taken the Essential Guide to Characters off my shelf if I was at home, but I typed that from work. And wikipedia was just too difficult to type into the banner line.

Seriously though, that whole Brian Yuzna Vong thing takes up the last third of the Essential Chronology book. I'm glad I never sat down a read it all, it seems very frustrating, though the left over Imperials helping the New Republic out sounded kind of cool.

this needs to be printed and put into print form

No, it wasn't. That Yuzzhan Vong series of novels was the last nail in the coffin that was my Star Wars fandom. It was a five year series comprised of maybe 30 books, and I got suckered into buying maybe 20-25 of them before I realized the series was really stupid.

I used to devour that EU crap back in the day, though. I'm still kind of fascinated by the series of Imperial rulers after Palpy kicked the bucket: First there was Sate Pestage who, after about a week on the job, realized he'd be the target of numerous assasination plots and tried to hand over the keys of the Empire to the Rebels. Then the Head of Imperial Intelligence Ysanne Isard took over, completely conceded Coruscant to the New Republic even though they didn't have the firepower to take it by force, simply because she had some ridiculous plan to poison the Republic leadership or something. Then Thrawn took over, and despite his brilliant tactical mind he was too stupid to realize that enslaving and brutalizing an entire race and forcing them to be your personal bodyguards might not be the brightest idea. Then the Empire splits into a dozen smaller empires with their own warlords, who then decide to join forces, retake Coruscant, and then tear it apart fighting amongst themselves. Then the Emperor's clone takes over and empties the Empire's treasury creating a series of ineffective, easily destroyed superweapons, then finally Admiral Daala takes over and effectively kills the Empire once and for all by leading half of the Imperial fleet directly into a black hole. Talk about a succession of fuck-ups.

Okay, enough "essential" chronology. On topic: Luke may have been personally responsible for popping the Death Star, but getting there took a lot of enabling. He didn't steal the plans, supply his own fighter ship or perform the data analysis that identified the exhaust port as a weakness. He wasn't a leader in the Rebellion at the time. Depending on how a legal interpretation of 'using the Force' shakes out, he may not even have been responsible for his actions in the Trench.

I think Han's in greater danger of prosecution: trafficking, sabotage, receiving payment for services rendered. Thoughts?

Han's a hired gun. Legal liability falls on the Organa household. They undertook the mission using official government property to transport stolen government Intel across the Galaxy for the purpose of outright treason against the Empire.

Besides, Han didn't know he was getting involved in the Rebellion until he was neck-deep in it. He probably figured Luke and Ben had robbed the First Bank of Tatooine or something.

Post-Alderaan, that leaves Leia (adopted or not) holding the bag for the whole scheme.

Well, you have to prove Post-Alderaan and Post Death Star I that Leia was the culprit.

Most of the Imperials that would know of her guilt are now vaporized over Yavin IV.

Does this mean Vader was off the reservation in Empire? Because he knew, and yet it didn't seem like much of a priority when he was torturing everyone on Bespin.

Vader was off the reservation from Revenge of the Sith. He had no intention in participating in the Galactic Empire, since he wanted to overthrow Palpatine from Day One.

It would be like the Continental Congress putting to death every Loyalist in the new America that they found.

Another example would be President Johnson executing General Lee and the other Confederate military leaders for the role in the American Civil War. It's more about the defeat rather than the particulars of hunting down each and every member.

The Nuremberg Trials analogy doesn't really apply in the matter of a Civil War.

All those people were basically sitting in a gigantic planet destroying weapon in a time of war. They had just blown up a planet, and were about to destroy another one.

BTW the whole "the Emperor offered sanctuary to the people fo Alderaan in the EU" is absolutely ridiculous, and better to be ignored.

Objection overridden. The quality of the material isn't at issue here, counselor. It's relevant to the matter at hand, and therefore admissible as evidence.

Prosecution may continue.

Look, let's just get this over to The People's Court and be done with it.

"Look here Mr. Vader, don't use the force to make me think you're peeing down my leg and tell me it's raining!"

This conversation is just ridiculous.

I mean, come on. Judge Judy doesn't even run a criminal court.

So... they could get him on destruction of property. Proceed.

I didn't even have to try to read that in Judge Judy's voice, it just came natural.

Firstly, since Lucas has liberally ignored EU material in the past, I move that all EU material be ruled inadmissable and that only evidence from the actual films be accepted.

Second, keep in mind the fact that the New Republic isn't going to put one of its greatest heroes on trial for war crimes for acts committed during the rebellion against the Empire. Since that very rebellion is what caused the New Republic to come into existence in the first place, treating a key act in its creation as a crime would be to question the very validity of the New Republic and dangerously destabilize its claim to authority.

However, Luke could be in some hot water back on Tatooine. His desire to leave for the Academy was well known, as was his uncle's reluctance to let him do so. Then his aunt and uncle conveniently die, almost immediately after which Luke leaves the planet illegally. And then, for all intents and purposes, he kills his father. He had opportunity, motive and a demonstrated pattern of behavior. Therefore, I accuse Luke Skywalker of the murder of Owen and Beru Lars.

Much of this is going to rely on inadmissible hearsay, particularly the "demonstrated patttern", as evidence of propensity for murder is hardly ever allowed.

Furthermore, don't think that you're going to get to parade 25 pictures of smoking skeletons in front of the jury. Such evidence is needlessly cumulative and unduly prejudicial. You get 1, maybe 2 for the purpose of establishing cause of death (in this case, massive flesh loss).

Luke's got an alibi, he was with the droids when the murders were comitted, and droids can't lie... Can they?

Well, you can always wipe their memory.

Well, we can detect if and when their memories were wiped. Also, even in the case of a memory wipe, depending on the technology used, the lost memory can most likely be recovered. So I wouldn't dismiss the account of the droids.

And Luke didn't leave any planet "illegally", he was escaping Imperial officers and maybe breaking imperial law. Why would we judge him based on the law of the defeated party?

This double post has been mind wiped.

If we're accusing Luke in the death of his relatives, do we also try to charge him in the death of the Jawas?

You can pin the Jawa deaths on native Tusken Raiders. Most people wouldn't care to investigate.


Still, how can you charge Luke for crimes under Imperial Law when the Empire was disbanded?

Being that Tatooine harbors the Capitol of Scum and Villainy (Mos Eisley) of the galaxy, they probably high-five and throw a parade for that kinda shit there.

Given that the Republic was brutally betrayed, overthrown and destroyed by a despot working those Republic laws to his advantage...I think Mon Mothma would be willing to make an exception.

Here's a little wrinkle: at what point did Luke officially join the rebellion? As an officer in the Alliance, anybody he kills can be excused as the actions of a soldier in time of war. But in the first film, he's just some kid who left the farm and is running around with a known mercenary and outlaw, gunning down Imperial soldiers. There's got to be some legal ramifications to that.

And while it's more or less a given that if the New Republic winds up in charge, Luke will get away scott free, I think that what we're considering here is the possibility of being charged by the "current" administration. As has been mentioned, the death of the Emperor hardly means the complete overthrow of the Empire. It's possible that, at some point, Luke could be captured and brought to justice.

As for the EU being inadmissible, everybody who creates this material swears up and down that Lucas himself has to approve every story element, and that everything that happens in these stories is "canon". So, as weak as I may personally believe this crap to be, it really should be considered. Besides, it gives the poor saps who've wasted their lives reading this garbage a chance to feel better about knowing such stuff.

Materials from the films are like Supreme Court decisions; binding on all subsequent proceedings*. EU is decisions from other jurisidictions; relevant for precedent, but not strictly binding on the decision at hand.


*Unfortunately, the SC can overturn itself, which means, legally, Greedo shot first.

Lucas has to approve everything because they're his characters, but he can -- and has -- completely disregarded large chunks of EU material.