Rorschach's Journal

Are you asking what's the point to the Journal or all of the peripheral material after the events of each chapter in "Watchmen"?

It was a statement that played well to Rorschach's nature. He was always going to fuck up Ozymandias's plan. Throwing off the symmetry in the book itself was just a way to comment on it. But, it meant nothing as it did later on.

He could posture and make noise, but in a world where people like Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan exist...you end up meaning nothing.

Oh ok. I misread what you wrote. The epilogue with the talk of Redford running for President, right? I've got a bunch of Tom Strong stuff up by the computer and I don't have Watchmen right in front of me.

I think Jonah Weiland commented on how the epilogue tied back to the opening intro with Rorschach and how it restarts the cyclic nature of the story with new framing, but I can't seem to find the wording anywhere.

Great point to bring up, though.

The last panel is like a rorschach blot: it allows for a wide degree of reader inference. When I first read Watchmen, I was reminded of the ending to Raiders of the Lost Ark, with the ark lost in a warehouse full of boxes.

Today, though, I see the final panel as an example of the flaw in Ozymandias' plan. He believed he could account for any eventuality, yet he had overlooked something as basic letter to the editor. Rorschach's journal will , in fact, be made public ... and even if most people refuse to believe it, it doesn't take much controversy to undermine a social movement. Just ask Karl Rove.

Well actually, right as he's mailing it off, the journal says (and I'm quoting from memory here) something to the effect of "Whatever conspiracy is going on here, Veidt is behind it."

Of course, it's unlikely that either editor, as depicted by their personalities, will have the patience to wade through the whole thing. Though I found it strange that Rorschach didn't put on the cover, or at least the front page "Rorschach's journal"; if they had seen that, they'd have more incentive to read it. As it stands now, the first section does seem like the rambling of a madman. (Which I suppose it is...so I guess I should say a "non famous madman")

Now you've got my mind a-workin'.

Yeah, but the point is that the threat is still there ... the ending merely adds tension and underlines Dr. Manhattan's message that nothing is ever resolved. We can speculate all we want on how the journal might or might not be used, but it's all just speculation. The journal is there. The threat is there. All of Ozy's plans will eventually come undone, even without the journal.

Influence in what way? There's one point in the story where Manhattan says the only person of interest at the meeting of all the heroes was Ozymandias (or maybe it's the other way around. it's been a while since I read the book). I think that's the only explicit mention of any kind of special relationship but I think you can infer that Ozy wished he had the kind of power and knowledge of Manhattan.

I just finished reading this for the first time last night, and have been mulling over the ending since then. I think the final frame and line signify what Rorshach represented: not every single person will accept something, no matter how damning and convincing it may be. Look at JFK or the moon landing. Look at all the conspiracies around 9/11, and look how big that was, and how that supposedly "united us". Unfortunately Ozymandias did not get to live through 9/11 first, as it's pretty obvious the unity doesn't last long. Even right after there were dissenting voices, and people that didn't agree with war. In the Watchmen universe, the unity against an intergallactic unseen force would only last a year in my eyes. There would be disagreements over how to fight it, some other quandry, investigations into Ozymandias or anyone else strong enough to pull something like that off.

I don't understand, actually how he did not have the forsight to see how temporary his victory was. I kind of saw it as more of a vanity thing anyway. And also, there is also the factor of Dr. Manhatten. The world knows about him, someone so amazing, who can do anything, so how long would the shock of aliens last?

In short, the journal reinforces what Manhatten said. Nothing ever ends, we never "learn" and events are relative. Eventually, everyone in the story and world will get old and die, and Ozymandias's plan will be a speck in the history of things.


Although, there is also the curious line of Mahatten's. That he might go "Create some life" in another galaxy. Maybe he plans to back up Ozymandias's creation with the real thing? Maybe his last line was a "time to put your money where your mouth is" type of thing? Sorry, I just finished it last night, my head is spinning still.

Fucking cocksucking thing logged me out and I just lost several hundred words on the subject. Motherfucker that shit is tiring.

I may repost it in the main Watchmen thread, if you're looking for a centralized place to discuss these sort of things.

There's an obvious irony in the fact that Rorschach believes he's going to get the truth out, but even though he's right, his journal is going to be dismissed as crazy. Even if the paper does publish it, the only person who would read Rorschach's stuff and believe it are the kind of whacko Rorschach was. The book
is pretty damn emphatic this is a crazy right-wing rag in the first place, and even amongst the staff they don't take everything they put in it seriously, which is why Rorschach's book is in the crank file.

In the arrest report contained in the back of the "The Abyss Gazes Also" issue, Rorschach's journal is listed as "one notebook, pages filled with what is either an elaborate cypher or handwriting too cramped and eccentric to be legible". Does it just read as gibberish, or is the report lazy policework?

I love the final frame. I always took it to suggest, "where we end up is entirely up to us."

Rather than Veidt deciding for everyone.

I have lost my copy of watchmen (lent it out, and never saw it again), but doesn't he mention something about the cypher or such when he gets the whole journal ? Like those were some working notes or something (implying that the mailed journal would be readable) ?

I'm in the middle of re-readin'. I'll get back to ya.

Edit: It's one of the things he makes Dan go back to his apartment for, in addition to the spare costume.

Yeah, when he goes to mail the journal to the New Frontiersman he notes that the police had seized an early draft of it.

This makes me realize that I need to get another copy of this.

Just because people could literally translate and understand it does not mean they would take it seriously, especially not when its primary form of release is the New Frontiersman. Why doesn't anybody who's read this book know anything about conspiracy theorists and how they're generally treated by the public no matter how much evidence they may have? Rorschach's journal would be dismissed in a second.

I always thought the gibberish was just Rorshach writing in short hand, so no one else could read his working notes. For example, if he gets captured, he might not want whoever captured him to read about his investigation...

Not necessarily. It could take just one respectable person who might have the gumption to do their own investigation to undo everything Veidt accomplished. Just the fact that Rorscahch's journal would be authenticated and published would bring media interest (remember the Hitler diaries?) and a strong possibility of investigating Veidt.

End up? Nothing ends, Domingo. Nothing ever ends.
And what it's saying is not that we all decide the fate of the world. It's saying the fate of the world could be decided by a genius or a dullard.

It's uncertain at best. I'm personally just irked at how the release of Rorschach's ravings tends to get treated as conclusive that the world will know the truth, and that Rorschach somehow wins in the end. I see it come up almost every time people discuss Watchmen.

I took it partly as a comment that even the conspiracy theorists might have a nugget of truth sometimes.

It is, but the irony is it's unlikely it'll be taken seriously. The guys publishing it are putting it in as filler, and had already put it in 'The Crank File', which is apparently for stuff THEY think is insane. Is that really the kind of movement that topples governments, let alone somebody as brilliant and calculated as Veidt? Highly unlikely.

You could make an argument it's open-ended, but the evidence points to the fact that the book wouldn't accomplish anything. Look at how the public views Rorschach, and look at how they view Veidt in the story.

If Rorschach is meant to be an examination of that kind of hard-ass vigilante character, it only makes sense for his sacrifice and his quest for the truth to mean nothing as he's taken himself so far over the edge the public can't trust him even when he's telling the truth. Veidt's already defeated by the fact that he'll probably never know if he truly did the right thing or not, and may eventually confess or completely despair, so the journal doesn't matter anyway.

EDIT: Just remembered that the story begins with Rorschach, doesn't it? It only makes sense it ends 'with him' as well.

What? Bob, what do you mea...

Exactly. It was in the crank file because it looked like crank file material. It was not even really read, at least up to that point. When they actually read it, they are likely to make a big issue of it (it would fit their ideals so much). Even in a publication like theirs, it will receive notice. The point being that even a 'final strike' like that can possibly undue Veidt's master plan. That even the world's smartest man can be undone. Arguing over would it be successful or not misses the point of the ending.

Because it leaves open the possibility. It doesn't say Veidt's plans will be undone. It doesn't say the journal will be dismissed as bullshit. In short, it doesn't provide a concrete ending. Because, again, as the Doc said- "Nothing ever ends."

I have no qualms with any of that. As I said it mostly just irks me when people* who clearly misunderstand the book in several other ways tout Rorschach as completely victorious in the end, when it's tenuous to say that the truth will get out from that.

*Not necessarily anybody here. I'm referring to people I've seen who idiotically hero-worship Rorschach and miss those minor details, like the fact he's fucking insane.

The fact that every 'super hero' in Watchmen is insane or at least has some big issues is what makes it a great read (and showcasing what a real 'hero' would probably be). If people miss that, then they missed so much. Rorschach's insanity is one of the best parts of the story.

Well, it's a sliding scale. Rorschach clearly has more issues than, say, the original Nite Owl. People tend to be drawn to Rorschach because he's 'cool', but the whole point is characters like him wouldn't even be close to cool. They'd be shifty, sociopathic killers far removed from the rest of humanity.

His "fans" usually are connecting to his black and white, Ditko-spoofing Objectivism. They're usually the guys who're lobbying for Batman to finally kill the Joker.

Exactly. People who think uncompromising black and white morality is what the world needs. I won't deny that on a visceral level there is an appeal to the brand of justice a character like Rorschach brings to some of the scumbags he faces, it's just (as the book takes great pains to prove unequivocally) such a thing is a dreadfully slippery slope to tread.

It also shows that someone with that mindset would live a pretty horrible life. That person would not be cool, but actually pathetic. Reading Watchmen really shined a light on what the 'normal' super heroes would be like. All the dark, cool characters would actually be far from it (well the cool part anyways). It really is sad that this helped launch the dark and gritty era in comics.

But surely the people who hero-worship Rorschach are never going to appreciate the nuance, post-modern deconstruction, meta-fictive referencing or general broader messages Moore's trying to convey in Watchmen in the first place anyway.

So really, who gives a fuck what they think? They're retards.

His awkwardness with Night Owl after the prison escape is a good example of this.

It's like a dog, really.

It is worse than a dog. A dog can show affection (and most of them do it all the time) with great ease. He has affection for Nite Owl, but has no clue how to connect to a real person. He has no sense of how a 'normal' person acts.

That little scene (where Rorschach admits that he is a hard friend to have) is such an oddly poignant moment, it damn well better find its way into the movie. Cut the giant blue guy wading through Nam if you must, but leave this one alone.

Good point. Well said.

Hopefully, but I'm not optimistic about Zack Snyder capturing emotional beats like this. He still hasn't proven he can tackle material of any real weight, let alone something as dense as Watchmen.

Man, I love that scene. What sells it is that awkward "Okay Rorschach, let go of my hand now" moment.