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Ways To Know A Band Sucks - Page 2

post #51 of 251
2/10/08 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
Sure, you have a point with Elvis Costello. But remember, their image was not the dominant theme in rock music. It seems to me that dominant image being pushed by rock bands is an emasculated clone of Rivers Cuomo. Not all of these kids are emulating Buddy Holly or Elvis Costello. The skinny nerd thing is all the rage, it seems.
"Dominant image" is exaggerating to a spectacular degree. How many bands can you name that are cashing in on this "dominant image"? Historically, besides Holly and Costello, there's also been Devo, David Byrne, and They Might Be Giants. There has always been a place for the nerd in rock and roll. But if you're seeing some kind of dominance in the style, you're looking in places the rest of us aren't seeing.
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post #52 of 251
2/10/08 at 5:28pm
I've been watching a lot of MTV lately, and I've been reading a lot of Spin/Rolling Stone. That's where I've gotten my observations. They're just doesn't seem to be a lot of sex appeal in rock of late.
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post #53 of 251
2/10/08 at 5:31pm
Frankly, rock could do with less focus on sex appeal, and more on music. Scott Stapp oiling up his torso and performing with his shirt open didn't exactly do rock any favors.

Plus, I find it really odd that somebody who's complaining about a recent lack of sex appeal in rock is saying that he doesn't care for the legacies of Aerosmith or Led Zeppelin.
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post #54 of 251
2/10/08 at 5:39pm
There's a difference. I don't care for their music, but I can see why (in the case of Zeppelin) people found their music sexy.

Consider Greg Dulli. This guy was a sex symbol in the alt-rock scene of the early 90s. Good looking, wrote powerful tunes, and there was a masculinity there that's appealing. I don't get any of that from modern music. Rock is not supposed to be thinking-man's music. It's supposed to be about sex. There's not a whole lot of sex left in rock these days and that's a shame.

That being said, do I think that all bands should run around bearing their chest and singing like sex-crazed weasels? Not at all. But there should be a certain amount of sex appeal in rock and I don't see it today. The pendulum is swinging the other way and I'm being a cranky old man and bitching about it.

(edit)
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post #55 of 251
2/10/08 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
Consider Greg Dulli. This guy was a sex symbol in the alt-rock scene of the early 90s. Good looking, wrote powerful tunes, and there was a masculinity there that's appealing. I don't get any of that from modern music. Rock is not supposed to be thinking-man's music. It's supposed to be about sex. There's not a whole lot of sex left in rock these days and that's a shame.
The sex symbol thing is kind of an odd thing for a bunch of straight guys to be fighting over. Considering the respective female followings for more cerebral, nerdier bands like the Decemberists and masculine, tough-guy bands like Drive-By Truckers (I'm using two bands I love here, by the way, and both are bands I've seen multiple times), I'm thinking the geeks have the sex appeal.

Dulli's sex symbol status even in the early 90s is something of a self-perpetuated myth, I think. All of the big Dulli fans I know now and knew then are guys.
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post #56 of 251
2/10/08 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
I could solidify by saying "they are best known for an ironic cover" but it's not a blanket dismissal, just a way to know.
I'll buy that.
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post #57 of 251
2/10/08 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
There goes DaveB, the man who sucked the fun out of this thread.
Their name sounds like "Moron Five." Huh-huh-huh-huh.

Better?
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post #58 of 251
2/10/08 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
At the risk of missing sarcasm here, aren't you the guy who said he was friends with Bob Mould in that other thread?
Yeah, you missed the sarcasm big-time douchebag...the "conceited punk bastards" part was the big hint to the sarcasm in my statement. Try to pay attention next time instead of trying to show off how smart you are.
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post #59 of 251
2/10/08 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
The sex symbol thing is kind of an odd thing for a bunch of straight guys to be fighting over.
What, straight men can't appreciate another man's good looks? Shit, I'm straight, but I can honestly say Chili Peppers era Dave Navarro was one hot man.
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post #60 of 251
2/10/08 at 6:24pm
But why does that matter? Avril Lavigne is hot, too. That doesn't make her music any better. I like the Chili Peppers because of what they do.
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post #61 of 251
2/10/08 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsycheOut00 View Post
Fuck, who am I kidding? Def Leppard is the best band ever... uh, was... uh, Vivian Campbell fans, anyone to lend a hand here?
You called? While I loved Steve Clark and still often think of Def Lep in terms of that original line up, they couldn't have done any better than Viv Campbell. He's a great compliment to their music, and he and Phil Collen together are just as great of a pair as Phil and Steve were.

(And by the way - Def Lppard "is", not "was". Bite your tongue.)
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post #62 of 251
2/10/08 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeVSbenway View Post
Yeah, you missed the sarcasm big-time douchebag...the "conceited punk bastards" part was the big hint to the sarcasm in my statement. Try to pay attention next time instead of trying to show off how smart you are.
Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with your posting history, and you're contributing in a thread in which people are, in some seriousness, putting forth extra guitar players and perceived femininity as reasons why bands suck. Apologies for missing your subtle cue, but no need to get salty.
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post #63 of 251
2/10/08 at 8:13pm
If the band is posed on their album cover in a way that is not all all artistic, trying really hard to look cool, particularly if shot to accentuate their looks:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...3L._AA240_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...BL._AA240_.jpg
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post #64 of 251
2/10/08 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
That doesn't even mean anything.
Oh, it does. It means they scew too far into being derivative. Having no real voice of their own. Generic.

Clearly I intended to call Fugazi out on their shit. I'm quite glad you were able to percieve that, then say it plainly for all those who were not able pick up on my subtle scathing criticism of a band that has gone on for far too long without anyone calling them out.

Anyway I thought we were adding to a bullshit opinion thread, but apparently you felt we are constructing here some sort of indisputable criteria at which we will soon be able to scientifically claim a band sucks.

Keep up the scrutiny Dave, we'll get there.
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post #65 of 251
2/10/08 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
This is just a reaction to Vampire Weekend. God, they're fucking awful.
Your post is made of 100% F.A.I.L.

Go play with your gong!
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post #66 of 251
2/10/08 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack "Sue" Dnim View Post
Oh, it does. It means they scew too far into being derivative. Having no real voice of their own. Generic.

Clearly I intended to call Fugazi out on their shit. I'm quite glad you were able to percieve that, then say it plainly for all those who were not able pick up on my subtle scathing criticism of a band that has gone on for far too long without anyone calling them out.

Anyway I thought we were adding to a bullshit opinion thread, but apparently you felt we are constructing here some sort of indisputable criteria at which we will soon be able to scientifically claim a band sucks.

Keep up the scrutiny Dave, we'll get there.
Might I suggest "They're called Seether" or "They're called Creed" for your next criterion?
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post #67 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:24pm
When the artist is brooding with bare feet on the cover:



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post #68 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:24pm
That's awesome Dave. Thanks, because I'm the no fun douchebag here.

I appreciate that you're into music. You're a drummer, right? I appreciate that you take music serious. However, this is an opinion based thread. Is Fallout Boy truly an objectively shit band, or is it simply no one on CHUD likes them enough to defend them? Same thing for the bands I listed. I'm not terribly fond of them, but do you think I really believe that they are indisputably bands that suck? They are just bands I don't like. Or that any of the criteria in this thread can be universally applied? It can't. Do you think it can? So, if you want to shit on the contributions to this thread maybe you should be calling for the deletion of the entire thread, and not bothering to bring up exceptions.

No shit there are exceptions. Thanks Dave.

edit: I couldn't remember Seether's name. If I had I would have included them. I wouldn't have bothered to list Creed though.
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post #69 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:31pm
I'm loving DaveB in this thread (not that I don't dig his posts already) because everyone's throwing out these rules and like a wise judge, he's either upholding them or smacking them down.

Here's a couple I'll try out:

-Whiny voices that are also constipated. We get it, your angsty. You know how we know? Because you wrote it in your lyrics. Which leads me to my next point...
- To paraphrase David Cross, words that would be in the diary of a 15-year-old girl should not be coming out of a grown man.
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post #70 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:43pm
Two words: Christian. Metal.
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post #71 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:49pm
When they start wearing inappropriate Matrix-style gear in concert in order to appear younger:



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post #72 of 251
2/10/08 at 9:58pm
Any band or artist that uses their name in the lyrics of a song. Pink Floyd’s “Have a Cigar” is exempted due to context.
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post #73 of 251
2/10/08 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Two words: Christian. Metal.
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post #74 of 251
2/10/08 at 10:12pm
"The body of Christ, all muscled up and toned."
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post #75 of 251
2/10/08 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
...no need to get salty.
Oh, there's always room for more salt haha. Since the magical green boxes have vanished I feel much more free to be the asshole I am...no offense.
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post #76 of 251
2/10/08 at 10:54pm
To the "Ironic 80s cover" rule, it should go without saying that if your first single (and only hit) is an ironic 80s cover, you should not only retire from music, but sell your instruments and cut off your own fingers.

And although there are plenty of exceptions to this, don't pad your album with covers. Learn to write enough songs to fill up an hour, or don't play with the grownups. Covers are for B-sides and soundtracks.
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post #77 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Two words: Christian. Metal.
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1703504
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post #78 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaNY View Post
Hey!

(*Slaps Brian with glove across face*)

Pistols at dawn, sir!
Are defending post-Steve Clark Def Leppard or post-John Sykes Whitesnake here? Ronnie James Dio? Whatever the case, I respect your commitment and will feel some remorse but no hesitation when we finally face off. "I demand satisfaction!"

P.S. If you can't understand the appeal of '70s Aerosmith you are beyond help.
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post #79 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Brock View Post
Why is it that when someone speaks to God, they have to rock back and forth like a retard?
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post #80 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Why is it that when someone speaks to God, they have to rock back and forth like a retard?
Showmanship.
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post #81 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Two words: Christian. Metal.
http://www.jkkonsult.se/Nostalgi/uts...KEJnr14-88.jpg

Thus I refute you.
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post #82 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry Leper View Post
Showmanship.
Also, autism.
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post #83 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
Should I ask or just head on over to Wikipedia?

They got their name from a Talking Heads song title
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post #84 of 251
2/11/08 at 1:20am
If the band's name is overly maudlin (Points the finger at anything Emo or it's related subcultures) or overly ironic.
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post #85 of 251
2/11/08 at 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
If the band's name is overly maudlin (Points the finger at anything Emo or it's related subcultures) or overly ironic.
Or is a complete sentence, or sounds indistinguishable from the title of a Giallo film.
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post #86 of 251
2/11/08 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
I thought the guitars usually topped out at three at any given time with the Arcade Fire live (since there are always keyboards and drums to play), but I might be wrong. Anyway, you guys are right about GSYBE and Broken Social Scene. I'm pretty sure they both go over four at various times.
Ministry has been known to go up to four as well. Though their suckitude or lack thereof is probably dependent upon what album they were touring for when they did so.
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post #87 of 251
2/11/08 at 2:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack "Sue" Dnim View Post
Anyway I thought we were adding to a bullshit opinion thread, but apparently you felt we are constructing here some sort of indisputable criteria at which we will soon be able to scientifically claim a band sucks.
Sure it's an opinion thread; but for example someone saying "any band that uses a gong sucks" - and then a response naming three...well, two, at least, consensus "non-suck" bands shows that someone is on the wrong track.

I always thought the fun of these sorts of threads was in the debate; but if you prefer to shout your opinions into an echo chamber and consider that interaction, carry on as you will.
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post #88 of 251
2/11/08 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
Are defending post-Steve Clark Def Leppard or post-John Sykes Whitesnake here? Ronnie James Dio? Whatever the case, I respect your commitment and will feel some remorse but no hesitation when we finally face off. "I demand satisfaction!"
Post-Sykes Whitesnake is dubious; RJD has rocked for a long time. Both have their merits, however.

But attempting to defend Def Leppard, never mind post-Steve Clark, but post-Pyromania, is clearly the sign of someone with more guts than sense. I beseech you sir, look kindly on LisaNY's soft-headed loyalty and lay aside the indignities she has put upon you.
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post #89 of 251
2/11/08 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Sure it's an opinion thread; but for example someone saying "any band that uses a gong sucks" - and then a response naming three...well, two, at least, consensus "non-suck" bands shows that someone is on the wrong track.

I always thought the fun of these sorts of threads was in the debate; but if you prefer to shout your opinions into an echo chamber and consider that interaction, carry on as you will.
Yeah, but no band universally sucks, it's opinion. There's just no one here defending them. So, I would think each contribution would be taken with a grain of salt. But I guess, I shouldn't be arguing against discussion.

Quote:
I can't even think of an artist who does this. I guess it's sort of implicit (if you're sort of missing the point) in Fugazi's songs, but, if anything, they're a very strong counter-example.
Good Charlotte, Sum41, many of these pop punk bands like to downplay their affinity for money all the while hocking their mainstream 13 year old girl friendly music.

Nickelback, and Seether's celebrity fakes songs.

My actual written examples connected with my blanket dismissals.

I don't care for Avenge Sevenfold's aping of their influences, all while constantly abusing the guitar solo because those bands did it.
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post #90 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Sure it's an opinion thread; but for example someone saying "any band that uses a gong sucks" - and then a response naming three...well, two, at least, consensus "non-suck" bands shows that someone is on the wrong track.
Just tell me what bands I should like from now on.

And to be honest, that was a punch line to a joke I heard years ago. Everyone needs to re-fucking-lax.
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post #91 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
Stryper was the Avenged Sevenfold of their day. Talented, but still ass.
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post #92 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
The sex symbol thing is kind of an odd thing for a bunch of straight guys to be fighting over. Considering the respective female followings for more cerebral, nerdier bands like the Decemberists and masculine, tough-guy bands like Drive-By Truckers (I'm using two bands I love here, by the way, and both are bands I've seen multiple times), I'm thinking the geeks have the sex appeal.
I saw those two bands at the same concert on the same day. Weird.

Also, so many girls it wasn't even funny. DaveB 1, this thread 0.
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post #93 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:18am
You don't recognize any of the band members from when they had their hit(s), and they're playing a theme park/state fair.
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post #94 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by f86sabre View Post
Any band or artist that uses their name in the lyrics of a song. Pink Floyd’s “Have a Cigar” is exempted due to context.
Another exception - Dismemberment Plan, due to both context and magnificent, magnificent audacity.

As to the sex appeal/"masculinity" (whatever that means) of modern popular music - I don't have enough fingers on both hands to tick off all of the lovely, lovely fellows in rock. I don't know why thinking and sexuality are mutually exclusive in your mind, Devildoubt, but skinny boys with cardigans, big vocabularies, and guitars are hot, hot, hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack "Sue" Dnim
That's awesome Dave. Thanks, because I'm the no fun douchebag here.

I appreciate that you're into music. You're a drummer, right? I appreciate that you take music serious. However, this is an opinion based thread.
So we're not to take your opinions seriously? Good to know.

I'm going to leave the rest for Dave, as I assume he'll be here shortly. I just couldn't resist.

edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez
I always thought the fun of these sorts of threads was in the debate; but if you prefer to shout your opinions into an echo chamber and consider that interaction, carry on as you will.
Chavito, consider this the big hug that I was supposed to give you on Saturday, if the lousy weather hadn't thwarted our plans.
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post #95 of 251
2/11/08 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
I'm going to leave the rest for Dave, as I assume he'll be here shortly.

"...and DaveB is not as forgiving as I am."
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post #96 of 251
2/11/08 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
I don't know why thinking and sexuality are mutually exclusive in your mind, Devildoubt, but skinny boys with cardigans, big vocabularies, and guitars are hot, hot, hot.
I don't think that. My objection is that rock is becoming too cerebral. I have no problem with cerebral acts. This was not an either/or situation.

Thinking and sexuality are not exclusive in my mind. My current girlfriend is a tax attorney who graduated magna cum laude in our law school class. She wears nice turtle-neck sweaters and pencil-skirts and we argue about what satisfies the Due Process substantial nexus requirement for States to levy taxes.

And she loves Greg Dulli.

The uber-point to my post (and mainly, it was for humor) was that rock, of late, is too much like Vampire Weekend (ick) and not enough like Rocket From the Crypt, i.e., big dumb and fun. We need more Bang Camero and less acts aping Weezer and trying to re-do Pinkerton. That being said, there's an element of the intellectual in both RFTC and Bang Camero. Those acts can only exist if there is some degree of guiding intelligence to them. In other words, it takes a lot of smarts to act dumb.
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post #97 of 251
2/11/08 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
Are defending post-Steve Clark Def Leppard or post-John Sykes Whitesnake here? Ronnie James Dio? Whatever the case, I respect your commitment and will feel some remorse but no hesitation when we finally face off. "I demand satisfaction!"
Post-Steve Clark Def Leppard.

I, too, look forward to our face-off...



"I must break you."
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post #98 of 251
2/11/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
I beseech you sir, look kindly on LisaNY's soft-headed loyalty and lay aside the indignities she has put upon you.
DEATH! I can't even come up with anything in retort! Just - MUST KILL!

Seriously though - you slapped down post-Pyromania - meaning, no love for Hysteria? Okay, I don't figure there's going to be a lotta love for Slang, but none for Hysteria? I mean, true, Steve was on his way out - he was literally dying, in the physical sense, from his abuses, and even during the recording of that album, Phil did most of the guitar work. But he did a brilliant job, I have to say.
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post #99 of 251
2/11/08 at 1:54pm
Some "not-hard&fast" criteria in which to judge if a band sucks:
  • They can't play their own instruments.
  • They can't write their own music.
  • They can't play live (consistantly well) without pre-recorded help, or have the ability to read their audience.
  • They can't appreciate the history of music or appreciate/play a variety of musical styles.
  • They can't play their songs in any way other than how they sound on their record.
  • They can't get any girls to meet them backstage.

Now some of these measuring sticks are really impossible to know for sure (can't VS won't or don't) and no individual criteria is usually enough on its own (multiple failures however are a good clue... 3 or more), and there is ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, but I think there are certain truths here.
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post #100 of 251
2/11/08 at 2:02pm
When a gig is promoted as 'An evening With...'
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