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Joss Whedon's Dollhouse - Page 35

post #1701 of 1734
1/16/10 at 4:24pm
So I guess it's fair to assume Alpha's what causes the Thought-pocalypse in the final episode?
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post #1702 of 1734
1/16/10 at 4:46pm
My guess is that it will be a reveal similar to what happened on Angel. Where Boyd really was one of the good guys trying to innoculate the masses against this new technology and Echo fucked things up for everyone by blowing up the vials of her spinal fluid. From the sound of it, it looks like Alpha is going to be one of the heroes in the future. That's my guess. I suppose we'll all find out soon.
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post #1703 of 1734
1/17/10 at 3:32pm
For a show with a terribly uneven start, it makes me happy that it's going out this strongly. Fantastic episode all around. There's something appealingly scrappy about a show faced with budget cuts still managing to make interesting and exciting television. Boyd as big bad was great in that the resentment towards him was more about personal betrayal, not his evil plan to create a vaccine against imprinting. On that front, the ethics get more complicated. Great dialogue, tight-as-fuck pacing, fun twists, etc. Can't wait to see Epitaph Two.

To the criticism that the Rossum building was still standing after the explosion, some obligatory smoke machine would've been nice, but the grenade only would've really damaged the floor (a sub-basement) on which it was detonated.
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post #1704 of 1734
1/17/10 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
So I guess it's fair to assume Alpha's what causes the Thought-pocalypse in the final episode?
I don't think so. I would assume Rossum kept multiple copies of the remote wiping plans. And if they had security video of Topher explaining how to fix the problem they could easily duplicate it.

Two weeks sucks.
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post #1705 of 1734
1/17/10 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
For a show with a terribly uneven start, it makes me happy that it's going out this strongly. Fantastic episode all around. There's something appealingly scrappy about a show faced with budget cuts still managing to make interesting and exciting television. Boyd as big bad was great in that the resentment towards him was more about personal betrayal, not his evil plan to create a vaccine against imprinting. On that front, the ethics get more complicated. Great dialogue, tight-as-fuck pacing, fun twists, etc. Can't wait to see Epitaph Two.

To the criticism that the Rossum building was still standing after the explosion, some obligatory smoke machine would've been nice, but the grenade only would've really damaged the floor (a sub-basement) on which it was detonated.
It's pretty obvious to me that Echo's "run away from the 'splosion" moment was a last-second add-in, possibly at the behest of Fox execs who wanted more "action" or whatever. It makes no narrative sense (Boyd controlled when the explosion went off, and he was going to do whatever Echo wanted him to, so why wouldn't she give herself enough time to get out?) and it didn't fit with the shots we saw immediately afterwards.

I kinda hope that gets edited out for DVD.

By the way, I realize it's not really relevant at this point, but does anyone know how the ratings were for these last few episodes?
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post #1706 of 1734
1/17/10 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
By the way, I realize it's not really relevant at this point, but does anyone know how the ratings were for these last few episodes?
Last ep was 4th for the night. 2.23 mil first hal hour, 1.94 second.

Comp

Mediun-9 mil
Dateline-7.9 mil
Shark Tank 4.4 mil
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post #1707 of 1734
1/18/10 at 8:05pm
The Amy Acker doll said that the plan was to release the tech, but allow for the worthy to protect themselves, so Boyd was just plain crazy. Not crazy in a good way, he planned to be the one to introduce the inevitable tech and then profit from it with the antidote.

You would have to go back and rewatch the whole thing, but the Boyd as a bad guy thing does seem like a stretch. Principally he aimed to get the pieces into place, but I don't remember him doing much that could be construed as the guiding hand.
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post #1708 of 1734
1/18/10 at 8:24pm
The reason I bring up Alpha is that he's the show's biggest dangling plot thread. And at this point he's the most logical choice for the guy who unleashes the Doll tech on the world (I know there are a lot of potential other explanations, but Alpha's the most inherently satisfying.)

Of course, I suspect there was a bit of a bait-and-switch with the final scene of that episode, and we aren't actually going to get the "Thought-pocalypse" at all.
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post #1709 of 1734
1/18/10 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
Of course, I suspect there was a bit of a bait-and-switch with the final scene of that episode, and we aren't actually going to get the "Thought-pocalypse" at all.
Epitaph One and the previews for next week say otherwise.
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post #1710 of 1734
1/19/10 at 7:05pm
Well, I guess my hopes were in vain that Boyd could have ended up a good guy. I still enjoyed the episode, altho this episode was the first in the last few that really showed how quick it needed to be wrapped up. Up until this one, I thought the rushed aspect was really working for the show. And, like I said I enjoyed this one too. Amy Acker looks good in a suit.

Looking forward to Epitaph 2.
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post #1711 of 1734
1/19/10 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Epitaph One and the previews for next week say otherwise.
But if necessary we can write off Epitaph One as one of the worst-case scenarios from the Attic simulation.
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post #1712 of 1734
1/28/10 at 12:15am
I'm just waiting for E2. Echo to the several comments regarding the high and lows on this show. I'm glad the writers finally ended this the way they wanted.
As it was said earlier, Sierra, Victor and Whiskey are the MVP on this show.
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post #1713 of 1734
1/29/10 at 8:53am
http://bit.ly/adUhre
Lots of characters will return.
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post #1714 of 1734
1/30/10 at 1:22am
I was surprised when the battle appeared over and nobody died. Then Ballard took the head shot after the decoy kneecapping. Should have known better.

OK finale but rushed. Great to see Alpha again. Tudyk need a series of his own.
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post #1715 of 1734
1/30/10 at 3:20am
Over all a good finale but it really needed two hours. It just went way too fast.
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post #1716 of 1734
1/30/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post
Tudyk need a series of his own.
A million times yes. Something lead-character centric -- like HOUSE.

It was a solid finale. I thought DOLLHOUSE was on an amazing run for most of this season, but they didn't really stick the landing. Whedon and Co. tried to do too much with the final three episodes.
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post #1717 of 1734
1/30/10 at 4:59pm
Boy after that ep I can't say im sorry Dollhouse is cancelled. I know they had to rush it but fuck it went so fast I felt almost nothing. The Ballard thing should have been a gut punch but it wasn't. Although I will say Dushku did impress me a bit with her reaction to his death. Also the little moment between Topher and boss lady actually worked as well. Everything else was just kind of jarring and made me not care that much. Im sure alot of the questions I have could be answered by Epitaph 1 but......they didn't air it. It's funny to see them recapping an episode that didn't air that a portion of their audience hasn't seen including me. I didn't think I would have to buy/ rent season one just to lbe up to speed on this episode.

Don't get me wrong it's not that I hate the mad max style future thing, I like it quite a bit. It's just when you move that fast you lose so much.
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post #1718 of 1734
1/30/10 at 6:35pm
not bad. I enjoyed while it was on.. what was the stuff on the wall behind Topher?
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post #1719 of 1734
1/30/10 at 6:43pm
I'm a little confused as to why FOX just didn't air Epitaph 1 and then the season 2 finale. It works pretty well as a recap of season 2's storyline and would have made for a more fulfilling exit for the show. I did like the gag that one of the higher ups constantly abuses the bodies he's in and trades them in when the body gets fat. That was a nice bit of business there.

The episode was okay but they really did try to fit 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag. I'd be curious if there's a slower paced producer's cut as this was way too rushed. Also, way to drop the ball on Ballard's death. It didn't carry quite the impact it should have. This was somewhat remedied by Echo's breakdown a few scenes later though.

I dunno. I think if Joss was given 2 hours to dedicate to the finale, we'd all be calling it a masterpiece. As is, it's just okay.
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post #1720 of 1734
1/30/10 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neaux View Post
not bad. I enjoyed while it was on.. what was the stuff on the wall behind Topher?
Hundreds of photos, kind of like the Battlestar Galactica memorial wall. Fox really should have aired Epitaph One.
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post #1721 of 1734
1/30/10 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
Hundreds of photos, kind of like the Battlestar Galactica memorial wall. Fox really should have aired Epitaph One.
Well one could argue that the ones watching the finale are the hardcore Dollhouse fans but it would have been nice to see E1 and E2 as one piece as they fit together rather well.

Correct me if I'm wrong though but isn't E1 51 minutes? Maybe that's the reason it wasn't aired?
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post #1722 of 1734
1/30/10 at 6:59pm
It's 49, as were all the episodes last year during the "Commercial Free Television" experiment.

Apparently lots of people missed it, because I read a lot of "OMG, this isn't fair!" bitching.
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post #1723 of 1734
1/30/10 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
Apparently lots of people missed it, because I read a lot of "OMG, this isn't fair!" bitching.
Which I tihnk is comeletely fair. I mean at the end of this thing the world is set semi-right again and we are all supposed to feel great but I felt nothing. We lliterally only got 1 episode in mad max land. Im supposed to have huge "thank god it's all over" reaction and it didn't matter because I didn't spend any real time seeing how this bad this world really was. Oh and for some reason zombies are chasing them or something.
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post #1724 of 1734
1/30/10 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
Also, way to drop the ball on Ballard's death. It didn't carry quite the impact it should have. This was somewhat remedied by Echo's breakdown a few scenes later though.
Joss loves to have his Big Important Deaths be sudden and decidedly non-dramatic. See: Anya, Wash.

And, yeah, I thought Eliza was fantastic in that scene. One of her better moments on this series.
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post #1725 of 1734
1/30/10 at 9:01pm
Yeah but even on those terms, the ball was still dropped. With those other deaths, you feel something. With Ballard, it just didn't carry as much weight as it should have. As I said, a few scenes later it was somewhat redeemed but I didn't get that gut punch from the typical Whedon death scene.
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post #1726 of 1734
1/30/10 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
Which I tihnk is comeletely fair. I mean at the end of this thing the world is set semi-right again and we are all supposed to feel great but I felt nothing. We lliterally only got 1 episode in mad max land. Im supposed to have huge "thank god it's all over" reaction and it didn't matter because I didn't spend any real time seeing how this bad this world really was. Oh and for some reason zombies are chasing them or something.
The episode is out there. If you don't want to pay to see it, fair enough. But you're the one who missed the previous episode. I'm not saying it's your fault, as Fox didn't air it, but it's readily available. Therefore, unfair it is not.
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post #1727 of 1734
1/30/10 at 10:06pm
I wonder if one of the reasons they didn't air Epitaph One is that it conflicts with the events of this season. Isn't Boyd in it?

It definitely would have been cool to get a whole season of post-thoughtpocalypse stuff, but it's also a classic case of leaving them wanting more. This way we got a nice, tight little two-part epilogue spread out over two seasons. All the cool shit that was no doubt lurking offscreen is going to be cooler in our minds.
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post #1728 of 1734
1/30/10 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
The episode is out there. If you don't want to pay to see it, fair enough. But you're the one who missed the previous episode. I'm not saying it's your fault, as Fox didn't air it, but it's readily available. Therefore, unfair it is not.
But when your appreciation of the finale hinges on picking up the pieces from an un-aired episode, it does leave alot of people out in the cold. The least FOX could do would be to have it available on Hulu.
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post #1729 of 1734
1/30/10 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
I wonder if one of the reasons they didn't air Epitaph One is that it conflicts with the events of this season. Isn't Boyd in it?

It definitely would have been cool to get a whole season of post-thoughtpocalypse stuff, but it's also a classic case of leaving them wanting more. This way we got a nice, tight little two-part epilogue spread out over two seasons. All the cool shit that was no doubt lurking offscreen is going to be cooler in our minds.

I haven't seen Epitaph 1 in a while but I believe the Boyd-centric stuff is him packing his stuff and going off the grid. Was there other scenes with him in events that happen after he got blown up?

In other words, I think it's pretty consistent with what happened in season 2.
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post #1730 of 1734
1/30/10 at 10:39pm
I watched the second half of this episode before the first half due to a power outage and I've never seen Epitaph One so this entire episode Ballarded me in the head.

Maybe this is Whedon and Fox's final breakup. They are not good for each other.
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post #1731 of 1734
1/31/10 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
Also, way to drop the ball on Ballard's death. It didn't carry quite the impact it should have.
Speaking of that, anyone not touched at all by Echo putting Ballard in her head forever? Im supposed to think it's sweet but it really came off creepy and weird. As a matter of fact wouldn't that be kind of hell for her? Also hell for her new boyfriend im sure.
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post #1732 of 1734
1/31/10 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felt Pelt View Post
I watched the second half of this episode before the first half due to a power outage and I've never seen Epitaph One so this entire episode Ballarded me in the head.

Maybe this is Whedon and Fox's final breakup. They are not good for each other.
I thought I read on AICN that Whedon may do some work for FX? If that's true, then it's the best news I've heard in a while. Whedon could certainly do alot worse than cable.

As for FOX, I can't see how they are the bad guys. I mean they gave a low rated show another season to find an audience and it didn't and we got a pretty proper send off for the show.
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post #1733 of 1734
1/31/10 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
I wonder if one of the reasons they didn't air Epitaph One is that it conflicts with the events of this season. Isn't Boyd in it?
Boyd's only scene in Epitaph One is the bit with him leaving post-gunshot and Saunders saying "I wish we had more time." They stuck it in Getting Closer.
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post #1734 of 1734
1/31/10 at 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
As for FOX, I can't see how they are the bad guys. I mean they gave a low rated show another season to find an audience and it didn't and we got a pretty proper send off for the show.
I'm not saying they didn't have good times together.

If he goes to FX it will still be FOX, so I guess that's a flaw in my hate. They're much less likely to mess with his storylines, so it does sound like a good fit. Googling seems to indicate there's nothing definite at this point.
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