To the people writing all the anti-Owen shit on the talkbacks. - Page 2

Wasn't there a whole article on CHUD called "Who The Fuck Is Zac Efron"? I'm pretty sure Owen knows who Zac Efron is, even if he never looked anywhere beyond this site. I don't give a fuck who Zak Efron is, so his misfired joke/bad research didn't affect my day, really.

I don't think any of the public and occasionally hypocritical flogging thus far (on the boards, at least) can ever be construed as talking behind his back, so no worries there.

Nora's son, by the way. Just FYI.

He's good friends with Ed Bradley's son, Milton.

For the record, I didn't say I don't know who Zac Efron is; I said I've never seen any of his work.

You've seen his mom's work though, I imagine.


And played his friend's games.

Owen's writing is poor. It drags down the main page at a time when CHUD is trying to expand it's readership.
Nick, how do you defend his place there?

That was a long time ago in internet years. There's a lot more competition out there and CHUD has kept up with it because it has IMPROVED. With that kind of forward momentum it seems regressive to bring an amateur on board.
The bar of quality has been raised since you started and Owen is far below it. You need to keep producing articles that are comparable to Devin and Beaks to maintain the site's momentum.

Thanks for finally joining the conversation YOU started Nick. I love this site and will continue to visit no matter what sort of content you provide, BUT my enthusiasm has dampened considerably since the revamp (which is the complete and total opposite of the desired effect.) This site is smart and funny, something that is a rarity on the web outside of The Onion AV Club...please continue this trend and give Owen the help he desperately needs. There is no reason to let the poor guy flounder under the attacks of the trolls.

Nick, you should secretly write one of Owen's articles but still keep his name on it.

Then see if people still bash on it.

If they still do, then everyone may realize some of their hate is absurd.

Right. Because a dislike of Nick's writing is inherently absurd.

I seriously can't understand how even the most slightly discerning reader could like Owen's writing. It's boring, it's poorly constructed and it lacks any insight. Defending it because of a sense of brand loyalty to CHUD (Phil!, I'm looking in your direction) is counter productive.

Nick - You should give a damn about the quality of writing on your site. Owen isn't just writing DVD reviews for obscure 1980s TV shows, he is one of the main contributors posting news. You aren't blind. It's obvious he isn't a naturally talented writer. Be a mentor and edit for him if you think he is good enough to be here until he learns the ropes or boot him. Otherwise, it just looks like you don't care about the quality of the main page.

BobClark - I've been called a "tenacious troll" by the site's loudest voice. (and you stuck up for me. Aww.) No blind brand-loyalty here.

I wasn't defending Owen's writing, and I've PM'd him when I've had suggestions, which I think is less counter-productive than e-hazing him on a message board all day. But I wasn't defending the writing, I was just pointing out some hypocritical dogpiling. One of the alpha monkeys decided to make a scene, and now it's the new thing to do.

Publicly calling out the site's owner on a message board is less about concern for the site and more about showing one's ass. And not super classy.

Not calling out Nick is ignoring the big pink afro'd elephant in the room. If you are willing to cut Owen some slack and even offer constructive advice, you're a far better man than me. I just think CHUD has come too far to use writers that require so much patience and guidance.
Nick has put the carriage in front of the horse here, expanding the scope of the site before he had any quality content to fill it with. This is a shame because then the good stuff- the solid articles from Devin, Beaks, Russ- get lost in a quagmire of amateur crap.

Really? You really think that? They still have the A stories, and the articles all have author names on them. Hate them if you want, but you can't accuse Owen's articles of actually obscuring other site content.

I really can't think of one Devin, Beaks or Russ article that's been lost in this alleged "quagmire of amateur crap." It's not like Owen's spearheading the direction of the front page. People are overreacting.

Phil's made the most sensible posts in this thread by far. Other than my Milton Bradley joke, which was awesome.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Owen is personally obscuring them. But the new layout with all the new crap all over the main page makes it harder to find a proper article. I'd rather not visually navigate around the strip club blogs to find a news item. I'm connecting Owen to this because it seems to me Nick keeps him only because he needs ANY content fill out the site's expanded size.

Perhaps diluting is a better word?

Guys, you may not like Owen's writing thus far, but you have to realise that Nick has met Owen, you haven't. And Owen was a nice guy.

I hope you fuckers are happy. You turned sweet, life-affirming little Rodney Alan Ripoll into one of you.

WE ACCEPT YOU! WE ACCEPT YOU!

I think you're on to something Patrick...I think CHUD should send Owen on a tour so that each of us can meet him and see how nice he is. Because Lord knows that it is impossible to be critical of a nice guy.

Have you been diagnosed with a specific learning disability, Doug? The main news menu remains exactly the same, and there are no blogs on it. The only problem with the news menu right now is that the five featured stories are removed from it, and that is something we're working to change.

Further, Owen doesn't even write that much. I still tend to write more stories in a day than he does. He does low level news items. His name is under every headline he writes. If you don't like what he's doing, he's not covering the most exciting stories and you can see which ones he wrote, so just fucking avoid them.

You guys like to bitch. We get it. That's why you have your other board where you shit talk CHUD. But don't pretend you're offering some kind of constructive criticism when you're just being a child.

Nope, nothing childish there. But I agree with you Devin, fuck hoping for a better and brighter CHUD, bring on more illiterate writers and talkbacks! AICN this site up real good!

Oh bullshit. My criticism is perfectly valid.
You know Owen's articles suck. But you have a vested interest in this place, so I could understand it if you just stayed silent. But don't run in here accusing me of being childish when it's bloody obvious he has no place on the main site. Since when are you so forgiving of ineptitude?

Back in the day, I used to write for various arms of the CHUD brand. I wrote over at Fetal Films waaay back in 2000/2001, was co-editor (with Adam MacAllister I believe) then sole editor of the Sci-Fighter when it was around, hell I even did DVD news updates here on CHUD.com, and some DVD reviews too. My reviews were light-weight compared to some of the critical analysis I've read on the site over the last few years, but I got decent feedback and constructive criticism, never this level of vitriol no matter how light-hearted my approach.

I NEVER would have even considered myself able to do any of this had it not been for the opportunity Nick gave me, not in a million years. Yeah I started a bunch of shit a few years ago and generated bad blood between me and Nick, and between me and this community. But I never forgot the kindness and the desire on Nick's part to let people grow and do things they might not otherwise get a chance to do. Nick and I have buried the hatchet since all of that. The rest of the old community still thinks I am a cunt, and I deserve that. But that opinion was earned on the basis of my past actions, never on the contributions I made. Give this new kid a chance. He's been updating and making sure content gets out there. Andre's suggestion to improve his writing is the right way to go if you are dissatisfied I would think, as you should know by now that if Nick is in here defending Owen, it isn't because your complaints are getting Owen fired any time soon.

And Devin posting in here pretty much saying that everyone should give Owen a chance tells me the same.

Of course it's childish. You've been around this site long enough to know what I know - that main page contributors come and go. Owen is most certainly NOT the worst contributor we have had in the last 12 months. And his writing, while rough and needing work, is better than the writing on the vast majority of competing sites. I look back at CHUD stories from six years ago and cringe, because the writing is so bad and the opinions so stupid. This is a job where you learn as you go, and I'm not going to judge a writer's learning curve based on a few weeks.

Phil hit the nail on the head when he said the alpha monkey acted up and you all fell in line. I've never been so disgusted with the members of the message boards as I am now. It's not bad enough that there's the dogpile, but it's also so unfunny and boring. I never thought I would want you guys to stick with circle jerk threads where you talk about your lame lives, but that's certainly preferable to your shitty anonymous pussy messages on the talkbacks.

As long as we're not being childish then. Go fuck yourself, douchebag.

Who are you?

Strongly disagree.

Like I said before- if CHUD is primed to move up and make a bid for a larger readership, it shouldn't adhere to the same learning curve as before. It hinders the recent improvements.
But I guess that's just me being childish.

Of course you're being childish. I've read the 30 page CHUD bash thread you and your unfunny buddies have at your queer message board. I have zero belief that you offer any criticism out of the goodness of your heart.

Guys, can't we all just agree that we love films and go back to talking about them, rather than yell at each other and blame the downfall of society on Owen? I'd rather another 40 pages of nitpicking the Indy trailer than anymore of this nastiness. Owen is really not the end of the world here at CHUD, people. Let's all remember why we read this site in the first place. Nick, Devin, Russ, Jeremy, and Eileen are all still here, so this much anger is quite unnecessary.

I wouldn't call it goodness so much as a selfish interest in not seeing this place go to shit. Believe it or not I actually like the main site. That's why I'm honest about what I don't like. I wouldn't post at all if I didn't give a shit. And I keep most of my snarky criticism off these boards because I know they would make for a bunch of useless threads.
You keep referencing that bash thread as if we're gossiping about a mutual friend behind his back. But it's all there for anyone to see. It's all based on stuff CHUD puts out there for public consumption. Bitching about a website is no different than bitching about a movie or a book. So don't get your feelings hurt, sweetheart. It's nothing personal.

Owen's fine. This is an Internet film site, not the New York Times. A learning curve's allowed. It's not like he's doing all the heavy lifting. Give him time.

CHUD's short-term health depends on lots of content to generate sufficient ad revenue.

CHUD's long-term health depends on its maintained reputation as an overall high-quality website with consistently superior writing.

Beaks helped both.

I hate the Internet so much.

At the risk of sound wanky, seeing Owen being given a chance, and not only a chance but support, shows me that CHUD is trying to grow. It's trying to cultivate a group of writers that are extensions of the site, that grew from it's culture, rather than someone hired from some random place because they have a seemingly unique voice. I want to one day write for CHUD in some capacity and this makes me think it might be possible.
I know that if no one had ever mentioned anything I would never have noticed Owen's articles as anything offensive. His grammar could use work, he's got to figure out his humor and voice, but.... it isn't shit by any means. I won't lie and say I'll be bookmarking any of his past articles like I would from Beaks or Nick or Devin (he goes in the secret folder that no one knows about) but I still get some info - and that, at the core, is why I come here. Naturally, insightful editorializing and humor is why I stay (and why I'm ignoring my preproduction professor to write this).

I don't want to sound like a sycophant and I don't want to stir shit. I like most everyone on these boards for some reason or another but the negativity as of late is frustrating. To me, the most effective argument against this mud-slinging is the very simple just don't fucking read it. I don't think Owen's often nilla articles bring the quality down any more than the multitude of reviews of DVD's noone cares about (I know why they're done...) or the bankrolling but infinitely infuriating ads. None of these things are going anywhere, but one has the potential to grow into something good. And really, not everyone has to write gold. Often times we just need the fucking cut and dry.

I'm going to go troll around in my Don Zunsick identity to make up for all that lackeying.

EDIT: A whole heck of a lot of shit was posted as I wrote that.

Doug, I'm not offended by your CHUD bash thread. It's fun to see if you guys are still making the same three jokes predicated on internet talk being high-larious. You never let me down. You guys are just a bunch of butt hurt complainers, so whatever - I'm just glad that you took Death Surge away so that we don't have to read how totally drunk and multiple divorced he is in every thread.

The fact is that you unloaded these ludicrous complaints and then you just retreat to whining about Phil. Why not respond to the fact that your complaint about the blogs is pointless? You're arguing to argue. And if you think a guy who writes 2 to 3 stories a day - stories that would likely have been ignored before he came on - is really bringing the site down in any meaningful way... well, I just can't believe anyone would be that stupid, so I can only assume you're being a pain in the ass.

I remember when Devin HATED Owen. I believe he got so mad over his insult to an obese woman, that he berated the college newspaper he worked for. Now that my friends, is recruiting.
I for one, find the articles a touch difficult to read, and often times seem to throw in the word "fuck" to be more edgy, but the latter can be said about the sites best writers as well (well, maybe not Beaks). On the other hand, I usually find myself not interested in the topic at hand to begin with, and end up not reading the articles.
By the by, aren't you guys able to track to ip addresses of talk-backers?

I think of myself as a casual Chewer at best, but this is the only website I rely on for movie/tv/genre news and the only messageboard I post on, and I can't for the life of me figure out how Owen is ruining it for anyone.Stop being so dramatic.

There are established writers for the main page who aren't as adept as Beaks or Devin. Should they be canned? Owen's writing needs work but that's hardly new - I honestly can't understand how there can be so many typos and errors in some of Dellamorte's articles but the info is good and his style is refreshing and often really funny so I roll with it.

I'm not getting anything but raw data from Owen's articles right now but you can give it time either while reading his stuff OR, novel idea ahead, avoiding anything with the helpful byline of "Owen" until further notice.

If the IPs revealed anything interesting (all one person/ people we wouldn't expect, etc.) Devin or Nick probably would have told us already. So I think it's safe to assume the Owen-hating talkbackers are a mix of a few people from the boards and a few strangers piling on the joke and there you go.

You're welcome.

How did I whine? My first and second posts in this thread was a simple question and a criticism. I went out of my way to be diplomatic and not fall into message board hyperbole.
My point about the blogs and layout was that Owen seemed like deadweight brought in to fill up Nick's new design. He's just a part of the problem. Other parts include Wagner's shitty Maxim-lite blog and a busier-than-it-needs-to-be layout. There's so much shit being thrown at my eyes when I visit the main site I'm just turned off. It used to be the first thing I saw was a GOOD article by you. Now it's a headline for Nick's masturbation tips.
I would prefer to see the site concentrate on producing quality content. That's all.

This wins the obscure reference sweepstakes for the week.

What I don't understand is why we need talkbacks at all, isn't that what the main board is for?

Don't point that out, DM. God forbid people actually try to bring article and film discussion back to the boards to counteract all the in-joking that people bitch about.

Remember when the asterisks began really becoming prominent in the articles and it became this kinda funny, "Do the CHUD readers like them or not" thing? Maybe Owen is trying to do the same for the semi-colon.

Just sayin'.

Some of the over-reacting going on here is the most ridiculous Ive seen in my over six years coming here.

Jesus, if you don't like Owens writing, then don't read it, no ones got a gun to your head.

This whole "its bringing down the quality of chud" is just hyperbolic nonsense.

End this thread please.

I find it ironic that the argument about one second-tier writer having poor grammar and incoherent writing is ruining this site when the articulate, coherent hateful posts and talk backs are causing far more cringe worthy reactions.

Constructive criticism is still criticism, just without the vitriol.