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Battlestar Galactica: Season 4 - Page 2

post #51 of 936
4/2/08 at 11:46am
I was wondering the same thing. I'm caught up now, but between finishing season two and the release of season three I was hoping that SF would repeat the episodes. No luck, only their homegrown brand of crap.

When I went "elsewhere" to find the season three eps I got a warning letter from my cable provider.

Stupid Sci Fi. If it weren't for being recently initiated to BSG I wouldn't give them my time.

That being said, I look forward to ordering a Tony Packo's pizza and finding out what the heck is going on.
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post #52 of 936
4/2/08 at 11:46am
I've got the last four episodes of season three left to watch (for the first time, no less) and I still can't wait for the new season to start up. I got all bummed that it wouldn't be for another year before I got to see season 4 on DVD (lack of cable and all) until I came across this: BSG at the Alamo Drafthouse

Every Friday they show the last two episodes on the big screen for a $5 food ticket, which can be used for beer.
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post #53 of 936
4/2/08 at 11:57am
If you don't mind watching at your computer too much, Hulu has the last 5 episodes of Season 3 available for free.
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post #54 of 936
4/2/08 at 12:02pm
I'm in the exact same boat as DaveB. The one thing I'm looking forward to is being able to watch these episodes fresh, and thusly unspoiled. Knowing about 4 of the final 5 cylons ahead of time was a bit of a bummer (not that it made seeing the "reveal" any less cool).
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post #55 of 936
4/2/08 at 12:04pm
When does this start?
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post #56 of 936
4/2/08 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
I'm in the exact same boat as DaveB. The one thing I'm looking forward to is being able to watch these episodes fresh, and thusly unspoiled. Knowing about 4 of the final 5 cylons ahead of time was a bit of a bummer (not that it made seeing the "reveal" any less cool).
Which is amazing because I was completely unspoiled until I saw the BSG season 4 banner at the top of this site revealing one of the final five.

Outside of that, everything else was a surprise.
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post #57 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:15pm
I had recorded season 3 so I could watch them all together and my TiVo crashed and I lost them all. I have lived in fear of threads like this for months now, but my wife & I tore through the DVDs this weekend (see honey, aren't you glad you had surgery now?) and I'm all caught up. I am so glad I didn't have to wait the months and months between the actual end of S3 and now. Just waiting a week is really annoying.

And yes, three cheers for DirecTV carrying SciFi HD!

So, are most of you thinking Starbuck is alive for reasons other than being a cylon? It's a debate I've been having this week with the one other person in my office that watches the show (ugh. 1 BSG fan, 8 billion Rock of Love fans. Kill me now.)

EDIT: Grace Park wins the sexy contest, hands down. Followed by Helo.
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post #58 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:23pm
I have to say that because it's the last season, I'm hoping to see an episode that will top Home part 2.
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post #59 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tieman View Post
So, are most of you thinking Starbuck is alive for reasons other than being a cylon? It's a debate I've been having this week with the one other person in my office that watches the show (ugh. 1 BSG fan, 8 billion Rock of Love fans. Kill me now.)
Hard to say, but I read the piece in EW last week (last night, after finishing season 3), and it sounds like they're going to be coy about what's going on with her at least for the first few episodes. Since she's the most obvious fifth Cylon, it would be weird for the writers to stretch out the revelation if other possibilities didn't exist.

Of course, there's also the implication that there's "something different" about the final five. Perhaps she'll be key in figuring out what that something different is. The one thing that strikes me as particularly strange is that Tigh served with Adama for years and years, decades before the attack on the colonies that kicked off the series and introduced the concept of human-looking Cylons to humanity. Maybe these Cylons are actually replacements made to look like specific people, and Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, and Anders did actually exist as humans at one point?
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post #60 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
I have to say that because it's the last season, I'm hoping to see an episode that will top Home part 2.
Just thinking about the ending of that episode is enough to give me goosebumps </geek>
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post #61 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:33pm
As Dave said, we finally made it through season three last night, so this thread is no longer a vile and dangerous temptation. I managed to stay largely unspoiled, though I had been pretty certain that Tigh was a cylon from the start. It just made dramatic sense. And now I think they should throw him out an airlock. I'm sick of lookin' at him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tieman View Post
So, are most of you thinking Starbuck is alive for reasons other than being a cylon?
Yes. We still don't know who the 12th cylon is and Starbuck would be the obvious choice. Therefore, it isn't her (my vote, incidentally, is with Madame President). I don't know what the hell she is (aside from a total slammin' hottie, Gods help me), but she isn't a cylon.

Quote:
EDIT: Grace Park wins the sexy contest, hands down. Followed by Helo.
Star. buck. Though, yeah, I'll totally give you Helo.
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post #62 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
The one thing that strikes me as particularly strange is that Tigh served with Adama for years and years, decades before the attack on the colonies that kicked off the series and introduced the concept of human-looking Cylons to humanity. Maybe these Cylons are actually replacements made to look like specific people, and Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, and Anders did actually exist as humans at one point?
I was just saying the same thing to Swice on chat.

Saul served in the military for years, We've seen flashbacks of him being younger. He served in the last Cylon war.
It makes absolutely no sense for him to be a Cylon unless he was "replaced" bodie snatchers wise, when he was captured in New Caprica.
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post #63 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:40pm
I don´t think the final Cylon is going to be Starbuck either. Can´t come up though with any decent reasoning, exept that it would be to obvious to build the whole season drama upon like others said already. I was always thinking about Lee Adama as the fifth as the last minutes of Razor seem to lend at least some reason to that thought.

Anyway, I haven´t seen this posted here. But the names of the first ten episodes are (Just to be sure I am putting it into inviso-text for fear of spoilers):

4x01 - "He That Believeth In Me"
4x02 - "Six of One"
4x03 - "The Ties That Bind"
4x04 - "Escape Velocity"
4x05 - "The Road Less Traveled"
4x06 - "Faith"
4x07 - "Guess What's coming To Dinner"
4x08 - "Sine Qua Non"
4x09 - "The Hub"
4x10 - "Revelations"
So say we all.
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post #64 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:44pm
I've also been trying to figure out what else was being hinted at with Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, and Anders all hearing "All Along the Watchtower"
Quote:
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke but uh
But you and I we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hours getting late
Oh, and I'm watching Razor tonight, in case that has any clues.
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post #65 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Yes. We still don't know who the 12th cylon is and Starbuck would be the obvious choice. Therefore, it isn't her (my vote, incidentally, is with Madame President).
It just occurred to me that if Tati and I are right, one of the two people I was fairly positive couldn't possibly be Cylons (the Adamas, assuming a biological relationship and no sneaky adoption retcons) could be a Cylon. Now, that would be a twist.
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post #66 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Do special conditions apply for this series and the Sci-Fi Channel or something? It seems like there's this huge gap in quality between the channel's usual fare and this show; you'd think they'd want to put it on in primetime during the week and re-run it constantly, instead of showing the cheap-ass space monster movies that always seem to be on.
My guess is the schlocky junk that passes for Sci-Fi's usual programming gets better ratings than BSG. The origin of the mini-series, though, was as a joint venture between Universal and the British SkyOne, I think. So that might account for it's comfortable sophistication.
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post #67 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
I was just saying the same thing to Swice on chat.

Saul served in the military for years, We've seen flashbacks of him being younger. He served in the last Cylon war.
It makes absolutely no sense for him to be a Cylon unless he was "replaced" bodie snatchers wise, when he was captured in New Caprica.
You probably ought to check out the old season three thread to get more detail on this, but it is actually very likely that the final five are thousands of years old, possibly from a previous iteration of the cycle.
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post #68 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
Saul served in the military for years, We've seen flashbacks of him being younger. He served in the last Cylon war.
It makes absolutely no sense for him to be a Cylon unless he was "replaced" bodie snatchers wise, when he was captured in New Caprica.
That is something I tried to wrap my head around as well and I feel that we simply have not enough information on the nature of the five cylons to make more than a guess.
Though I don´t think they have to be "replaced" necessarily.

We know the final five "are different than the others."
We know "that everything that happened will happen again."
So history seems to evolve in cycles in that universe. Therefore it could very well be that the final five are just about to become "cylon gods" and kick of the renewal of the cycle in one way or the other. Then they don´t have to be cylons from "birth" but maybe just destined to become the trigger for the new cycle. Does that make any sense?
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post #69 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:49pm
Well, because they're different than the other cylons, could these not have been prototypes of the humlons?

I mean, not to get too out there, but isn't it possible that the scientists (or a small faction of) that created the original cylons were working on more human-type models? It's been stated that the humlons had/have no knowledge of these "final five" - except Biers, who had some type of "awakening" (tapping into some new network?) and Head 6, who may be intuiting things from Baltar's knowledge or she is a more supernatural, angel-type, not an actual cylon thing...

Also, if the cylons actually created these five, there had to be some prototypes to get to where they were today... there was a - forgive me for not recalling the number off the top of my head - 30-40 year period where there was no sign of the Cylon, whatsoever. Tigh might have been their first, put in place before the first war, and they were trying to see how he'd integrate?

Also, I'm with Zooey, I think Roslin is the final cylon. Just me and wild spec, though.
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post #70 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:49pm
But we've never seen indications that Cylons "age".
The half Cylon babies do. But the full models? They are supposed to be just that, models.

He served in the military all his life, he's known Adama for decades. He had to be younger looking in the past.
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post #71 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tieman View Post
Oh, and I'm watching Razor tonight, in case that has any clues.
Razor sucks.
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post #72 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:53pm
Who's to say that these five don't age?

Maybe they're not completely cylon - perhaps there's some type of neural net or computer or chip or whatever in their brains. They don't seem any stronger than a normal human, so that implies their bodies are more human than cylon...
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post #73 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post
You probably ought to check out the old season three thread to get more detail on this, but it is actually very likely that the final five are thousands of years old, possibly from a previous iteration of the cycle.
I've run some searches, and it looks like that thread no longer exists. Are there any more clues that lead to this interpretation beyond what was mentioned in the last couple posts?
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post #74 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:54pm
There have been complete pages of speculation about this...

Edit: Season 3 thread!
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post #75 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:56pm
Yeah, there have been.

Just getting warmed back up for Friday, though.
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post #76 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:57pm
Could the final five be determined by a confluence of bloodlines? The writers kinda wrote themselves into an interesting box with this latest revelation. I don't even know if the writers are going to bother answering some of the more technical questions surrounding the origins of the final five. Instead of concentrating on the "how," they might try to explain the "why." But I'd be super happy if they did try to rationalize the "how" in a fun, escapist way.
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post #77 of 936
4/2/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Razor sucks.
Nuts. Gonna watch it anyways.
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post #78 of 936
4/2/08 at 2:14pm
I'm glad somebody dug up that Season 3 thread. It's a great refresher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
I've run some searches, and it looks like that thread no longer exists. Are there any more clues that lead to this interpretation beyond what was mentioned in the last couple posts?
I couldn't remember the details (thus the reference the the other thread), but I think these are some of the key points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
The temple they found on the Algae Planet was tied in with the final five, as evidenced by Deanna having a hallucination of them when she stepped in a certain spot. That temple was built by the 13th colony after leaving Kobol. It's pretty obvious that the final five are part of something very much bigger and outside the main conflict, and probably a version of the original show's Ship of Light story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post
First, all signs, like their (spiritual) images being at the Temple of Jupiter for D'Anna to see, and the fact that the main Cylons have never had any contact with them, means that there can be no restriction on age, not until we know where they, and, in fact, all the skinjob Cylons came from.

We forget that the show has never explained that bit. Remember that no one knows what was going on in Cylon space during the time between the Cylon war and the exodus from the colonies. Plus, Cylons probably did exist before Tigh was born. It's not like they revolted immediately after the created. They had to have existed in the colonies for some time before the first war started. And then there's the possibility that perhaps the Cylon revolt was initiated by humans who had been experimenting with human like models or the creation of human-Cylon hybrids.

Also, we have no idea what role Earth really plays in this. Everyone merely sees it as a destination, but we won't know for sure until the show nears its end.
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post #79 of 936
4/2/08 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
It just occurred to me that if Tati and I are right, one of the two people I was fairly positive couldn't possibly be Cylons (the Adamas, assuming a biological relationship and no sneaky adoption retcons) could be a Cylon. Now, that would be a twist.
Well, it's either that the 5 snatched up these individuals, or they were them all along. Now, they aged and pretty much lived as humans do, but like Owen said, it was said or hinted earlier that they're the old models, that the Master Plan of the Cylons was their's all along. Could they had the technology to mimic humans so much?

And let's notice that they were not affected by the deep-space probe they encountered that pretty much decimated a basestar.
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post #80 of 936
4/2/08 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Razor sucks.
I thought it was pretty damn fun, myself.
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post #81 of 936
4/2/08 at 5:23pm
I've always thought Lee was the final Cylon and Baltar is the son of the Cylon god, like Jesus, born as a human. The whole "Adama is a Cylon" bit from season one seems like it was hiding the truth in plain sight. There's also something about Cylons being attracted to other Cylons.

Do I need to capitalize that? Probably not.
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post #82 of 936
4/2/08 at 5:42pm
I always thought it would make the most sense for Lee's character arc to be one of the last remaining human survivors to reach Earth. To outlive Bill, Kara, Roslin, etc...
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post #83 of 936
4/2/08 at 6:26pm
Thread Starter 
(SPOILERS for season 3)

The showrunners, as I recall, mentioned that they're going to go into the backstory of the various characters this season, and they seemed to imply that the four of the final five Cylons we know about would have a backstory that would make sense once we saw it.

I'm not crazy about either Adama being a Cylon, just because it's thematically sloppy--it would make Lee half-Cylon, for instance. That's discounting the "body snatcher" theory, which would at least iron out the logistics--though as of right now it would seem that they don't want any of the three main characters (Adama, Apollo, and Starbuck) to be Cylons. I personally don't think Roslyn's a Cylon either, because the M.O. of both the Seven and the Five appears to be to stay out of the limelight--hence, the XO and the President's main advisor, rather than the Captain and the President themselves. And needless to say, Starbuck's waaaaaay too obvious.

I'm going with the "thousands of years old" theory for the Final Five, even though there are issues with Tigh's aging and whatnot. I think it's clear these Five have a different agenda, almost certainly geared towards uniting the two races.

I also have the sneaking suspicion that the Five are one-of-a-kind models--that there are no extra Tyrols or Tighs sneaking around out there.
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post #84 of 936
4/2/08 at 6:35pm
I love how part of Kara's destiny was to go back to Caprica to rescue one of the final five. It also ties into how lucky he was surviving two resistances.
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post #85 of 936
4/2/08 at 9:58pm
I think Lee Adama is Final # 5. He was willing to

SPOILER FROM SEASON 3













turn against his own father to support the concept of a freely elected government (the miniseries). He guaranteed Tom Zarak in “Bastille Day” that the fleet would hold free elections. And he turned on his father, the Fleet, and the President in the last two episodes of season 3. In each case, he opted to support abstract ideals over support for individuals, even family. This just does not make sense unless he is a Cylon, or a psychotically repressed, fucked up human.

SPOILER ENDS!







And he could be Admiral Adama’s adopted son.

In the 70’s version of the show, there were a couple of episodes where the fleet encounters aliens who are to all intents and purposes, angels and the Devil (Patrick Macnee was the Devil). MacNee tried to lead the fleet into destruction while the “angels” helped Starbuck and Apollo.

In this new version, I think Kara was in the care of said angels, and that the Head Six and Head Balter entities are devils or The Devil. Also, the Nostril Cylon in Razor clearly wanted to destroy Kara, hence his message to the Scappy Do chick.
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post #86 of 936
4/2/08 at 10:12pm
Those instances may be due to the fact that Lee Adama is the "rebellious son in the shadow of his important father" archtype, not that he's a Cylon. I'm not against him being one, but those are poor reasons.

And can we quit posting spoiler warnings? If you haven't seen all of Season 3, you probably should be reading this thread.

Tigh is a Cylon.
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post #87 of 936
4/2/08 at 10:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Those instances may be due to the fact that Lee Adama is the "rebellious son in the shadow of his important father" archtype, not that he's a Cylon. I'm not against him being one, but those are poor reasons.

And can we quit posting spoiler warnings? If you haven't seen all of Season 3, you probably should be reading this thread.

Tigh is a Cylon.

Defending Baltar, and being willing to put your own father and surrogate mother on the stand and destroy them, is a lot more than adolescent rebelling. And Lee’s speech afterwards seems to indicate that he is taking Humanity’s side (with the big H) over any one individual. It will be interesting to see how his character arc develops.
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post #88 of 936
4/2/08 at 11:21pm
A lot of the stuff though is about how the Baltar's lawyer manipulates Lee's idealism. Lee has shown he has an idealistic interpretation and when not sitting around being fat, he's not willing to compromise those ideals.

The lawyer sees a son that's trying to be his own person and follow his own ideals and takes advantage of that situation. If I'm recalling correctly, at the end of the episodes, Lee is clearly aware that he's been manipulated but doesn't regret the principled stand he took.
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post #89 of 936
4/3/08 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
But we've never seen indications that Cylons "age".
The half Cylon babies do. But the full models? They are supposed to be just that, models.

He served in the military all his life, he's known Adama for decades. He had to be younger looking in the past.
Maybe they do age - but once that switch is turned, as what happened during the final S3 ep of their "awakening", the aging stops?

Just thinking out loud.


And something else? I've been thinking of Tyrol and Cally's baby. Not sure if this has been discussed; although, I'm sure it has - but their baby is a hybrid. Correct?

Doesn't this change the dynamic surrounding Sharon and Helo's baby?
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post #90 of 936
4/3/08 at 3:38am
Not so much. Hera was first, which always makes her a little more special. (Plus, nobody knows that Chief is a Cylon, besides the other four, and they were never caught up in the baby-hubub.)

Also, now that Nick is around, we've got our Adam and Eve.
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post #91 of 936
4/3/08 at 9:36am
I wouldn't like it if one of the other main characters was the final cylon. What's the point? just to be daring and controversial, just for the sake of it?

I still like the show, but I think I preferred it when it was just a bunch of ragtag survivors searching for earth, fleeing the Cylons. It felt real, and relatable - which is what Moore said they were going for - and now it's a bit too sci-fi and wierd, at least for me.
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post #92 of 936
4/3/08 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post
I wouldn't like it if one of the other main characters was the final cylon. What's the point? just to be daring and controversial, just for the sake of it?

I still like the show, but I think I preferred it when it was just a bunch of ragtag survivors searching for earth, fleeing the Cylons. It felt real, and relatable 9 which is what Moore said they were going for - and now it's a bit too sci-fi and wierd, at least for me.
What? Too sci-fi? If anything, and we'll be able to judge once the series is done, and only then, it adds more depth than 4-5 seasons of only running away would. It took a different path than the original with the infiltrators, adding way more gray to the clear and shitty black and white of the original series, and it didn't change midway through- at the end of the pilot the implications were clear; some of the crew are Cylons, and anyone could be a Cylon.
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post #93 of 936
4/3/08 at 10:30am
"it adds more depth than 4-5 seasons of only running away would. It took a different path than the original with the infiltrators, adding way more gray to the clear and shitty black and white of the original series, and it didn't change midway through- at the end of the pilot the implications were clear; some of the crew are Cylons, and anyone could be a Cylon."

Yeah, I agree with that. It's a rich, complex and intelligent show. For me, the depth and the 'grey' comes from the political subtex and relevance to today's world. Making peole Cylons just for the sake of it isn't deep.
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post #94 of 936
4/3/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post
For me, the depth and the 'grey' comes from the political subtex and relevance to today's world. Making peole Cylons just for the sake of it isn't deep.
And they use the fact that anyone can be a Cylon just like anyone could be a terrorist, for example. It didn't cheapen the show, it made it better, for using the theme of identity.
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post #95 of 936
4/3/08 at 11:16am
Very nice interview with Ron Moore regarding the new season. Some spoilermaterial, though you will be warned again in the interview itself. Just in case!
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post #96 of 936
4/3/08 at 11:20am
Cutesy article on "'Battlestar Galactica': Why It Might Save Your Marriage
A married couple discusses this sci-fi series' cross-gender appeal"

http://tv.msn.com/tv/battlestar
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post #97 of 936
4/3/08 at 12:36pm
I treat the start of this final season of BSG the way I usually treat big movies coming out. I usually view TV shows as less urgent viewing than movies but I'd never think of not watching BSG as soon as possible.
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post #98 of 936
4/3/08 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
I've never gotten the attitude that they should pretend it's not a SF show. They have spaceships and killer robots. The similarities to our society are what makes the show so weird and disorienting, not the differences (and judging from the S3 finale, the writers are doing that on purpose).
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post #99 of 936
4/3/08 at 7:18pm
Anyone plan on watching the premiere online tomorrow at noon? Also, any word on how good scifi.com's rewind service is, how soon/if they post new episodes, etc? I don't have cable, and I'm hoping to be able to stream new episodes online (the major networks have really spoiled me in this regard) but don't even know if they're planning on doing so.
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post #100 of 936
4/3/08 at 8:58pm
Thread Starter 
This is my last chance to say it before we all start talking about the S4 premiere, so I'll just say that I'm rewatching S3 and the first 8 episodes are extremely fucking solid. I also have good memories of the algae planet/Eye of Jupiter storyline, so I'm going to go ahead and say the first half of S3 was the show at its best. It's too bad it got so bogged down in soap opera stuff in the second half (or did it? Maybe when I rewatch it it'll be great too.)
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