Dems cave on FISA bill, drive more nails into own coffins

And this is why congress has a 22% approval rating.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

So how did Senators Clinton and Obama vote?

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Shocking that she didn't show up.

I knew the answer, just pointing out the irony.

Didn't I witness a debate between Clinton and Obama were she was criticizing not showing up to vote???

Can we just elect puppies and kittens for Congress this year? They wouldn't be any less productive and they'd look so fucking adorable.

Can we do a write in for that one?

The thing that pisses me off the most about Clinton and Obama is that as much as both talk about how they're the right one to lead this country, on a fight like this where they could have actually shown the country leadership, they instead choose to just state a position and then run back to campaigning.

The funny this is that following along logically with the actions taken by this administration, is it too far out the realm of possibility to believe that they will use this new legislation to cover them listening in on the actions of their political opponents in the future? I'm not a conspiracy nut but this administration has shown over and over that they don't have any sense of decency and people (especially some Washington politicians) continue to believe that the radical abuses of power they see happen in foreign countries cannot happen here in the US.

I'm coming to get more and more bothered by the similarities between this administration and some foreign dictator (not trying to be hyperbolic here) with the only difference is that one is subtle in their power manipulation and other is open about their power grab. When you have the top law enforcement person in this country say that they won't investigate the acts of torture done by an administration because prior DoJ rulings said it was A-OK at the time, then where's our rule of law anymore?

I would respect a person more if they went and committed the actions and owned up to and defended them than I would for what this current administration has done in its secrecy and obfuscation. At this rate, would anyone be surprised if a terrorist attack occurred before Bush left office and the administration tried to do the same as Giuliani did after September 11th and "postpone" the inauguration? As I said earlier, I'm not a conspiracy nut, but the actions taken already by this administration makes me not want to put anything past them.

Only if they had to wear tiny, cute suits. CSPAN's ratings would go through the roof.

I would like to publicly apologize for voting for Herb Kohl in the past. I offer up my votes for Russ Feingold to compensate for my foolishness. Rest assured, I won't make the same mistake again.

I voted for Webb so I feel like a jackass too.

The Puppy Congress!

Obama voted against immunity for the telecoms, the idiot Clinton didn't even show up to vote. What was your point again?

How do you vote 'no' on this? Isn't this shit kind of covered in the Constitution?

Ditto.

I've apologized for Dianne Feinstein in the past, but I'll do it again if it will make a difference.

Nelson's gonna show up in here and spin Hillary's non-vote as something her constituents wanted her to not vote on.

I tried to call both my senators today, but Dianne Feinstein's line was busy. I would never have guessed she'd be such a Judas!

Cthulhu bless my Washington state senators for voting 'yea'. Too bad about the others though; some Senate, eh?

Both parties talk about being different, but deep down they are the same. Both parties talk about things they never ever do.

Not really. She's been a huge letdown since I've moved to CA.

I just wrote a blog on this subject, if anyone can stomach my ramblings.

Good blog piece, yt.

But I think we're forgetting: at least NOW the Democrats don't look weak.

Sigh. The only reasonable explanation I've ever heard for what's going on in Congress is that the Dems are afraid that if they stand up and put up a fight, they won't be supported by their constituents. Could that be real? Or is it just BS? Is it Washington culture? I know someone who works for a prominent Dem senator and while he's mostly circumspect about the whole scene, he has painted a picture that's like Mad Max in the Thunderdome, that the Dems are constantly under siege and have to watch their every utterance or be torn apart by the crowd.

So the fuck what? So did a few other Senators. What I'm saying is that if you're running for the office of President and want people to believe that you can take the lead on important issues, then where the fuck are you when it counts? I understand about campaigning and all the shit attached with it, but don't give me some bullshit about "Hey, I voted yea or nay on [fill in the legislation]." when everyone knows that your heightened profile would have allowed you to take the lead and actually push through some form of better legislation.

Both Obama and Clinton have done this in the past and I don't expect much difference between now and November. The only candidate that I've seen do differently was Dodd and it's a shame he's no longer running. I'm just disappointed in with the actions of the Dems remaining Presidential candidates.

I totally forgot Chris Dodd ran for president.

Nice going, there.

What bothers me the most is that I've seen people defend these kinds of things. How can people become such cowards is beyond me.

I hope the fuckers over here don't get any ideas. I'd seriously advocate violence against the state if this were to happen.

Wow, I can't figure out if you're incredibly dense or just incredibly retarded. What more can they do then vote (which Clinton didn't even accomplish)? This bill was a lost cause, a vote against it says everything you need to know about those brave politicians who took a stand.

So are you saying that they shouldn't have done shit because the bill was a lost cause? All I'm asking for is that they show some sort of leadership while doing their current job. Check out Chris Dodd to see what taking the lead on a piece of leadership. Look at Feingold to see what speaking out and fighting for some legislation is like. My problem with both Clinton and Obama is that all they've done is just speak some pretty words and no much else. Yes, we can see how they've voted on different legislation while being a Senator, but what actual bills of consequence have they tried to round up support and push through? You know, actually show some leadership?

The vote tally:
Democrats -- 31-18
Republicans -- 0-49

Compare that to votes on other matters. The Republicans virtually all vote the same way while there always seems to be a sizeable block of Democrats who go along with them.

This is a good point and a stark contrast with McCain who did show a lot of leadership and took great risk with regards to campaign finance reform.

Democrats are pushing the same agenda as Bush, it's obvious already. They are no better. The two sides play off each other to advance a goal and they give the illusion that we have a say, we don't.

Democrats are fucking socialist pussies!!!!!!!

Republicans are fucking fascists!!!!

Tell us how you really feel.

So let's all vote for Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is Ron Paul doing with all those donations? Are we sure he's not making a profit out of the whole election process?

Well, it looks like the Dems in charge in the House grew a backbone and stood up to Bush.

Keith Olbermann made an excellent point in his commentary on FISA:

Whole thing is here.

I wish there was some way to fit that whole Olbermann piece as my signature.

Everything was working in this commentary. Saying out loud how the merging of government and business interests is the definition of fascism was his other coup de grace in this one. He did good.

The question is, why can the Dems not force Bush to make that call? They gave up before they even sent it to him. If they could make Bush veto good legislation they would have a much better position to argue for the presidency from.

As it is, it makes them look like they can't even get it together enough to pass anything. They got voted into power because people were sick of the Republicans not doing anything and the Democrats are doing just as little.

I knew it was you, Senator Webb. You broke my heart.

I don't think the problem is that Democrats aren't doing anything as much as when they try to do it, Republicans filibuster or throw hissy fits. Of course this wouldn't matter if the Democratic leadership weren't too stupid to realize that when they actually demonstrate they have spines, public support increases. There is a reason why public opinion of Congress is so low and it's not because the Democrats aren't "bipartisan" enough. Hopefully, Pelosi's recent statements will be backed up with action instead of her just throwing a very weak bone to the liberal wing of the party. But I doubt it.

The House and Senate bills have to be reconciled and hopefully the Democratic representatives won't capitulate.
Like usual, Glenn Greenwald and Firedoglake have great breakdowns, especially this post: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...101/index.html

emphasis mine

I'm sort of puzzled by this response. Hasn't the last several years been a textbook example of this administration sending exactly the message that they were above the law? You think the rest of the party wants to give that little perk up?

Something else that's moderately puzzling to me: The near unamity of the Republican votes. When you look at the Dem votes, you don't see the hard party lines nearly as much. That tells me that they're at least attempting to approach things with some thought or compromise. I used to think the old Doonesbury strip was a funny satire. You know...the conservative radio guy telling the liberal radio guy that "Of course you lose. You actually have doubts." or something like that.

Guess it's just the truth, huh?

I think voting against the majority and refusing to cave to groupthink pressure is accomplishing something, especially when running for the highest office in the land. Obama's shown that he's not a yes-man, and that he's willing to build consensus and coalitions. Hillary's shown that she'll vote whichever way her advisors and polls tell her will make her as palatable as possible to the electorate.

This seems like at least somewhat fair criticism. Obama's relative youth WRT public service means he may not have a lot of decisive leadership examples or victories. Clinton, despite her rhetoric of a thousand years experience, also can't point to any leadership or victory of hers. She's disingenuously trying to both take credit for and distinguish herself from her husband's two terms in office.