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Joss Whedon's Dollhouse

post #1 of 1734
Thread Starter 
Casting Notes have been released. I'm sure I speak for all the Whedon nerds here when I say I'm very excited.

http://spoilertv.blogspot.com/2008/0...ting-news.html

Apparently it should start shooting in about six weeks, and will be on in the fall.
post #2 of 1734
They're apparently doing one episode and only one episode before work shuts down because of the SAG strike. As a hardcore Whedon fan, though, I can't get excited for this at all.
post #3 of 1734
Those character names are annoying to me. Then again, Harmony and Gunn and Willow probably looked dumb on paper, too.
post #4 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
As a hardcore Whedon fan, though, I can't get excited for this at all.
You can't get excited about Whedon returning to television? How? Not even a little?
post #5 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post
You can't get excited about Whedon returning to television? How? Not even a little?
I certainly can..

Of course if it is any good I won't get to see it on television in Australia.
post #6 of 1734
I look forward to enjoying only two episodes of this when it plays on Friday nights in July of 2009.
post #7 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post
You can't get excited about Whedon returning to television? How? Not even a little?
Let me restate: I love Whedon. TV is where Whedon belongs, and I'm excited he's coming back. I will be there opening night, or whatever. My point is that the concept just seems so tired, especially for him, that I'm somewhat skeptical. Somewhat. Also, because the last time one of my writing heroes "returned to tv", I got burned and bad. Joss Whedon is not Aaron Sorkin, but you understand my point. I don't want to put my faith in this project and be let down again.

But I guarantee the odds are pretty good that I'll be a convert the first trailer I see.
post #8 of 1734
Thread Starter 
Well guys the first trailer is here!

Youtube here
Quicktime Here

I have to say I'm hugely excited about this. It's going to start in January and will be shown on Mondays after 24.

Edit: Ignore how crappy the font is at the beginning. And also "This is the happiest day of my life" is great.
post #9 of 1734
Looking forward to it.
post #10 of 1734
I'm loking forward to the five episodes that'll air before it's canceled.
post #11 of 1734
post #12 of 1734
What's with the bare feet? Whedon have a foot fetish or something?
post #13 of 1734
Quote:
-You gotta be straight with me.
-Do I? Because you people have been pretty frickin' bendy with me.
Oh, Joss. It's good to have you back.
post #14 of 1734
Quote:
What's with the bare feet? Whedon have a foot fetish or something?
It helps me tell who's a Doll, sets them apart, makes them unique from the others. Not that it's hard to tell... But it's something small and organic, subtle. I like it.
post #15 of 1734
Sounds like a concept that will require some actual acting to make it work. Not sure Dushku can pull it off...
post #16 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Tamoh with a gun can't be beat.

Hell, I'm in. I want to see where JW goes with this.
post #17 of 1734
I love the Whed, but that scene was awfully stilted. However, Eliza's low-cut dress made up for it.

Oh, this has no chance of remotely succeeding, does it? It would be nice to have a weekly dose of Olivia Williams, but I won't get my hopes up.
post #18 of 1734
what the fuck kind of clip was that?

To me, that did absolutely nothing to sell the show, except to show that Dushku is in prime physical form...so yea, ill be tuning in.
post #19 of 1734
Why does there always have to be a clueless audience-surrogate law enforcer, one step behind the main characters, in these kind of shows?
post #20 of 1734
So they can fall in love. And the LEO can sacrifice either his/her life or career for the one they're tracking!
post #21 of 1734
That's some damn fine tv right der now.
post #22 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
The two standing behind Dushku, those are real people? They're not Poser 3D models?
post #23 of 1734
Thread Starter 
I don't really get why people think this will be cancelled immediately. It's not like Joss has a string of failed TV shows behind him, Buffy reached it's conclusion and although Angel was cancelled prematurely it still made it to five seasons. Besides, this sort of sci-fi thing is very in right now.
post #24 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona View Post
I don't really get why people think this will be cancelled immediately.
It's on Fox.

EW article on the show
post #25 of 1734
Before rejoining NBC in May 2004, Reilly served as President of Entertainment for FX, where he developed and launched the cable network's first original drama, The Shield. He also developed and programmed Nip/Tuck and the Denis Leary show Rescue Me for the network.

At NBC, Reilly's vocal support of The Office helped it survive its low-rated first season. He is credited with developing hits such as My Name Is Earl, Heroes, 30 Rock, and Friday Night Lights


So what if it's on Fox, Reilly ain't the old management
post #26 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
However, Eliza's low-cut dress made up for it.

The gravest of all atrocities could be salvaged the same way.
post #27 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
What's with the bare feet? Whedon have a foot fetish or something?

Feels like them going barefoot just adds to the slavery vibe of the concept of Dolls.
post #28 of 1734
Another point I forgot to make.
post #29 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
I like how they credit Acker with Alias and not Angel.
post #30 of 1734
post #31 of 1734
What a beautiful set.
post #32 of 1734
Look's like the show is experiencing more production problems, as production has shut down for two weeks so Whedon can "re-tool" the scripts:

Quote:
A person familiar with the thinking of some Fox executives told TelevisionWeek that there have been concerns raised inside the network about the fundamental underpinnings of the show.

Specifically, because the heroine of the show, played by Eliza Dushku, has no free will or ability to do much beyond what she’s told to do, viewers might find it hard to root for her. In addition, some executives have expressed concerns that early episodes of the series have been confusing and hard to follow.
Sounds like Fox executives up to their old tricks again.
post #33 of 1734
You would think Whedon has earned a bit of clout(or was Buffy WB? I can't remember. Never watched it). And why the fuck is he still working with Fox after Firefly?

All this reminds me too much of the TV Set. Test screenings for television would have killed some of the all-time greats, not saying this will be great, or even good, just saying.
post #34 of 1734
You guys realize this is a completely different regime at Fox TV then the one that fucked Whedon over previously, right? That the guy running the network is the same guy who nurtured "The Office" and "30 Rock" and "Friday Night Lights" and helped develop "The Sopranos," "The Shield," "Rescue Me," and "Nip/Tuck?" You can look at all execs with some skepticism, true, but Kevin Reilly is one of the "good" ones.

This seems like a troubled production, and I can't help but think that Whedon's the guy to blame on this one if it winds up sucking. If it's great, awesome. But the concept was literally written on a napkin, the script I read didn't thrill me, and nothing I've seen has sold me hook line and sinker, either. And I worship at the altar of Joss.
post #35 of 1734
Also, Whedon's history with Fox goes far beyond Firefly. He did a lot of his early script-doctoring on Fox movies, and Buffy was developed at Fox.
post #36 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
You guys realize this is a completely different regime at Fox TV then the one that fucked Whedon over previously, right? That the guy running the network is the same guy who nurtured "The Office" and "30 Rock" and "Friday Night Lights" and helped develop "The Sopranos," "The Shield," "Rescue Me," and "Nip/Tuck?" You can look at all execs with some skepticism, true, but Kevin Reilly is one of the "good" ones.
Then he goes to Fox and brings such great shows as The Wall, Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader, and that lie detector shit. Hardly The Office and 30 Rock. And the new "comedies" on Fox look like shit too.

Everytime something negative comes out I think of this

Except with Whedon. The guy has a proven track record when he is in control.
Can anyone put Whedon in that?
post #37 of 1734
From Whedonesque:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joss Whedon
What happened when the light went out.

Sadly, this is not a naughty post. It's just Joss nattering on again.

I thought it was time to check in with you once again, gentle viewers. Or readers. Or pictures-looker-ats (that might be viewers). Also listeners, sniffers, haberdashers, Olympic hopefuls, the elderly, the youngerdly, and the mighty state of Oregon (go Oregon-based sports franchise!) Welcome all. Welcome... to me.

What's me up to? I'm glad me asked. Me've (I'm not doing that any more) been working on a little show called Dollhouse. Yes, perhaps you've read about how it's blazing an untrammeled path to surefire success, with nary a hitch or a hiccup, just pure blazing blazery, comet-like and meteoresque. What's that, you say? You've read other things? Dark, Yog-Sothothy rumors about shutdowns and delays? Poppycock! They’re true. But I never pass up a chance to say "poppycock". ("Balderdash" is so '07. Let it go.) I know there's been a lot of concern, various fabulous hues of panic alert readiness. So here's the skinny. Some of the names have been changed.

The show was ruined by Flim Flinear. Okay, that's another lie, and you're probably close to giving up on this blog, so here we go. Yes, we've had to make adjustments. Yes, it's been hard and I've been depressing to be around for awhile. Basically, the Network and I had different ideas about what the tone of the show would be. They bought something somewhat different than what I was selling them, which is not that uncommon in this business. Their desires were not surprising: up the stakes, make the episodes more stand-alone, stop talking about relationships and cut to the chase. Oh, and add a chase. That you can cut to. Nothing I hadn't heard before on my other shows (apparently my learning curve has no bendy part) but frustrating as hell given our circumstances - a pilot shot, scripts written, everybody marching together/gainfully employed... and then a shutdown. Glad I was for the breathing room, but it's hardly auspicious. So back into the writer cave I went, wondering why I put up with this when I can make literally dozens of dollars making internet movies. Why I do put up with this is divided into three parts.

One: They're not wrong. Oh, we don't see eye-to-eye on everything, but wanting the first episodes to be exciting and accessible is not exactly Satanic. Being Satan is, but that's in their free time and hey, there's no judging in the Dollhouse. This kind of back and forth has happened on every show I've done, so if you liked those, chances are that was a part of why. And the need to focus on the essentials of what makes this universe tick - and which wire to cut to make it stop - really does bring up our game. So we as a staff have gone from blinking like unhoused moles to delving in with the same relish we had when we started. The show is really coming together now, in a way that I believe excites us and satisfies the Network. Of course, I have no idea if anybody else will like it, but I have the same faith in the staff, the crew and the remarkable cast that I always did. More, in fact. And what's more crucial:

Two: Nothing essential has changed about the universe. The ideas and relationships that intrigued me from the start are all there (though some have shifted, more on that), and the progression of the first thirteen eps has me massively excited. The episode we're shooting now I wrote as fast as anything I have before, not because I had to (although, funny side-note: I had to) but because I couldn't stop the words from coming. Because I can feel the show talking to me; delighting, scaring and occasionally even offending me. It's alive. Alive! Which is a far cry from how I felt a month ago. It's been hilarious trying to keep up with what's in, what's out, who's met whom and when - we've shot all of the first seven episodes out of airing order - but it's come together in a pretty thrilling way. My huge gratitude to our cast for their precision and patience. Which also includes...

Three: Eliza. Watching her on the monitors at two o'clock this morning I was reminded forcibly how much I wished I were in bed – but also how strong, radiant and unmistakable her presence is. She's someone who could coast on talent and never ever does. I love to watch her work. In fact, I think I got myself into this mess for that very reason, and though I have this fall occasionally sworn never to eat lunch with an actor I like again, I’m pretty pleased and crazy proud.

So here's me, slogging away on a show like days of old and not hating life. Again, you guys will be the judge, jury and execu... lawyer, but we do have something to show you. Something, I'm chuffed to say, still pretty damn strange.

As for what's been changed, well, some things I obviously can't tell you. Some I can, for the record: The original pilot was in fact thrown out. Again, at my behest. Once it became clear what paradigm the Network was shooting for, it just didn't fit at all, even after I'd reshot more than half of it (see above re: despair). To get a sense of how completely turned around I was during this process, you should know there was a scene with Eliza and the astonishing Ashley Johnson that I wrote and shot completely differently three different times, with different characters in different places (actually I wrote it closer to eight times), and none of it will ever see air. Which is as it should be (though I'm determined to get Ms. Johnson back in the future). The scene just didn't belong anymore. Similarly, the character of November has fallen out of the mix, because the show simply moves too fast now for me to do what I wanted with her. Season three, anyone...? Happily, Miracle Laurie is still with us in a new role, playing against (and pining for) Tahmoh's character, Paul Ballard. Their chemistry is deeply nifty. The only other major cast shift is that the Dollhouse head of security, Laurence Dominic (played by Reed Diamond), who was written just for the now-defunct first ep, has stuck like fly-paper, and Reed is very much in the family for the present. (Most of my problems seem to involve my actors making themselves indispensable. This is the good problem kind.)

Apart from that, it's all hush-hush: some things I'd intended to hold back are laid out much sooner, and some are rolling out more slowly. We're still heading toward Tim's intense two-part mind-blower - right before a thirteenth ep that may actually just be insane.

And finally, young Steve DeKnight, after writing and shooting an ep so cool it helped not only define the show but save its ass, is ending his consulting duties, the f#%&er. I will be crying on the shoulder of Jane Espenson come Monday, so congratudolences are in order. Excited for the Jane Flava.

And there you have it. I'll be writing more bulletins about "Cabin" and a certain DVD in the very near future, but I wanted to get you all some actual information for a change. I can count on you guys not to tell anyone, right? What's a blog?

Faithfully, -joss.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/17945
post #38 of 1734
I am not optimistic at this point.
post #39 of 1734
Can someone translate that blog post for me? My Whedon-to-English dictionary is not working again.
post #40 of 1734
Basically, Whedon completely threw out the pilot, which he'd already shot something like 40 percent of, and is shooting it again from scratch.
post #41 of 1734
Honestly, that sounds pretty good to me. Having someone to hold back his most out-there impulses, even if that someone is the evil FOX, may prevent the show from becoming Studio 60. Or from becoming as wordy and ridiculous as that blog post.
post #42 of 1734
So, is this become a mid-season replacement?
post #43 of 1734
My problem remains in all that I've read about this show is that nobody seems to know what it's about -- Joss, Eliza, etc. I know I'm the biggest naysayer of this, but I really hope that he threw out the pilot for good reasons. I want this to be good. I don't want to get my nerd heart broken again.

And a clarification: Whedon had already reshot about 40 percent of the pilot. My understanding is that he then threw out the rest and is reshooting that.

And yeah, it's a mid-season show.
post #44 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
Basically, Whedon completely threw out the pilot, which he'd already shot something like 40 percent of, and is shooting it again from scratch.
He already shot another pilot "Ghost". That's the pilot. The new pilot had to introduce the characters to the audience for the first time and so there were some redundancies with the original pilot "Echo". He wanted to salvage as much of the original as he could with reshoots, reworking it into episode 2. Obviously that didn't work out with the new direction they've taken. On a brighter note, Jane Espenson is back in the Whedon fold.
post #45 of 1734
Joss, please start talking with HBO, Showtime, FX or AMC. Thank you.
post #46 of 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post
On a brighter note, Jane Espenson is back in the Whedon fold.
Fantastic news and another reason to be optimistic.
post #47 of 1734
I find it bizarre that the complaint about Echo is that she doesn't have an identity. Isn't the whole premise that she wears different ones, and that she's breaking out of the Dollhouse shell and realizing she has her own sense of self and what not?
post #48 of 1734
Just to clarify, I read the original pilot script and I thought it was fantastic. Unless Whedon completely dropped the ball filming it, I don't think it was discarded for quality. From everything I've read about the new pilot (casting sides, reviews of both the script and the finished episode), it seems Whedon maintained the dark and complex feel of the original pilot but with the action dial turned up a notch. Although I still want to see the original (hopefully on the DVD), I think it's for the best that we didn't end up with a "Frankenstein" second episode. I'm sure some of the ideas will make their way into future episodes.
post #49 of 1734
Whedon has a really hard time starting shows. BUFFY was awful for most of season 1. FIREFLY tried to jump to season 3 in episode 1 (a massive cast with virtually no introduction - in either pilot). ANGEL fared best, but had the least involvement of the three from Whedon himself (and was also weak early in season 1).

It seems that Whedon either needs to find a collaborator to force him to stop preaching to the choir, or he should just stop doing network/studio stuff, and accept that his audience is cable-sized. The 4-5 rating his shows pull would look great to a lot of channels - but none of them is FOX.

I consider these bits of news as very positive. I'd like to see Whedon develop a show and story over multiple seasons (and since ALIAS is gone, I have a slot open for a sexy lady kicking butt as well), but I doubt a show that starts out as "Full Whedon" would last beyond 13 eps. Giving people a simpler story that builds to that kind of massive-cast, densely-woven mythology worked well for BUFFY and ANGEL, and hopefully it can work well for DOLLHOUSE also.
post #50 of 1734
The pilot script was really not fantastic, Woodward.
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