I have this friend...

What if it's true though?

I have no close friends like that except for one of my friends that has a horrid DVD collection. However, I do work with some of the smartest people I've ever known and one guy at work believes in some very very nutty conspiracy theory stuff.

But, witches? I'm not sure how to go about that...

If it's not interfering with what you do with the guy and he's not trying to shove his beliefs down your throat and friends around you then how is it a problem?

Deprogramming is a bitch.

I've got a friend who LOVES Star Trek like nobody's business... yet he believes in a young Earth.

Huh?

Now... someone who eats up Star Trek with all it's science and such should probably be on the side of scientific fact/theory, right?

I know others that aren't "religious" but they won't do certain things or say certain things out of guilt to said religion.

Deprogramming is a bitch.

Go to work tomorrow dressed as a witch. That will get the point across.

It's true if they are as hot as the three sisters in Charmed. Unless it's the one that had the baby, then maybe after 3 beers.

Wait... Star Trek is full of science?

Christ you mean the shit from this is true?



Aw hell, we're boned!

Anybody got a large medieval scale and a duck?

Magic tend to work when your concept of "spell" happens to include putting poisonous shit in dad's beer and re-filling mom's shampoo bottle with Nair.

I'm of the opinion that all non-atheists think all us atheists are assholes with Dawkins as our leading asshole.

That won't work because I'm sure he's referring to "witches", he's referring to the devil's work. I'd liken it to demon possession.

Well, if he believes that witches have the ability to control what happens to him, perhaps you should suggest that he contact his local coven/solitary practitioner and ask for either a protection spell or a binding. If this plan doesn't jive with his beliefs, perhaps his church would help him and conduct an exorcism.

Both of these plans of action would, of course, require him to man up and take responsibility for his own life. Doesn't sound like he really wants to do that. Easier to blame a Wiccan, I suppose.

"I blame the witches."

That's my new excuse for when things don't go my way.

It's been my experience that every story that starts with "I have this friend.." is actually the story of the speaker.

So you believe in witches, huh Jacob?

Double double, toil and trouble.. Fire burn and cauldron bubble [cackle]

I blame the ghost of Ronald Reagan whenever I have to change a headlight.

What kind of church does this guy go to, Jacob?

Does he believe in warlocks? Because if he doesn't, your friend is not only batshit insane, but also a sexist.

Cockblockers are witches? Then I believe in them too.

You enjoy his company and have great conversations. He's not trying to enlist you in a war against witches (wow, it's hard to type that when you're trying to be somewhat serious). So, I don't think it should affect your friendship for him, or even your feelings for him as a friend. I have a friend who I really enjoy being with who can't go more than a couple of months without bringing up the Bildebergs and mind control of populations. It's annoying sometimes, sometimes amusing. But nothing I'm going to scarifice the rest of our friendship over.

But if he's so fervently religious, you can debate him on the basis of his beliefs- namely that his doctrine teaches that no power is more powerful than the one he worships and his guide book is filled with stories of people beating down the devil. (Based on the Bible, even demon possession isn't the hardest nut to crack.) Or bring up some of the other points people have brought up. Go at it honestly and thoughtfully and your friendship should keep it from dissolving into barbs.

Or you can just let him go his way and inwardly roll your eyes whenever the W-word comes up. That's if you think you can't get him to actually approach the subject evenly with you. Hang onto a friendship you clearly value and hope he comes to his senses some day.

By no means show up at lunch telling him you just saw an old guy with an earring and six fingers leaving the restaurant with one of your friend's gloves.

Though that would be oddly hilarious.

See? That stuff's great. And you said the cock-blocking story was hilarious.

My French III teacher in high school was a self-proclaimed witch. (I'm not from bumpkinville either, the school's in the D.C. 'burbs; she commuted in from an hour and a half into the countryside, though.) Wasn't any sort of secret, at least with her students. She was a bit of a loon to talk with anyway (on any subject), and wasn't much of a teacher at all -- we knew we could burn up a whole class by getting her started on her tales of the supernatural (or her student trips to Russia, but that's another story). From cold spots in haunted houses to her coven's run-ins with the nearby black coven -- they de-cursed a cow, and it started to give milk again! The very next day.

We could get weeks behind in the lesson plan, getting her to burn time with that stuff. So much irresponsible fun. (And my worst grades in 24 years of education.)

She kept her job somehow, at least the 4 years I went there and a couple after until all my friends graduated. Don't know how long she stayed, or if she ever had professional trouble arise from her witchiness.

Anyway, my point is, try not to slap him when he brings this stuff up, or laugh in his face. You'll never "fix" him of this stuff, and you say you like his company otherwise, right? So you egg him on, and keep picking up the great stories.

ETA: Or, you know, what Phil! said so succinctly.

Finally, I can blame that dry spell at university on something besides being a drunken ass.

Has he seen Top Gun?

How much weight has he lost?

He's been thinnered.

I'm pretty sure if Jacob showed him the film, the guy would have a meltdown.

Believes in witches? I wish! My older brother, a fairly intelligent guy that also happens to be a fan of "Star Trek", watched a special on FOX (!) a few years back and is now certain we never landed on the moon... he also claims that in a few years we'll come in direct contact with a hidden planet and be destroyed... he also owns "Battlefield Earth" on DVD.

Yeah, I can understand that. Any time you find yourself having to convince someone of the value of rational thought it makes your brain want to explode. Come to think of it, maybe that's what the other side wants. Our brains explode and then we're all equal. This could be a conspiracy.

But if you enjoy the debates and he'll actively debate with you and you can maintain a friendship, that's pretty great. Like others pointed out, friends like that add a charge to your life. At least until it becomes maddening.

I always flatter my crazy friends to an annoying (for me) degree. "Why?" you might ask. The parties, my friends, think of the parties. Every time I have a party I go through my crazy rolodex and invite two or three complete whackos. Hilarity ensues. My ace-in-the-hole is an old co-worker who is deeply in the closet, an alcoholic and completely unhinged when it comes to spiritual matters (he won't watch Chris Angel's show because he is afraid he might become possessed through the tv). Serve that fucker up a couple of stiff drinks and point him in the direction of some unsuspecting party-goer and you've got yourself instant entertainment.

Maybe he's just a misogynist. He get blue-balled by a "witch" or two in high school?

This is completely off-topic, but it totally reminds me of my high school history teacher who told us all about his days in Interpol, complete with graphic stories of he and his associates getting into these wild fights, typically in the Middle East (he was an expert on the subject), but sometimes involving American mafia guys, etc. I honestly have no idea where fact ended and fiction began with him, but I hear he got in a little trouble after I graduated for mock-threateningly telling a class that it had been "a long time since I last killed a man." Needless to say, he taught a pretty interesting class that got more and more interesting the further he strayed from the subject at hand.

So, this is a happening with a "friend"? Well, just take the view with him that science hasn't, and probably ever won't, explain everything so there's just somethings that people will believe to fill in the gaps.

Well, Jacob, I guess it depends on how close your friendship is. The problem here is the increasing likelihood over time that these wacky quirks blossom into Full-Out Crazy.

Did you say whether or not he has kids? That could play a big factor in getting him to change his mind.

He said suppress, Travis.

Not to derail the thread but the wife and I were in the Target one day when a middle-age woman collapsed. We rushed over to help, my wife called 911, and another bystander began cpr. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed a guy sitting nearby with his eyes closed, his hand out, and silently mouthing something. After the paramedics came and took the lady to the hospital, and all was said and done, my wife asked me, "Did you see that guy over there praying?" to which I replied "Funny, my first reaction was that he had cast a spell on her."

Tell your buddy that it's all about perception. And if he gets angry with you about your reaction tell him that it was actually your +2 Shotglass of Cockblocking that drove that chick away. Either that or he's a douche bag.

There's your problem. You're expecting someone who has thrown logic out the window to be logical. He's not. When it comes to belief, he's decided to believe, and you can't change people's beliefs. You can try to work within them (as in getting a witch or voodoo person to cast a counter spell, or get someone in his church to use God to cast out the spell) but you can't get him to change.

Also, if he suggests that he's single because he's been cursed, try suggesting that the real reason he is single is because of whatever is keeping him single - perhaps mentioning the witch thing to women he's dating. Or his whack-o religious beliefs, or whatever else you know about him that would make him less than the ideal catch (e.g. that he's a geeky Trekkie who gets too nervous to relate to women well).

As I have taken it upon myself to be the 'Person Who Quotes Bill Hicks at the Slightest Provocation' (PWQBHSP) here's another one for ya:

"Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, 'Show me.'"


I've been dealing with this attitude my whole life (raised by Catholics, decided I was an atheist at 6 or 7) and pretty much nothing pisses me off more. It's like logic and rational thinking don't even need to factor into the equation as long as whatever stupid shit you believe is part of your religion. It's all about FAITH and how dare anyone try to reason with FAITH!

Okay, so you believe a rainbow unicorn farted out the universe, why?

'It's what they taught me in church'

Do you have any evidence to support this?

'Our great prophet Mr. Blah Blah Blah told us this 5,000 years ago. All the people who have been believing in the Gassy Rainbow Unicorn for that long can't be wrong! Besides, you can't question me or ask me to bring reason into this, it's a matter of FAITH! If you like science so much why don't you go out and find some evidence proving it doesn't exist?'

That's it, I'm not going to be part of a community that belittles my belief in the Gaseous Unicorn Faith Church of Latter Day Ponies.

Well, if this guy knows you're an athiest, you're half-way to solving your problem. Make sure that he understands that every time he brings this stuff up, you will not accept that it is true, and that you believe he is deluding himself about it. Be honest and direct about that, and tell him that if he insists on continuing to talk about it, that it is talk falling on deaf ears, and that you won't even bother debating him about it anymore.

He may be getting off on your resistance to his beliefs, and he might be egging you on, maybe even subconsciously. If he knows you're not even going to bother arguing about it anymore, he may reconsider bringing it up so often.

The other half of the solution would be for you to accept that you probably can't alter his beliefs at this point in his life, and to ignore it. Don't let it bug you.

Most people believe in something that's not true (as in, most religions), but often they also compartmentalize it from their rational side. That is, they know their religion is a matter of faith and choose to believe it, while also knowing it's irrational.

Keep in mind that outside religion many people believe in many, many things for which the scientific support is tenuous at best (see: all non-evidence-based medicine, for example). Trust me, no matter what it is in which people choose to believe, facts rarely, if ever, sway them.

Roll Credits.




No one's going to make a more interesting post tonight.
Glad to hear you're doing much better now, Cthulhu.