Am I the only one who thought Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix was kinda meh

No, you are not.

I kind of agree.

I think OoTP is a solid effort up until the climax in the Dept. of Mysteries - Things start fantastically, but a couple pivotal events happen with little or no emotional weight behind them, really deflating both the finale and the overall resonance of the film.

I still like Order of the Phoenix, but it's a far cry from the best of Potter (Cuaron's Prisoner of Azkaban will likely be the best of the bunch when all is said and done, in my estimation).

OotP was a damn near perfect adaptation of the book because it managed to boil the bloated novel down to the element that mattered most: students realizing they have moral, emotional, and physical strength in numbers, which, without spoiling those who haven't read Deathly Hallows, is an important element to introduce, not to mention, more effective a climax than any wizard battle (not to say Dumbledore vs Voldemort wasn't fucking brilliant).

Liked the movie.
Hated the book.


I thought Chamber of Secrets was a thinly plotted, pointless novel ... but the movie streamlined the story and made it a bit more entertaining. Order of the Phoenix did an even better job, considering it had to dress up a novel that had no plot.

I hated the Order of the Phoenix novel so much that I haven't bothered to read the last two books. But I was never all that keen on the series, anyway. The books were required reading from my wife (in exchange, she had to read some Clive Barker.)

I haven't read the books, but I wasn't a big fan of Order. The characters are interesting and the showdown isn't all too bad, but compared to GOBLET and PRISONER, it's a lot less entertaining. PRISONER had the best story and atmosphere, while GOBLET itself is a great popcorn flick. I'd give

Stone - 6 / 10
Chamber - 6 / 10
Prisoner - 8 / 10
Goblet - 9 / 10
Order - 7 / 10

I'll definitely agree on the Order being the least enjoyable novel in the series. For the first hundred pages or so, the brooding little shit Harry is painted as is a hard character to empathize with. I came to the series after burning through Azkaban and Goblet, having a blast, and then the fifth came out. It was the comedown from two of the best novels in the series, and it did it's job pretty well being a downer (a veil and my favorite character were involved).

The film did a pretty good job, but really dropped the ball in the Dept. of Mysteries. When Sirius goes through the veil, I remember having a "That's it?" reaction. It fell flat, and Oldman deserved a better exit.

I think you felt that was simply because it was Gary Oldman more than anything else. I had thought the same thing and then after rewatching the previous films his exit felt fine. It is abrupt, though that is the point. The intent I feel was for the audience to be forced to accept his death as quickly as Harry Potter himself is.

That said, I've only read Azkaban, Half Blood Prince, and sections of Goblet of Fire (the confrontation with Voldemort) and the Order of the Phoenix (first 100 pages or so). I got got through a good chunk of Deathly Hallows but most of it I found to be very uninteresting (best part for me was when they snuck into the ministry), it seemed to be suffering from the same problems as Order of the Phoenix.

While it is a bit odd for you to read it a little out of order like that, I agree that for the most part, Deathly Hallows suffers from the same problems Order did, though I do love just how quickly the world turns to shit in that one...very scary, that is. Slogging through it is totally worth it for that amazing third act though, believe me.

The OotP novel and the first 200 pages of Deathly Hallows are torture. I felt like I was being waterboarded trying to slog through that tripe. I enjoyed the series a a whole, but Rowling needed someone to edit the hell out of her rambling.

I would say that the only two good Potter novels are the first and the last ... though I did not like some of the ideas in Prisoner of Azkaban. Order of the Phoenix was, IMHO, the worst of the seven.

I haven't liked any of the movies yet, but once again, Phoenix has been the worst. It was excruciating to sit through (though I did like the Voldemort v. Dumbledore duel at the end).

I definitely Gave it the Meh but hey not all of those movies are going to be good as they are condensed from books and if every page is a minute then those movies are really condensed

Oldman's death was abrupt, but Radcliffe did a hell of a job selling it (with a subtle assist from Thewlis).

Regarding the books, the 7th is really amazing in how it leaves no thread untied from its 6 predecessors, and has an awesome climax that should be utterly jaw-dropping on screen.

Oh HELL NO.

Just watched the first five films

I thought about opening a new thread, but found this one and thought I would make some comments. With the sixth movie coming out next week, the wife and I decided to have a Potter marathon...

In retrospect the first two films work much better. All the actors are giving it all they've got, and it's cute to see characters fumbling about when we know how they'll end up later (Hermione first meeting the boys, Neville the oaf, Jenny's bug eyes). Radcliffe is given surprisingly little to do in the first, suffering from what I consider to be the Brandon Routh-in-Superman Returns-syndrome (whether or not they have the potential to be good actors, the director keeps their dialogue on a short leash just in case) but steps up in the next two.

I remember at the time, when I read the book and saw the movie, that CoS felt inconsequential. In retrospect (possible retcon), the introduction of Tom Riddle and his diary is a huge set up for the horcruxes that play such a big part of the last two entries. Nice one Rowling, if you intended it that way. My biggest problem with CoS is Ron is made into a fool, as if there was nothing else to do with him yet. Luckily that is ignored in the next movie.

The third one, as has been mentioned, is a visual spectacular but feels disjointed from the rest of the series. Watching them in order, it's jarring to see Hagrid's house and the whomping willow in completely different locations, but no big deal. It's still jarring that Lupin and Sirius et al aren't mentioned as being the makers of the Marauder's Map (especially when Sirius says something like "the map never lies!" at the end of the movie), although in OotP Harry refers to Sirius as Padfoot seemingly out of nowhere. Having read the books I know, but what about the casual fan of the movie? Meh, minor quibbles.

Fourth one is probably my favorite, although all the teen boys are suddenly long haired hippies. What the fuck is Twilight Boy doing here? Quidditch continues to be forgotten, and that trend continues in the next movie. Funny seeing what kind of screenwriting gymnastics they use to avoid either the Dursleys/Diagon Alley/Hogwart's Express as the movies progress.

Now to the fifth one. Definitely works for me, with Harry's pissed off young boy shtick only lasting for about 45 minutes. Luna is a great new introduction, and although it's nice to see all the secondary characters in the background this is the first time it felt like there were just TOO MANY CHARACTERS. Dumbledore's Army comes across well enough, with Seamus of all people having a mini-arc, but the Order of the Phoenix feels a little rushed. Tonks is drop dead sexy and begs to have more screentime, but who the hell is the African dude? The other lady? Lupin's few bits of dialogue here could be interchangeable with Sirius's. I can understand not every character needing a bunch of exposition, but some are simply floating on good will from the earlier movies.

The best part of OotP is still Umbridge. Evil women, part Margaret Thatcher and George Bush. For the first time the Death Eaters come across as a terrorist cell, and Cornelius Fudge like a fascistic Winston Churchill. Interesting.

More ramblings later if anyone cares to reply.

If anyone cares about the opinion of someone that doesn't really care, and has never read the books, OotP was my second favorite. I hated the first two, loved the third one, thought the fourth one only really worked during the character interactions (which isn't surprising given the director), and got a genuine thrill outta the OotP. It didn't make a whole lot of sense, and even I could tell a lot was deleted from the novel, but it flowed, and had a genuine scary streak.

The score was bland as shit, and not just because it ignored Williams' musical cues for most of the film. Yates uses the same composer for every movie which means that he'll be around for the rest of the series. However, I've heard good things about HBP's score. Personally, I think PRISONER OF AZKABAN's score has some of Williams' best work in the past 20 years.

Oh, and the movie was okay. Third behind POA and GOF.

In order from best to worst:

5
3
2
1
4

Why no love for GOBLET OF FIRE?

My beefs with Goblet: It's the most jerkily episodic of any entry (and that's saying something), has the most needlessly complicated and nonsensical evil plot of any entry (and that's saying something), takes the longest to get things started, and the major action sequences are devoid of any actual danger since it's just a game of Magical Gladiators.

On the flip side, it looks fantastic, all the character stuff works really well, and the ending (where stuff finally happens) is great.

Yeah, the villains' plots were shit, but I like it for the great character moments, Brendan Gleeson, and yeah, the Voldemort shit at the end.

Also:

That's my BOYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

These films all have a great cast, great directors, great art design and effects... yet are fucking awful. The main character is a bland do-gooder, Voldemort is a bland do-badder, the supporting characters, while interesting, are completely one dimensional. All these movies and they're only slightly different from how they were in film one. Snape is legitimately interesting but it's not enough. "Getting a little better at magic" each movie is not a character arc.

Yet I keep going to see them 'cause I'm a masochist and part of the problem. I keep hoping they turn into something worthwhile, all the ingredients are there, but so far... nada.

I think you go see them so you can be the rebellious dude who, like, totally hates that wizarding crap. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

bingo.

for what is ostensibly a kid's story, there is a lot more depth to these characters than "bland do-gooder". i'm sorry but i think greg nailed your criticism pretty squarely.

...but the kids love it.

(Greg have I told you lately that I heart you?)

I'll be honest, I am so completely and utterly taken with the books that it's very hard for me to see the movies as films unto themselves, they're readers digest cliff notes reminding me of bits I love from the novels personally. Sure it's really really good fun seeing some of my favorite characters played by some of my favorite british thesps but they don't really work all that well as their own beasts in my mind (I can't imagine how the story comes across over the films for someone who's never read one of the novels). I just can't divorce myself from Rowlings originals.

The closest I can come is probably Cuarons Prisoner, but I haven't revisited either Goblet or OoP since I saw them in cinemas.

I think I'll be rectifying that with a bit of a 3, 4 and 5 fest before going to see Half Blood Prince. I'll be interested to revisit four and five actually. Goblet never really worked that well as a film for me due to it's incredibly episodic cliff note nature (which is understandable considering the book), but I do have to give Newell full marks for the final twenty minutes. Once Fiennes arrives he really knocks it out of the park. Hell, Fiennes gravitas alone was enough to properly signal just how important Voldemorts return was. That may just be the films most inspired piece of casting next to Oldman, Rickman and Thewliss.

Order I do remember enjoying, but then I may be one of the few people who really liked the book, miserable pissed off Harry and all, I felt it was one of the mosts spot-on looks at being a screwed up teenage boy I've read in years.

Even with my view of the films tho, I still find myself getting pretty fanboy-esque when it comes to the release of the new film. The book is close to my favorite of the series and will finally allow people like Rickman and Gambon to actually do a bit of serious acting as everything turns to shit. The way this film ends it's really going to be the series answer to Empire Strikes Back. I have a gold class movie ticket booked (mini-cinema with recliner chairs and waiters bringing you food and drink on request) and am pretty darn amped.

Wow, that turned into a helluva ramble. Apologies.

HOW DARE YOU! I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I OWN THE LORD OF THE RINGS EXTENDED VERSIONS, YA SON OF A WHORE!

When movies have wizards that are doing something interesting, I'm totally on board. The biggest problem with the Harry Potter movies is Harry Potter himself. Why are the subjects of "chosen one" plot devices always so bland and boring? I wouldn't wanna sit through lunch with the guy let alone crown him Merlin Jesus.

EDIT:

What's so compelling about Mr. Potter? What's interesting enough about him to carry us through this long series? He gets kinda moody halfway through. That's... something.

Only seen the movie once, when it came out on rental. I used to enjoy the Potter films, but I've lost interest. I have the first four films on my list of DVDs to sell.

Perfect. Almost my exact thoughts. Though I still wasn't bored out of my skull, as I was on the first two. If it hadn't been for Cauron I might've given up on the series all together.

And concerning the scores, I was pretty disappointed with Williams' work myself. I remember actively noticing how much more I was enjoying the score on the fourth film. Williams was on my shit list for a while, but his work on Revenge of the Sith was great, and even a bit abstract. Elfman's on my shit list now, he's been putting out boring score after boring score for a while now. Even his work on Golden Army and Milk was pretty run-of-the-mill.

I find everything ...Potter related "meh."

Best to worst

3
4
5
1
2

Every moment worth while for this alone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiyCZtrcsak

Amazing scene. By far the two biggest bad-asses in the world, duking it out.

Phantom Menace has a kick ass fight too. Then there's the rest of the movie.

You guys know these movies are for kids right?

That's not the problem. The problem is they suck -- as do the vast majority of the novels, for that matter. And Order of the Phoenix is the worst of both mediums.

They suck because they're making so much money that no-one cares to put any effort into them. Because not only are the kids lining up for them, but adults are too. God knows why.

Yeah, it's the corporations maaaaan! They control all of our minds! Where's the art?

Jesus, what sad group of jaded grinches.

WHY ARE YOU ALL JOYLESS?! YOU NEED LOVE IN YOUR LIVES!

Hey, I happen to find great joy in being a jaded grinch!

I have zero regard for the Twilight series. Not interested at all, because it seems stupid to me. So I don't watch them, don't read about them, and certainly don't go to internet threads about them and bitch about how they're not good. I don't do this to strike a cool anti-Twilight pose, but rather because I don't care about them and therefore don't care to dwell on them, even when bored. Same goes for other things I don't give a shit about, like Transformers or Supernatural or Doctor Who or whatever. So...why obsess over something you hate? It's not gaining you a thing. And there's plenty of other shit to waste your time online with.

As for Order, it's the weakest book, but the best adaptation, equalling a middle of the road movie. And John Williams contributed one of the most important things of all to this series, the main theme. It's iconic like Star Wars, Raiders, or Superman, and I think plays a role in it's continued success.

One of the weirdest things about the films was the way they replaced my imagined characters as I continued in the series. I believe I saw the first movie around the time I read the 4th book, or so, and gradually, the actors replaced my imagination one by one, until Book Seven, where the final hold outs, Snape and Hagrid, finally turned into Alan Rickman and Robbie Coltrane. I kind of wish that hadn't happened. On the other hand, alot of what I imagined was influenced by the little drawings above the chapters, so maybe it's all moot. But goddamn it, Snape has a goatee.

I remember watching the first HP movie before I read the books, and when I first saw an illustration of Snape with a goatee my little 14-year-old brain was SHOCKED!

GOBLET OF FIRE came at a time when I thought fidelity to the books was the absolute most important thing for the films to have, and it really satisfied that. This may have ruined me for ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, which ended up doing away with some of the little scenes and subplots I had enjoyed in the book. I haven't revisited either in a while (well, I saw a small part of GOBLET, which was enough to remind me how silly David Tennant was in that movie), but I wouldn't be surprised if my opinions of them flipped.

A question for Potter fans with better memory than I: what was up with that little kid in GOBLET OF FIRE? I think he showed up in ORDER OF THE PHOENIX as well. Was he a replacement for Colin Creevey? Did he even have a name?

So in readiness for the sixth film on Thursday night, I've sat down the last few days and watched 3, 4, and 5. it's the first time I've seen those last two since seeing them in theatres. Some thoughts:

Azkaban - still the strongest film for my money. What Cuaron brings to the table visually is immaculate while giving us a lean interpretation of the book that manages to keep almost all the most important themse and moments intact. If watching the Shreiking Shack scene where we have the unbridled treat of seeing Gary Oldman, David Thewliss, Alan Rickman and Tim Spall doesn;t give you a thesp-on then I'd say these movies really aren't for you.

Goblet Of Fire - I have to admit this held up a lot better than I remembered it and, while still episodic had some really well put together moments. The trials were pretty exciting and the opening at the Quidditch World Cup was done really well (even if we didn't get to see any actual quidditch). I only realised for the first time that Bartey Crouch Jnr was David Tennent, the current Dr.Who. So I have to say this film ended up a bit higher in my estimations as the first three quarters were actually much stronger than my memory suggested, and Newell still knocks everything from the arrival of Voldemort to the end completely out of the park.

Phoenix - again, this held up a lot better than I remembered as well (I think my real issue with both four and five was I re-read their respective books just before seeing each film. Won;t make that mistake with 6). People who say this is the weakest of the books don't really see what Rowling was trying to do with it in my opinion (or maybe they do and it just doesn't work for them, I'm not a 'you just didn't get it' guy), but this film skips over a lot of the darkest parts of Harrys psyche and the long time spent at Sirius', two elements I feel are integral to the book but simply wouldn't have worled on film. Imelda Stauntons Dolores Umbridge makes this film in many ways, as Staunton captures the casual beauracratic evil of the woman almost too perfectly. Yates really balances the feeling of her seemingly benign evil inside Hogwarts while real evil grows outside.

All in all these films still only really represent fun reminders of why I love the books so much, but having finished the series they're now really the only way of me getting my Harry jones-on. Again tho, I just don't see how these films could resonate with someone who hasn't read the books, they simply skip too much and are too episodic in nature at this point (understandably so).

Working my way through the films once again as well. Still hold the series as a whole as the ultimate Fuck You to the law of diminishing returns.

Once upon a time, though, I kinda disliked Azkaban, citing it as the best made film in the series, but a clusterfuck in terms of story, with one of my biggest gripes, besides the mangled Shrieking Shack, being the off-kilter ending with Harry's zoom face.

Watching all five films one after another, however, that ending becomes plainer to see as the last truly happy moment of Harry Potter's childhood captured on film. 15 minutes later, in terms of what we see on film, the Quidditch World Cup is burning to the ground.

And thus, Azkaban became BRILLIANT.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Yeah that moment and when he's riding Buckbeak in longshot over the lake are some beautifully pure 'joy of childhood' moments that Cuaron is just so spectularely gifted at being able to portray.

I don't think it can be underestimated just how much he set the tone for the rest of the films with Azkaban either. Newell did very much a 'his take on Cuarons world' and Yates has gone even further in that direction.

Yates may end up getting seen as the best director of the series at this rate, but it was Cuaron that gave it a tonal 180 that turned day into night and signalled that, as Justin points out, the laws of diminishing returns simply don't seem to apply to this series.

Nigel, right? Yeah, I think he is suppose to be a replacement for Colin fawning over Harry in Goblet of Fire. He's in the new film as well. Kid lucked out.

It's especially evident in Half-Blood Prince - there's a shot looking up from Hagrid's, just as night is falling, where the castle is in frame. It's a beautiful composition that reminded me strongly of Sirius and Harry looking at the castle once they've left the Shrieking Shack.

3
4
5
2
1

I know Goblet is very episodic but as a fan of the books, the character interactions make it work for me. I love every scene involving the Yule Ball.

I started on the books after seeing Azkaban, and since then I've generally treated the films as something to be excited for during the build-up to release and then feeling kinda flat about each film afterwards.

Azkaban is my favorite as it was the first one to feel like a film. The others are all ok to watch. I just don't feel excited by them. OotP particularly felt flat, aside from the D vs V duel and Harry internally fighting V's despair. So much stuff to love in all of them, but they don't always come together as a whole for me. I have no idea what I'd think of them had I not read the books.

As someone who watches the movies and has never read any of the books, the third one had the biggest plot confusion for me (fogetting the time travel which is ALWAYS a plot hole). I never got why Harry thought a glowing deer was his dad until a friend told me his dad could transform into a deer. Maybe it was mentioned in the film (or the earlier ones) but it was too subtle for me to pick up on if they did.

Having just watched Order of the Phoenix for the third time (the only one that has made it to three viewings so far; the only one I own), I really can't agree with the 'Meh' sentiment.

I've never read word one of the books.

The first film was kinda ok, but not very interesting outside of setting up the world.

Chamber of Secrets was boring. That's it. I remember virtually nothing about it, apart from it being too long and dull, a bit of a rehash of the first.

Azkaban was gorgeous. I love the way it was shot, the kids start to come into their own and the structure is really nice. It felt tighter and more exciting than anything that had come before. Also, and this cannot be understated, Gary Oldman.

Goblet of Fire was the first I saw in the cinema. I like the dragons and it was the first of the series to have some real heart. But, apart from the final few minutes, it all seemed so inconsequential. On repeat viewing (seen it twice) it didn't really hold up, apart from the once again gorgeous cinematography and the gorgeous Clemence Poesy and the arrival of Voldemort, I wasn't really swept up in it the second time. Also, and this cannot be understated, it marks the arrival of Twilight Boy. It loses a big point for that alone. However, it felt BIG right from the get go, which was what I was looking for in these films.

Then came Order. It was the first of the films that I loved. The main reasons: its political and smart; it has a really hissable central, episodic villain in Umbridge, played to perfection by Imelda Staunton; the return of Oldman; that great opening sequence; the scale is enormous this time, yet also the most personal; Radcliffe finally becomes a leading man worthy of the title; the relationships all become actually interesting rather than pre-destined; Luna Lovegood is a helluva find and I imagine even moreso for anyone who has read the books; but most importanly, the final twenty or so minutes are gob-smackingly, brilliantly perfect, the first time there's been a real display of magic on magic and having it feel actualy, well, magical rather than a nice special effect. In a few well-crafted and choreographed shots, there was more wonder and danger and excitement than the whole final hour of something like Episode III (weird comparison I suppose, but we're talking wonder and fantasy).

Order is the largest and most mature of the films to date, something appealling to a non-fan like me, something that reached out and showed me what all the fuss was about. Why Harry isn't just a boring "chosen one" character, why these wizards are actually interesting and have impact and how magic can be truly magical and not just a trick.

I cannot state how happy I am Yates is staying on for the final films and I cannot wait to see Potter 6 in the next few days.

Oh, no, they completely gloss over that whole thing in the films.

The short version: Lupin's friends find out he's a werewolf, and become Animaguses (Animagi?) to help him cope when he starts to turn.

The other related, glossed over fact: James Potter and his buddies being the creators of the Marauder's Map.

Lupin = Moony (werewolf)
Peter Pettigrew = Wormtail (rat)
Sirius = Padfoot (dog)
James Potter = Prongs (deer)