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Zombi Dawn Of The Dead

post #1 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:16pm
Thread Starter 
I always thought the original "Dawn Of The Dead" was one of those flicks that just missed the mark. There was so much to like in it that it was frustrating because I'd watch it again and again forgetting the suck and assuming it must get better. But damn if it wasn't too hokey.

Now I discover (and probably everyone here is waaaaaay ahead of me on this) the Argento European cut, "Zombi Dawn of The Dead." Man did he ever take out the crap and replace it with the craptastic. I feel like some inner nerd child part of me is complete and can move on having seen this.

Anyone else feel that way or is it sacrilegious to speak ill of the original for the Argento cut?

I'm surprised I've not seen anything written up on it.
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post #2 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:20pm
Next time you're abducted please don't come back.
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post #3 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 
Wow, that's all ya got?
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post #4 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:22pm
Dawn of the Dead is one of the greatest zombie films ever made. What the bloddy hell did you find bad about it?

Quote:
Man did he ever take out the crap and replace it with the craptastic.
This line really confuses me.
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post #5 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:23pm
Thread Starter 
The cheesy "humor."
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post #6 of 38
3/3/08 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.valiens.com View Post
The cheesy "humor."
If you are talking about the guy getting a blood test, I agree.
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post #7 of 38
3/3/08 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.valiens.com View Post
I always thought the original "Dawn Of The Dead" was one of those flicks that just missed the mark. There was so much to like in it that it was frustrating because I'd watch it again and again forgetting the suck and assuming it must get better. But damn if it wasn't too hokey.

Now I discover (and probably everyone here is waaaaaay ahead of me on this) the Argento European cut, "Zombi Dawn of The Dead." Man did he ever take out the crap and replace it with the craptastic. I feel like some inner nerd child part of me is complete and can move on having seen this.

Anyone else feel that way or is it sacrilegious to speak ill of the original for the Argento cut?

I'm surprised I've not seen anything written up on it.
I completely disagree. I don't care for the Argento cut. I don't like how rearraigned and out of place the score is. It removes a lot of good stuff like the helicopter blade sequence. I find the Argento cut to be the weakest of the three versions.
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post #8 of 38
3/3/08 at 8:44pm
Based on the near overwhelming love for this movie on this site, I think you'll have to do a better job of explaining yourself if you want to offer any criticism of this movie and be taken seriously. Honestly, I can't imagine exactly what "cheesy" humor would have taken you out of the film to the point where the qualities of the film are lost on you.
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post #9 of 38
3/3/08 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
I completely disagree. I don't care for the Argento cut. I don't like how rearraigned and out of place the score is. It removes a lot of good stuff like the helicopter blade sequence. I find the Argento cut to be the weakest of the three versions.
I'm not too keen on Argento's cut either. But the one thing I loved about it was, the additional Goblin score.
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post #10 of 38
3/3/08 at 10:51pm
I'm racking my brains trying to recall cheesy humor, and other than maybe the scene w/ the zombies wandering around the mall, w/ the fat guy bouncing off the glass door and falling in the fountain to the awful, bad-muzak-inspired score, I can't think of anything that qualifies. For its time, and it holds up well in this regard, I think, it was one of the bleakest films ever made. Not many laughs come along w/ watching it.
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post #11 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:11pm
You know, cheesy humor, like when the children are killed.
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post #12 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:13pm
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Originally Posted by Vader View Post
You know, cheesy humor, like when the children are killed.
That's not cheesy, that's just plain hilarious.
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post #13 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:13pm
I don't exactly see hilarity in Dawn, either, but I do remember reading in multiple places that one of Argento's main goals was to remove American-style humor from the film.
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post #14 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader View Post
You know, cheesy humor, like when the children are killed.
No, that humor is timeless and never doesn't tear down house.
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post #15 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:29pm
Argento's cut loses all the heart of the original film and reduces it to a bunch of action scenes. The original film's only shortcomming was its tiny budget, so running a film on action alone when you don't have the money to compete with Hollywood features is a bad idea.
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post #16 of 38
3/3/08 at 11:53pm
I've seen and own the American cut, and I've seen the extended cut, but never have seen the Argento cut. I'd love to, just to see what Argento thought the Europeans would like. I need to get the Ultimate Edition.
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post #17 of 38
3/4/08 at 12:12am
I had never seen the Argento cut until I recently got the box set, but I thought it was pretty cool. I wish it looked and sounded as good as the regular version.
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post #18 of 38
3/4/08 at 1:50am
I don't think much good can come from this thread.
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post #19 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:01am
Another weakness of the Argento cut is its reliance on Goblin's score. Yes, Goblin did some great work, but Romero's cut mixes it up with library music. Argento's cut keeps replaying the same Goblin cues over and over and over until they lose their effect.
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post #20 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:14am
There's a bit of camp in DAWN OF THE DEAD. (Pie fight with zombies?) But there's a bit of EVERYTHING in it. It's an epic collision of genres and I love it for that.

I first saw DAWN when I was 13. And I think that was the perfect age to see it. All it needed was titties, and it would have re-defined a generation.
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post #21 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:15am
The only somewhat out of place humor moment was the whole pie fight which I was never a big fan of but I still view the Romero cut as one of my favorite films ever.
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post #22 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
There's a bit of camp in DAWN OF THE DEAD. (Pie fight with zombies?) But there's a bit of EVERYTHING in it. It's an epic collision of genres and I love it for that.

I first saw DAWN when I was 13. And I think that was the perfect age to see it. All it needed was titties, and it would have re-defined a generation.
It's like Romero has said, it's a comic book romp.
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post #23 of 38
3/4/08 at 12:50pm
It has one titty.

Argento's cut plays like an enthusiastic (Goblin) fan edit.
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post #24 of 38
3/4/08 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.valiens.com View Post
I always thought the original "Dawn Of The Dead" was one of those flicks that just missed the mark. There was so much to like in it that it was frustrating because I'd watch it again and again forgetting the suck and assuming it must get better. But damn if it wasn't too hokey.
What the fuck?
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post #25 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
It has one titty.
Fran's doesn't count. Her titty is darkly lit and melancholy.
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post #26 of 38
3/4/08 at 2:48pm
They must have removed the "good taste" part of his brain.
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post #27 of 38
3/4/08 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Argento's cut plays like an enthusiastic (Goblin) fan edit.
I got that vibe too. Way too much Goblin music and not used in the right spots.
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post #28 of 38
3/4/08 at 4:44pm
I prefer the Romero version, with the odd soundtrack and humorous elements. Argento's Goblin edit is more of a straight up action movie and loses a lot of charm in the process
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post #29 of 38
3/4/08 at 5:16pm
I've owned the Ultimate version of Dawn of the Dead for almost 4 years now and have never watched either the extended or Argento cuts. Am I missing out?

Like Litmus, I was 13 when I first saw Dawn. I should have good memories of that first viewing, but I had a horrible case of the flu and the flick made me puke.
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post #30 of 38
3/4/08 at 5:52pm
Banky, the extended "Cannes cut" is amazing. Maybe not as tight as the theatrical cut, but I love that version's apocalyptic scope and its use of library music- gives it that Romero feel. As for the Argento cut- see above. It's basically a more action-centric cut with the Goblin music throughout the whole thing. Some really awkward edits, too.

Argento's cut is easily the least of the 5+ versions of this film that I own.
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post #31 of 38
3/4/08 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankytheHack View Post
I've owned the Ultimate version of Dawn of the Dead for almost 4 years now and have never watched either the extended or Argento cuts. Am I missing out?
The extended cut is real good. It plays out nearly the same as the Romero cut but there is different music in some areas. It includes extra scenes like the standoff between Stephen and a Joe Pilato character (not Rhodes) at the station.

It comes down to how much you enjoy "Dawn". It's one of my favorite films so I really enjoy all the added character moments and such in the "Extended" version but someone who is a casual fan might just stick to the original theatrical version. I find the Argento cut mostly worthless as the awkward use of music really takes me out of it every time.
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post #32 of 38
3/4/08 at 9:04pm
Yeah, the extended cut is the one I've come to remember most fondly. When the pseudo-Rhodes scene is missing it catches me off gaurd.
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post #33 of 38
3/4/08 at 10:22pm
I really like the basement scene in the extended cut more so then the theatrical.
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post #34 of 38
3/5/08 at 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
I really like the basement scene in the extended cut more so then the theatrical.

Agreed. This leads in to one of my small arguments about why the Argento cut is inferior to either of Romero's cuts. When the Officers reach the sealed basement door they bash the door in through the boards that keep the door sealed. In both of Romero's cuts, the zombies INSTANTLY reach through the open door for prey. In Argento's cut, he adds a few seconds of Officer's reactions after the door has been bashed in- then the zombie hands shoot out. It doesn't feel as immediate and horrific as Romero's version, and ruins the pacing of that scene from the very beginning.
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post #35 of 38
3/5/08 at 1:04am
The Extended cut is required viewing for a Dawn fan, but it's not the "definitive" version for me. It's interesting to see, but as essential (and ham-string-ish) as something like the "extended cuts" of Anchorman or 40 Year Old Virgin. Longer doesn't make it better.
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post #36 of 38
3/5/08 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
Yeah, the extended cut is the one I've come to remember most fondly. When the pseudo-Rhodes scene is missing it catches me off gaurd.
I used to have the circa-'99 Anchor Bay DVD of the theatrical cut (the one with this cover) that inexplicably still contained about half the pseudo-Rhodes scene. Peter and Roger show up to meet Steve and Fran, and suddenly the cops are just there. Unless you were familiar with the extended cut it made no sense whatsoever.
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post #37 of 38
3/5/08 at 1:43am
I can honestly go either way with the theatrical or extended cuts. I've only watched Argento's cut twice, with and without the commentary.
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post #38 of 38
3/5/08 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Slade View Post
I used to have the circa-'99 Anchor Bay DVD of the theatrical cut (the one with this cover) that inexplicably still contained about half the pseudo-Rhodes scene.
God damn, that cut aggravated the hell out of me. The Ultimate Edition was the first time the true theatrical cut was released on DVD.

I'm watching the Argento Cut now, thanks to this thread. I'm really curious how this all went down - parts of it are identical to Romero's in terms of a picture cut, but with a different sound mix. Other parts are extended or truncated, but this cut stemmed from Romero's edit.

Some parts really do work - the Swat tenement gunfight scene is pretty effecftive with no score whatsoever. It's kind of destroyed by the scenes of Willie going apeshit to a Goblin rendition of an Action Newsteam theme. Argento is like a too-respectful fan who won't chop the music where the scene demands, just letting it play over everything, including some pretty cool new-to-me tenement siege moments.
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