Evil curse words destroy your virginal minds

It's okay, they'll be dead soon.

In this situation it's pretty much you who isn't "hanging loose".
Someone politely asked you to stop using swear words, and you take it as some sort of insult.

I hear you man, some people should loosen up. But it's their choice not to, and not saying swear words when such people are around isn't that immense a lifestyle cost.

Which is why you'll never catch Barzun swearing in the kitchen.

You are always going to have people who find cusswords offensive. The reason those words bother them can be for several reasons. Based on my life experience I've found several reasons for this.

- People raised in abusive households who equate cussing with abuse.
- Religious people who have been raised not to use or allow in their home/surroundings that language.
- In certain circles (social gatherings, family reunions) such words are simply inappropriate (the Queen of England or my mother greeting people with "how the fuck have you been?")

I just don't ever see a day when cussing will be common practice.

There's nothing awesomer than a swearin' girl, especially ones who think shouting a Raging Bull "YOU FUCK MY WIFE?" is hilarious.

I thought children were found on the basement, not on the kitchen. That's sick, man.

I don't know... I think I disagree on principle. If there is no good reason behind the request, I don't see it as my responsibility to appease the wants and desires of everyone around me (although I would certainily try if I felt the request was reasonable and warranted).

Now, I'm talking all tough, but I don't swear that much... well, not in public anyway, and I think I'm a pretty nice guy, so I actually might stop... but I wouldn't fault someone for not stopping.

Put in some equally ridiculous request (and yes, I find people who think swearing around other adults is offensive to be ridiculous). Someone politely asks you to stop saying the word, "blue." Someone respectfully asks you to do 10 jumping jacks. Why?

And, yes, Nexus... I would take it as some sort of an insult. The implication is that the person swearing is doing something wrong. They are being chastised. Why wouldn't that be insulting?

This reminds me of a similar instance. I was in a restaurant with no dress code beyond the obvious shirt/shoes/pants required, but it was common for people to dress up a bit when they went there. It was in an old inn, a fair % of the clientelle were senior citizens and Church goers in their Sunday best. A woman at a nearby table had the nerve to tell me that I shouldn't be wearing shorts and a baseball hat in the restaurant. She thought I should take the hat off and make sure to not wear shorts there again, although I assume she probably wanted me out of the restaurant immediately based on her facial expression. I didn't think that her ugly knit sweater should be worn in the restaurant, but I wasn't going to say anything.

Fuck people who want the rest of us to follow their bizarre social "norms" that have no relevance to every day life and aren't hurting anyone.

Having said all that, I do try not to be offensive (and I rarely swear in public like I said), but I do it both as a kindness to the fools who find it offensive, and as a means to avoid confrontation, because I have better things to do than argue with some ignorant asshole every time I say something "offensive" to a friend... although I apparenly don't have anything better to do right now as I'm arguing away on an internet message board.

As for the "it's not hard to do" argument, who cares? My life isn't about doing things that are "not hard to do" whenever someone asks. Mind your fucking business or don't go outside if you're that easily offended by complete and utter nonsense like big, bad swear words.

I'd respond to that, but Eileen, and Lisa would have to cover their sweet little ears.

Courtesy is about making others feel comfortable. It's a small self-sacrifice that acts as a social lubricant, making it easier for all of us to get along.

It is courteous not to ask others to do (or refrain from doing) things that are harmless. It is a small self-sacrifice that acts as a social lubricant, making it easier for all of us to get along.

Funny. My social lubricant is lots of alcohol.

Well played.

Why is it rude?

And why is what I said any dumber than what Frank said?

A few years ago some friends and I were sitting in an Applebee's bar for happy hour (don't judge, not many bars around there with less than 7 dollars beers). This particular bar was closed off from the rest of the restaurant completely, as in you had to open another set of doors to get into it. It was four of us, and then a couple who looked to be in their 50's or so, and that was it. Plenty of beers in, my one friend is dropping f bombs like the word will be taken away tomorrow, and the rest of us are keeping up pretty well. After a bit, the guy in his fifties haughtily shouts over "I think we could do without the language!". The most reserved guy in our group just looks him dead in the eye and says "You know, we're in a bar, lighten up". Through the years however, when I tell the story, my friends morphs into a bad-ass Christopher Walken, "Old man, I don't like the way you're talkin at me, it's all wrong. My friends...they work hard.....and sometimes they say fuck, a lot. Who the fuck are you, old man?" You're a cocksucking cantaloupe!"

In any event, after they left, the bartender says the guy is some local politician. I told him, as we left him a hefty fuckin tip, to tell the old fart he's lucky I don't live in his district, and to go fuck himself. The bartender laughed and gave us another round, so I'm pretty sure that's all that mattered at the end of the day.
I mean, I don't swear around kids, and when mine's old enough to be affected, I hope people share the same courtesy, but in a bar full of adults, it's fair fucking game.

Do you watch what you say around your parents/grandparents or is it anything goes with the language?

Children are young impressionable, and repeat stuff at inappropriate moments. the elderly grew up in a different era where swearing carried more of a weight and sting to it. Women have vaginas. Please explain how that's the same thing

I only have 1 grandparent left, and he swears more than I do (although I believe he kept it to himself until I was college ages, because I don't really remember him swearing when I was younger).

I swear around my parents now that I'm older and self-sufficient (i.e., don't fear punishment). I don't swear hard-core (like I said numerous times, I don't swear that much in general), only when I feel it has a purpose and adds to what I am saying (similar to how I choose ALL of my words). If fuck is the best word to use in a given situation, then by fuck I'll use it! It splendid is the best word, then by fuck I'll use that!

If I hold back from swearing around adults, it is because I suspect they wouldn't like it, and I probably don't feel like a confrontation at the time.

I guess to phrase this all slightly differently, I am of the general belief that we should have as much freedom to do as we please until we bringing harm to others (that is overly simplified, but I think you see my point).

Allowing people to swear, wear baggy pants, do vertical push-ups against a tree in a park, walk slightly faster than you, drive a foreign made car, whatever... is allowing people their freedom.

Thinking that you should be able to moderate people's "cursing," clothing, innocuous actions, purchasing choices (without a seriously good reason), etc, is taking away someone's freedom.

Do we see the difference? Asking someone NOT to do something is inherently worse than doing something that someone else doesn't want (unless, like I've said numerous times, there is a good reason not to, i.e., harm is coming to someone because of it, etc.).

Someone asking you to stop isn't taking away a freedom, it'd only be so if they were somehow able to enforce it on you. If anything you're taking away their right to chose the types of verbal content they are exposed to.

It is if it's seen thru "Raging Flintstone"

I thought I could write that up quickly without having to create a 5 page treatise outlining exactly what I meant, apparently I was wrong.

I didn't mean to imply that they WERE taking away a freedom, but if their request is met, they are basically doing that. You are correct that unless they force you to stop, they are not stopping you, merely asking. Is that not still extremely presumptious on their part, though?

Pardon me, I'm very offended that you are voting... don't vote. If someone said that to you, would you not consider that rude as they are asking you to stop doing something that is your right? Your vote may offend them (perhaps you are voting Democrat, and they are Republican), but it is rude to REQUEST that someone give up a freedom with a valid reason.

Does that clear up what I was trying to say?

In an exagerated sense I guess, but it's more akin to asking someone to put a cigarette out. That's maybe an exageration in the other direction as swearing isn't exactly harmful to their health.

Not just swearing, but some actual conversation topics are taboo in public places as I found out. Like chronic masterbation and pedophiles.

I am no longer welcome at Aplebees.

Yeah, I don't think cigarettes work for exactly that reason.

However, I would say asking someone not to swear would be the equivalent of asking someone who has an unlit cigarette in their mouth to remove it because the idea of cigarettes is offensive to them, and they don't want to have to look at it.

Which I also think is ridiculoud.

You're always welcome at my place, Syd. You are a 13 year old boy, right?

Exactly and how small a deal would it be to simply not have an unlit cigarette in your mouth for a little while. Asking someone to modify their language is a presumption but at the end of the day such a minor one that it's just not worth kicking up a fuss about.

Once again... NOT asking someone to stop dong something (like swearing or removing a cigarette) is also so simple that people should stop doing it, it just isn't worth kicking up a fuss about.

In fact, I'd argue that it is probably always simpler to do nothing (or maintain intertia as it were), so if we are arguing for simplicity, it is simpler for "the complainer" not to complain, and it is simpler for "the action taker" to continue with their current course of action.

Why is the onus on the person doing the task that isn't hurting anyone? There was no problem until the other person complained. Stopping them from complaining gets to the heart of the problem much faster (and more "simply").

Freedom really doesn't have much to do with it. Keep in mind, not everyone talks like they do on CHUD boards (although sometimes I wish). If someone politely asks you to stop swearing, you're free to tell them to, "Fuck off" - if you wanted to be a dick about it. More than likely, they're asking you to stop for a reason: it's making them, or present company uncomfortable. You wouldn't keep kicking the person in front of you's chair for that reason. It's just good manners.

Of course, if you're at a bar during happy hour or you just finished watching a matinée of Casino, I doubt you'll offend the attending contingent. Read Phil's post, his David Cross quote is fitting (BTW, isn't that from Shut Up You Fucking Baby! Funny stuff right there.)

Well it comes down to how offended the person is. If you're behaviour is for whatever reason ruining their dining experience then I think they're entitled to politely ask you tone it down. I'm in the boat of it's the intention of words that matter not the words themselves, but if someone has had something else ingrained into their psyche then it sucks to be them so why not help them out?

Common courtesy. Apparently becoming less common.

Does the swearing make you feel better, or improve your day? The simple and (hopefully) polite request for less swearing, when acquiesced to, will make someone else feel better, or less uncomfortable.

Doing this for someone else is not supposed to pay dividends to you. It won't solve global warming or make the requester or requestee a millionaire. But, without sounding too much like Oprah, when you do something courteous for someone else, I like to think that simple selfless act will make you a better person and perhaps have a positive effect on the person making the request.

Pay it forward, and all that bullshit.

Yeah, I mean I definitely agree that it is "nice" to comply with the poor people being offended. And like I think I said before, I rarely swear in public, and I would probably stop if asked... but I still find it rude for them to even ask. It makes me angry and causes my blood pressure to rise when people think they can ask me to do something like that. So, they are harming me, and that means that they have bad manners.

Do you see how we can keep going at this? If you are going to say that a person swearing and not stopping when asked has bad manners, we can just as easily say that the person doing the asking also has bad manners.

If I say, "please don't ask to me stop swearing, I find that offensive" and they ask again... who is being offensive and rude now?

Tieman,

Does the asking of people to stop swearing make you feel better, or improve your day? The simple and (hopefully) polite minding of your own business in the face of people who are swearing, when practiced properly, will make someone else feel better, or less uncomfortable.

There are countless things that have been done for generations that are completely worthless, ignorant, rude and wasteful... that is never a defense for something.

Once again, I find your condescending attitude to be more rude than the possibility of me swearing in public (which I'll say for probably the 5th time is something that I don't really do... defending something does mean that I engage in it).

My parents don't swear (well, they've probably swore at some point, but they aren't people who swear in general), and I've actually convinced them that it is silly for them to be offended by swearing (they are nice, moral, polite Christians who raised me in the same manner). They listened to my reasoning, and ultimately agreed. Those bastards!

Someone needs to learn the difference between a person posing a hypothetical question to further a debate and a person not understanding something. Also you are a the rudest person in this thread, so I don't think anybody will be taking tips on manners from you.

I find it depressing that the focus is on how you feel and not thinking about others, too.

Personally, I have no issues with swearing. I don't bother people who use those words as part of their regular lexicon. Like David Cross, I find individuals (not you, since you have mentioned you're not a big public swearer, which I applaud) who swear constantly a bit lazy, but that's about it.

However, if I was out with my grandparents in a public place (not a bar, etc.) and they felt uncomfortable by the excessive swearing of someone else, I would have no problem asking that individual to tone it down a bit.

The "asking me to stop swearing is rude too" arguement really doesn't hold water, either. Swearing, especially excessively, is comonly considered in poor taste, while asking someone to cut it out is not.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, so I apologize for not responding to this adequately. I'm being serious, I've made many posts, and I really don't which you are talking about.

If you point out which post you mean, I'll happily respond.

I'm really not a rude person as far as I've been told, although to be fair, you did specifically say "in this thread." I'm fairly polite and reasonable (check my recent posting history if you really want) in general, but I feel people are being blinded by what they've been told is proper without thinking about what really makes something proper (or rude).

Isn't there a rational thought somewhere you need to be shitting on?

What?

Quote somewhere where I said that.

I said asking someone to refrain from partaking in an action that is causing no real harm (i.e., asking someone to stop saying some particular word, whether it be "cursing" or not) is rude.

I never said not saying a particular word is rude.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but you're making things up and putting them into my mouth. If you want to keep this going, please respond to what I'm actually saying.

Horrid is referring to Barzun (who is ruining a good discussion), not you Mike.

Not yours, edited that post to include quote and clarify.

I admit I'm playing more than a bit of Devil's Advocate here (i.e., I'm going a little overboard in arguing for something that I don't even really do)... but don't you see how we can say the reverse to the other person (the one complaining)? They are only thinking of their own feelings (the swearing is making them uncomfortable)... they are not thinking about how their request could affect others (the ones swearing).

Sure, I completely agree... accept I don't accept "commonly considered" as reasonable rational for anything. As per my example way, way up above, lots of people that frequented that restaurant considered it rude to wear a hat and a shorts... but why? I doubt they even knew... it was just that it was commonly accepted.

I propose every person rationally consider why they are reacting the way they are, and stop if their actions make no reasonable sense. Hats, shorts, and swearing aren't hurting anyone, so I think it is a bit rude and presumptious to request that people refrain from those activities because it is bothering you... because in making that request you are being selfish.

Oops! Sorry for misreading your post, Horrid.

Thanks for clearing that up, Tieman.

I feel dumb now.

I believe you'll find saying there should be one set of rules for women and one for men is sexist, Barzun, and if you reread the thread you'd see that I don't agree with mikes point of view, but chose not to tell him to fuck off, and managed to not insult his parents.

I hate to keep feeding you... but I think you were the only one who used the word sexist in this thread.

Horrid was merely (and correctly) pointing out that there are perhaps good reasons to not swear in front of children (their general lack of understanding of language and the intentions and "appropriate" uses of swear words) and the elderly (much different social norms when they grew up, so it might be more respectful to avoid cursing in front of them), and women... whom I believe Horrid feels should not be considered any differently than men... i.e., Horrid is NOT sexist and was pointing out a little flaw in your statemtn (which I realize was a joke, but it IS interesting to consider the differences between swearing in front of different social/cultural/gender/etc groups, and to not lump them all in together).

You beat me to it, but yep. You said it more concisely than I did, but that is exactly what I got from your previous posts.

You can insult my parents a little if you want, though, they made me choose between a NES and a remote control car one Christmas instead of getting me both, so they kind of deserve it.

Yes... but see, what if a whole bunch of people in a room arbitrarily started being offended by the words "the", "a", and "and" for instance. Sure... using them may "hurt" people... but shouldn't we consider whether or not those things SHOULD hurt them (i.e., is there a good reason for it hurting them... should they be offended or hurt by it)?

My guess is that most people are offended by swear words because their parents, teachers, etc. TOLD them to be offended by swear words and made them taboo. Massive societal misunderstandings do not equal rational or correct thinking.

I people start getting emotional distraught when you eat ice cream, are you going to stop eating ice cream? It just seems bizarre that people who engage (or avoid engaging) in an activity just because lots of people think that is how it should be. No, I take that back... that is not bizarre at all, it makes LOTS of sense psychologically speaking... but I don't understand DEFENDING it...

Barzun. All those things you mentioned are fine, however almost all the women I know, who are among the most decent people you could hope to meet, swear as much if not more than most of the guys I know. It seem patently ridiculous to not swear around women as though they'll shatter at the drop of an F bomb. How about taking people on an individual level and if cussing ain't their thing or if the situation isn't appropriate drop those words out of your vocabulary.

Ok... let us try to not veer too far off topic here.

Nobody said chivalry was sexist (nobody sid ANYTHING about chivalry).

We are talking about cursing and swearing.

I actually don't even consider cursing and swearing to be a major part of chivalry (and perhaps not even a part of chivalry at all).

Horrid was saying that IF you are going to talk about swearing in front of various groups of people... THEN it should be noted that there may be different reasons for swearing or not swearing in front of them.

He never said that you SHOULD swear in front of women... he just said that your decision whether or not to do so will likely not be for the same reasons as your decision whether or not to do so in front of children and the elderly.

Whew... back on topic now, please?

Prison inmates.

If you intended that question to make a serious point (and I'm not saying that you did), then I'd argue that people who think like that are full of prejudice and prone to stereotyping. Just because some action is more highly correlated with a group that has negative traits (real or perceived), does not mean that every individual (or even most) that partake in that action also have that negative trait. That would be a logical fallacy.

Also, I don't feel like my questions are asinine. I feel like they are more succinct ways to bring up points that might take much longer to establish on their own (although I have been trying to clarify my points as well).

Well, thanks for the "nice enough" part, I suppose.

Once again, though... you post a seemingly irrelevant post (or at least one that is not well defended), and I try my best to respond... and you reply with another post that doesn't address any of my points.

Also, seeing as Horrid and Tieman would debating just fine with me, I don't think I'm completely incomprehensible.

In addition, many of the argument techniques or styles that I'm using are pretty common in philosophy, so I'm not sure what else to do. I feel like I reasonably clear in my explanations (other people are responding just fine to me), and you appear to be... well, I'm not sure... and I suppose that is the problem.

We can always go our separate ways, and I can continue this discussion with anyone else who pops on that does not think my argument points are completely nonsensical.