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2008 Presidential Election - Page 2

post #51 of 20015
Pretty good op Ed piece in today's LA Times regarding Hillary and Bill:

Quote:

A Clinton twofer's high price- Rosa Brooks

Whether you loved them or hated them, Bill and Hillary Clinton were always a twofer. On the campaign trail in 1992, Bill used to joke about it. Vote for me and get "two for the price of one," he chuckled. Plenty of Americans thought this wasn't such a bad idea. A bumper sticker popular at the time proclaimed: "I'm voting for Hillary's husband."

The Clintons seem to want that bumper sticker resuscitated. Bill's back on the campaign trail, waxing eloquent about his White House days, pummeling Hillary's rivals and promising more good times if Hillary becomes the Democratic nominee: You liked Clinton I? You're gonna love Clinton II!

In contrast to 1992, though, the Clintons now officially pretend that they're not a twofer. When critics -- Barack Obama among them -- complain that it's hard to figure out which Clinton is actually running for president this year, Hillary responds with wide-eyed incomprehension: Goodness, what's this fuss about Bill? "This campaign is not about our spouses, it's about us," she explained demurely to a South Carolina debate audience. "Michelle [Obama] and Elizabeth [Edwards] are strong and staunch advocates for their husbands, and I respect that." Isn't Hillary allowed to have a supportive spouse too?

Butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

The problem for Hillary Clinton is that, as usual, she wants it both ways. She wants to be judged on her own merits and not be treated as Bill's Mini-Me. But she also wants to reap the benefits of Bill's popularity, and offers voters the reassuring suggestion that if there's a crisis while she's in the White House, there will be someone around who really does have executive branch experience -- namely, Bill -- to lend a hand.

But the Clintons are playing a dangerous game. The more they remind us of what we liked about Act I of the Bill and Hillary Show, the more they also remind us of what we hated.

It's true that the Bush administration is enough to make anyone nostalgic for the Clinton era. Compared with the catastrophes that President Bush unleashed, Bill Clinton's misdeeds seem like minor peccadilloes. Under Clinton, the United States didn't fall into a potentially devastating economic crisis, didn't rack up record-breaking debts and budget deficits, didn't adopt a policy of torturing people, didn't seek to gut international human rights standards, didn't get bogged down in any major, pointless and unwinnable wars and didn't actively alienate huge swathes of the global population.

On the other hand -- and where the Clintons are concerned, it's always wise to wonder what the hand you can't see is up to -- once you stop comparing the Clinton presidency with the Bush presidency, it no longer looks so great. On the whole, the Clinton era was a time of culture war and scandal, "triangulation" and botched reforms (healthcare anyone?), vacillation and paralysis.

On foreign policy in particular, Clinton's presidency was an era of missed opportunities. In Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Rwanda and Kosovo, U.S. policy was marred by hesitation and lack of commitment. Despite impressive rhetoric on the emerging challenges posed by globalization, nuclear proliferation, WMD and the rise of transnational terrorism and nonstate actors, Clinton developed few innovative ways to address these challenges; his approach to conflict and crisis was piecemeal. His early defeat on gays in the military left him so scarred that he steered clear of the military for most of his presidency, passively letting uniformed personnel dictate the terms of too many foreign policy decisions and ignoring hard questions about how to reshape the military to face post-Cold War threats.

Today, if Obama's mere existence at times seems to make Bill Clinton apoplectic, it's not just because Obama (whose foreign policy judgment has so far been significantly better than Hillary's on Iraq, Iran and Pakistan) is the main Democratic barrier to a third Clinton term. It's also that Obama's promise of a politics that's not just bipartisan but beyond partisan is an implicit rejection of the Clintons' all-politics-all-the-time ethos, of their willingness to let crucial national decisions be driven by petty political considerations, of their lack of interest in dealing with big questions when they could coast along with a compromise here, a favor there and some tinkering over here.

Before 9/11, tinkering kept us afloat. But it's no longer enough.

Obama offers something transformative and new, and this frightens some voters, who wonder if he can live up to his undeniable potential. The Clintons, meanwhile, offer something old and familiar. But will a trip down memory lane with Billary reassure voters or end up frightening them even more?
post #52 of 20015
Transformative is wishful thinking, I think. He'd certainly be new, though. And how can any "good op Ed" piece contain the term "Billary"?
post #53 of 20015
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Pretty good op Ed piece in today's LA Times regarding Hillary and Bill:
Really good read. Thanks for posting it.
post #54 of 20015
One of the best pieces I've read on Hillary's campaign and who she is as a person, is George Packer's recent article in The New Yorker:

The Choice
post #55 of 20015
She's mauling Obama in the polls here in Florida.
post #56 of 20015
Not to continue cutting and pasting but now there's speculation that Super-Tuesday will not create a nominee

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080124/D8UC7RDO0.html
post #57 of 20015
Thanks for the link, Goldberg. Enjoyed reading that.
post #58 of 20015
Totally off the subject, but that cartoon in the New Yorker link is goddamned hilarious.
post #59 of 20015
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Totally off the subject, but that cartoon in the New Yorker link is goddamned hilarious.
Which one was it? It changes every time you refresh.
post #60 of 20015
Thread Starter 
Kucinich is out.

Quote:
Democrat Dennis Kucinich is abandoning his second, long-shot bid for the White House as he faces a tough fight to hold onto his other job—U.S. congressman.

In an interview with Cleveland's Plain Dealer, the six-term House member said he was quitting the race and would make a formal announcement on Friday.

"I will be announcing that I'm transiting out of the presidential campaign," Kucinich said. "I'm making that announcement tomorrow about a new direction."

Kucinich has received little support in his presidential bid; he got 1 percent of the vote in the New Hampshire primary and was shut out in the Iowa caucuses although he has a devoted following.

...

Kucinich said he will not endorse another Democrat in the primary.
post #61 of 20015
Kucinich couldn't lose because at the end of the day, he gets to go home to his ridiculously hot wife.
post #62 of 20015
Show of hands: Who planned on voting for Kucinich just to hear about the possible tawdry antics of the First Hotwife?
post #63 of 20015
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24635

Ann Coulter's attack on John McCain, which basically comes down to "he's too sane."
post #64 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man View Post
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24635

Ann Coulter's attack on John McCain, which basically comes down to "he's too sane."
Yeah, you've got to love how she breathlessly extolls the virtues of the Swift Boat Veterans.

Keep on chuggin' that Kool-Aid, Annie. Maybe you'll find some of that Jones-flavored stuff buried under Christopher Hitchens' mountain of empty scotch bottles.
post #65 of 20015
That list of allegations against him is hysterical.
post #66 of 20015
How can you take the guy seriously when he was opposed to making huge tax cuts in the middle of a war?
post #67 of 20015
Also, I don't know if anyone saw this, but last week Michelle Malkin was utterly exasperated because there was not one candidate who had the guts to say that the government should not do anything about the subprime mortgage crisis. Who will stand for hating the poor?
post #68 of 20015
Ugh, I hate Mitt Romney with the heat of a nova. I'd love to ask him why his state has more homeless now than at any point since 1983. He disgusts me.

Haley Barbour as a potential running mate? This is news to me. I can't quite figure him out - he's got the most God-awful accent in the South (and I say this as a native Southerner) and he fits the image of a good ol' boy political fat cat more than anyone in years. ....However, I saw him address a crowd of reporters and policy makers on Mississippi's plans and finances post-Katrina, and DAMN that man was overflowing with knowledge. He never referenced any notes and yet he had a Bartlet-level understanding of the ins and outs of Katrina's cost and impact. I hate to say it, but I was impressed.
post #69 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car View Post
Kucinich is out.

Quote:
Democrat Dennis Kucinich's hot wife is abandoning her first, long-shot bid for the Office of First Lady as she faces a tough fight to hold onto her other job—U.S. congressman's sexy wife.

In an interview with Cleveland's Plain Dealer, the six-term House husband of the ravishing Elizabeth Kucinich said he was quitting the race and would make a formal announcement on Friday.

"I will be announcing that I'm transiting out of the presidential campaign," Elizabeth Kucinich's spouse said. "I'm making that announcement tomorrow about a new direction."

Kucinich has received a lot of support in her bid as First Lady despite little support for her husband's Presidential bid; he got 1 percent of the vote in the New Hampshire primary and was shut out in the Iowa caucuses although she has a devoted following.

...

Kucinich said she will not endorse another Democrat in the primary. "Dennis will always be the only President I'll ever need." she said at a press release today.
I want to make a funny.
post #70 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDI F. Kelly View Post
Haley Barbour as a potential running mate? This is news to me. I can't quite figure him out - he's got the most God-awful accent in the South (and I say this as a native Southerner) and he fits the image of a good ol' boy political fat cat more than anyone in years. ....However, I saw him address a crowd of reporters and policy makers on Mississippi's plans and finances post-Katrina, and DAMN that man was overflowing with knowledge. He never referenced any notes and yet he had a Bartlet-level understanding of the ins and outs of Katrina's cost and impact. I hate to say it, but I was impressed.
Under Barbour, Mississippi enacted some of the most stringent, medieval abortion laws of any state in the nation. No way.
post #71 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
That list of allegations against him is hysterical.
She's a troll. One of these days, she'll pull of her mask and shout, "Ah-HA! It is I, John Shade!"
post #72 of 20015
I just love how Limbaugh and Coulter are now backing Romney, a true example of flip flopping. Makes me want to vote for McCain even more.
post #73 of 20015
Oh, I know. Romney IS John Kerry! Looks like a stuffed suit, comes from Taxacheusettes, is a flip-flopper...except that Kerry got the flip-flopper label because he voted differently on a couple bills when the circumstances changed (which is something you could say about ANYONE who's been in the senate for more than a couple years), whereas Romney has actually reversed his entire position on major issues from where he was as governor. He's now a newly-minted religious nut who thinks the kind of universal healthcare mandates he passed in his own state are going to destroy the fabric of democracy. If he gets the nomination, it proves that the GOP is a bastion of hypocricy.
post #74 of 20015
Coulter says she's proud "Mitt Romney" fooled all the liberals in Mass. She actually praises him lying and deceiving the voters. Coluter has no shame at all.
post #75 of 20015
Well... According to the latest Smart Selector, Romney's my guy. I actually have no problem with vice-presidential candidates views on Abortion, as it would require succession AND Supreme Court justices retiring for that to matter.

Tom Tancredo (withdrawn, endorsed Romney) (63%)
3. Duncan Hunter (withdrawn) (61%)
4. Alan Keyes (60%)
5. Stephen Colbert (campaign halted) (54%)
6. Mitt Romney (51%)
7. Rudolph Giuliani (51%)
8. Hillary Clinton (49%)
9. John McCain (49%)
10. Mike Huckabee (47%)
11. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (47%)
post #76 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post

4. Alan Keyes (60%)
Very scary that you are so close to this nutjob.
post #77 of 20015
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Barack Obama (88%)
3. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (88%)
4. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (83%)
5. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (83%)
6. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (81%)
7. Hillary Clinton (80%)
8. John Edwards (78%)

That looks about right.
post #78 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Very scary that you are so close to this nutjob.
Nah, Ron Paul was almost near the bottom.
Heee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Seriously, I looked up Alan Keyes (as I know almost nothing about his stand on the issues) and I actually can see why he scored so high...

Illegal Immigration, fair trade (not free trade) I marked as 'high' issues ... the rest of him appears to be not aligned with me however... so... let me try and retake the test.

edited ---

OK, so I retook the test and then did a 'compare' and I think it's a balace problem. They don't allow you to weight certain issues higher than others they just have 'lower' or 'higher'. There should be a 5 point weight system, so you can mark something at a 1 (for lowest) and 5 (for highest) gives room for 4's and 2's.
post #79 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Very scary that you are so close to this nutjob.
Hey, his number one thinks that nuking Mecca is a reasonable response to future terrorist attacks. Tancredo and Keyes could probably have a crazy-off.
post #80 of 20015
This is amazing, Hillary is truly desperate to win this thing at all costs;

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...25/1004/NEWS02

" Clinton pledges to seat Mich. delegates despite primary flap

She also hopes Fla. representatives will be welcomed at convention"
post #81 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Hey, his number one thinks that nuking Mecca is a reasonable response to future terrorist attacks. Tancredo and Keyes could probably have a crazy-off.
Dave beat me to the punch on that one. A friend of mine is politically involved in Colorado, and ended up going to Tancredo's office to discuss state-level healthcare initiatives with a staffer. The guy just spouted talking points the entire time and got visibly hacked off when he mentioned the concept of universal healthcare.

Not only is Tancredo a basket case, but his staffers are chips off the ol' angry white block.
post #82 of 20015
That SelectSmart thing worked out pretty differently for me than the similar test at glassbooth.org.

SelectSmart:
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (92%)
3. Barack Obama (84%)
4. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (84%)
5. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (78%)
6. Hillary Clinton (76%)
7. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (76%)
8. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (73%)
9. John Edwards (72%)
10. Michael Bloomberg (says he will not run) (70%)

Glassbooth's seemed somewhat more accurate in the way that the questions were phrased and in the way the numbers shook out for me (although Kucinich topped both). Edwards was higher than Obama, in fact.
post #83 of 20015
I'm pretty happy with these results from SmartStart:
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Barack Obama (71%)
3. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (70%)
4. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (70%)
5. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (63%)
6. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (62%)
7. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (61%)
8. Al Gore (not announced) (61%)
9. Hillary Clinton (60%)
10. John Edwards (58%)
post #84 of 20015
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (87%)
3. Barack Obama (84%)
4. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (80%)
5. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (75%)
6. Hillary Clinton (73%)
7. John Edwards (72%)
8. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (72%)
9. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (70%)
10. Al Gore (not announced) (65%)

I scored a lot higher with Edwards on other tests, but this one's still relatively close to the other results I've gotten in the past - at least as far as Obama's standing goes.
post #85 of 20015
Looks like Frank may have been correct on McCain's running mate.
post #86 of 20015
Figured as much, since McCain and Joementum have been pals for a while.
post #87 of 20015
It just seems weird to me that anyone's test results would put Obama (or any of the viable Democratic candidates, really) and Kucinich that close together. They disagree on a lot of substantial stuff mentioned on the quiz (gay marriage, marijuana legality, death penalty), or at least in how they'd approach the issue (withdrawal from Iraq, universal health care, civil liberties vs. homeland security).
post #88 of 20015
And Clinton superceding Edwards on mine gave me a bit of pause, especially looking at the percentage difference.
post #89 of 20015
I'm still trying to figure out how I got Obama and Clark at second and fourth respectively.
post #90 of 20015
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (71%)
3. Ron Paul (65%)
4. Barack Obama (64%)
5. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (59%)
6. John Edwards (57%)
7. John McCain (57%)
8. Alan Keyes (55%)
9. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (54%)
10. Mike Gravel (53%)
11. Kent McManigal (campaign suspended) (53%)
12. Michael Bloomberg (says he will not run) (53%)
13. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (53%)
14. Al Gore (not announced) (50%)
15. Chuck Hagel (not running) (50%)
16. Bill Richardson (withdrawn) (49%)
17. Hillary Clinton (49%)
18. Duncan Hunter (withdrawn) (48%)
19. Tom Tancredo (withdrawn, endorsed Romney)
21. Mitt Romney (44%)
24. Rudolph Giuliani (42%) Information link
25. Newt Gingrich (says he will not run) (42%)
26. Fred Thompson (withdrawn) (41%)
29. Stephen Colbert (campaign halted) (32%)
30. Mike Huckabee (31%) Information link
post #91 of 20015
My results are all over the freaking place
post #92 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
This is amazing, Hillary is truly desperate to win this thing at all costs;

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...25/1004/NEWS02

" Clinton pledges to seat Mich. delegates despite primary flap

She also hopes Fla. representatives will be welcomed at convention"
That's some dirty pool.
post #93 of 20015
Yeah, I was wondering how Gore, Clinton, & Edwards were all bunched together and 10% off from Kucinich and Obama.

And I didn't even recognize the Green Party candidate.
post #94 of 20015
Al Gore was right outside the top 10.

1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100 %)
2. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (90 %)
3. Barack Obama (89 %)
4. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (85 %)
5. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (83 %)
6. John Edwards (79 %)
7. Hillary Clinton (78 %)
8. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (77 %)
9. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (76 %)
10. Mike Gravel (75 %)
post #95 of 20015
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Barack Obama (83%)
3. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (81%)
4. Al Gore (not announced) (77%)
5. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (76%)
6. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (75%)
7. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (75%)
8. Hillary Clinton (74%)
9. John Edwards (72%)
10. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (66%)

Matches up with my supported candidate, so yay. Not a lot of room for nuance in those questions, though.
post #96 of 20015
OK, I'm the only one with some Republicans in my top 10, I'm feeling isolated here now ...
post #97 of 20015
Thread Starter 
On Glassbooth, I had:

Huckabee - 82%
McCain - 74%
Giuliani - 73%
Romney - 71%

This was mainly based off of my belief in human contribution to global warming, my strong desire to invest heavily in alternative energy, and my resistance to the US entering international treaties that don't include developing nations like China and India. And the fact that I don't really think illegal immigration is our most pressing problem. Weird. Huckabee is the one Republican left who I would not vote for.
post #98 of 20015
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
OK, I'm the only one with some Republicans in my top 10, I'm feeling isolated here now ...
"One of us!"
post #99 of 20015
Thread Starter 
And SelectSmart:

1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Alan Keyes (70%) Information link
3. Mike Huckabee (63%) Information link
4. Mitt Romney (63%) Information link
5. Jim Gilmore (withdrawn) (62%) Information link
6. John McCain (60%) Information link
7. Chuck Hagel (not running) (60%) Information link
8. Sam Brownback (withdrawn, endorsed McCain) (59%) Information link
9. Rudolph Giuliani (58%) Information link
10. Duncan Hunter (withdrawn) (58%) Information link
11. Stephen Colbert (campaign halted) (54%)

Alan Keyes? Huckabee? Seriously? I don't like this test.
post #100 of 20015
1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Dennis Kucinich (withdrawn) (82%) Information link
3. Barack Obama (82%) Information link
4. Joseph Biden (withdrawn) (81%) Information link
5. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (80%) Information link
6. Hillary Clinton (79%) Information link
7. Christopher Dodd (withdrawn) (78%) Information link
8. John Edwards (77%) Information link
9. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (75%) Information link
10. Al Gore (not announced) (73%) Information link

This sounds about right, although I expected Edwards to be higher.
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