College Dropouts

A highschool drop out thread would be better.

...

Maybe he's going back to elementary school.

Your story sad to tell,
A teenage ne'er-do-well,
Most mixed up non-delinquent on the block.
Your future's so unclear now,
What's left of your career now?
Can't even get a trade in on your smile!
La! La la la! La la la! La la laaaa!

Oh, hon, this isn't a good reason to jump ship. About 75% of college is paying to hear things you already know/could have read about on your own. My Master's was about 95% that, actually. As lame as it may seem at times, unless you're planning on learning a trade, going to school is all about having the degree at the end. It doesn't matter what it's in, or where it's from, employers generally want to see that BA/BS on your resume.

This is true. It often seems employers just want to have some proof that you have some amount of dedication and can probably be taught what you need to know once you get on the job.

Seriously, leaving because you know most of it, not a good reason. Not that my reasons were any better, but that's a really poor point. I never got to do a real "full time" schedule at college, because I was always working insane hours to pay for school. I finally left shy of getting my minor completed (I did eventually finish my English degree online), and I kind of regret it.

I quit school because I knew I had a solid career path ahead of me. I had already run my own business, and had plenty of contacts, and the farthest I want to go doesn't require a degree... but in my line of work a degree doesn't mean much anyways. It's all who you know, and how hard you work. Plus the money at the position I started in is ridiculous, and a college kid wouldn't have made near what I do, again because of my previous experience.

So should you drop out? Not unless you know you've got a job waiting tomorrow that pays $50k + a year, plenty of opportunity to move up and advance, and the company is going to be loyal to you through thick and thin.

If not, keep your ass in school. Or move to Houston, make $20/hr working in chemical plants. About the only way you'll make the money you would other wise. And get some life insurance, because you'll be in some terrible conditions.

The world needs ditch diggers too.

That's it, absolutely. Employers want to see that you can finish. I'd recommend that you finish.

My brother didn't go to college at all, and he's made himself a successful career ... but it's blue collar and hard labor.

I happen to be out in the job search mode at the moment, and I'm finding places that wouldn't even sit down with me if I didn't have the degree.

No, you're paying the college money to get that little diploma, not to actively learn. From discussions with friends and co-workers, nobody ever learned anything new until the final semester or two of school, and even then it was a "huh, that's cool" type thing, not a mind blowing revelation.

Unless you're going to be a doctor or lawyer, you're not learning something new everyday. Besides, if you know it all, it should be easier, right?

God, if I had a dollar for every time my mother said that to me when I whined about getting up for school in the morning, I wouldn't be in the hole for my B.A.

Like Blofeld, I'm on the job hunt, too. I've got 7 years of post-secondary education (Big Ten school, Phi Beta Kappa, graduated with distinction, all that rot). I've been out of school for three months, and I only finally landed my first interview last week. Not. Fun.

If you are greatly interested in your current major, research for some schools that have highly recognized program. Then transfer, if that is a possible option. Hopefully the generally more challenging curriculum will give you what you were hoing for. Maybe there is another subject your more interested in, and can switch majors. I know I did 3 times before graduating from undergrad.

Or be like me and just keep adding minors.

Jesus, I shuld have. There are so many hours of classes beyond the required amount on my transcript that have zero to do with my degree.

Not trying to preach to you Dean, trying to tell you, unless you have something career wise lined up, stay in school. If not, you're probably going to end up doing either a job you hate, or hard blue collar work.

What is your major? You mentioned working with film. If your major IS film, then you need to look into transferring to a school with a good film program. You can't go anywhere to get a film degree like you can a business or English degree.

Or start pounding the pavement to raise funds for a movie.

Anyways, what happens when you don't stay in school. Work your ass off for years somewhere you hate until you finally get a half decent job making half what the next guy does.

And I totally hear you about going to a place you really can learn, it's why mycollege credits ended up coming from four different schools

My degree in English/Comparative Religious Studies? I'm working in a mall for minimum wage. But oh! Come Monday, I become 'Lead Sales' for a 10% wage hike!

There are no guarantees, no matter what you decide to do.

History/Philosphy, I work at a hotel and Pier 1. Time well spent.

Edit to say: I had a 3.9. Employers are not impressed.

I think you've made the right decision. You've cut your losses. You've set no expectations. Now you can do whatever the hell you want. You can become a drifter, get in adventures.

I prefer Baldwin's take from The Departed: World always needs more bartenders!

...walk the earth...

A few months ago I was thinking about giving up altogether Dean. But the biggest thing from people on the other side that I kept hearing was essentially this: after high school you go to college to get a degree and after college you go back to school to learn something.

By the way, I'm about two discs into the third season of Battlestar. Your work in it is amazing.

I dropped out of school in December. Before the end of my first semester, Freshman Year. Film School. Had nervous breakdown. Live at home in parent's basement, will probably live there longer than what is healthy. No real plans or direction, no real ambition or long-term goals.

But I got rhythm, I got music, and I got my girl. So I suppose I couldn't ask for too much more.

If you'll be that miserable, then cut your losses, invest in shit tons of books on film. Just hit up Amazon and order away. Then get a shit job, buy all the film equipment possible, and start teaching yourself.

My friend lives in Philly, and couldn't find a decent school for film, and has no money to speak of. He finally decide this was his final semester, he would cut his losses, save his money, read all he can, write his ass off, and try to make it in Austin somewhere.

Or ask Ziggy.

(upon being trapped in the basement, after suddenly breaking up with his girlfriend, going deaf and losing both his feet)



"But... it's not fair!"

My experience (physics, math, comp sci & engineering) was:

• 1st year was to get everybody up to roughly the same level.
• 2nd year was to weed out the undedicated/untalented.
• 3rd year was the real intro to the stuff.
• 4th year was a taste of what research/grad would be like (and the areas the profs were interested in).

Keep in mind that I was majoring in each of those areas so the above pattern was applied by the faculty from a "professional" POV, i.e., you're basically finding out if you want to do this as the sole/major part of your academic life. Majoring also meant that I had access to the more "serious" versions of the courses as well.

So, by 3rd year, you've been worn down by all the hoop jumping and then (finally) they stop "lying" to you (as my old chem prof would say) and the real insights start to come along, e.g., quantum mechanics, complex analysis, algorithms and computability.

What I found out, after finally settling on something like a "career", is that the insights, discipline and techniques I learned toughing it through to 3rd year and after in these areas greatly expanded my ability to adapt and learn new things in a wide variety of areas, e.g., GIS, accounting/finance, and even management.

I have to agree that the first two years of college (and is that where you're at right now, may I guess?) are the biggest grind. That's when you're taking all of your required courses - those three credits of biology, for example, that you have to have to graduate, and you're a film student. I see where you'd get disillusioned. But you will learn more those last two years, and you are going to appreciate it having stayed.

Plus, alot of jobs that aren't even that great won't take you if you don't have at least a four year degree. Here in NY? Forget it - you'd better have at least four years under your belt, or they won't even consider you for a receptionist position. And if you don't have that degree, it's even tougher. And not just in NY, I'd imagine anywhere.

Well if film is what you're interested in (directing? cinematography? sound?), I suggest you hook up an assisting job. Some people start off as runners and try work their way up while teaching themselves.

I'm not sure how it works in America, but I did go to film school down here and for the most part it was a waste of time - except that it kind of forced us to complete projects that we might not have had the initiative to go through with otherwise. And in the end it all comes down to a showreel - the most important thing that a film school helps you develop (even though a degree from a respected film school doesn't hurt). So you're going to have to be a lot more determined than the average person.

Good luck.

I was a music ed major who dropped out due to insufficient fund my junior year (of a 5 year degree). In my quest to fund the rest of my education, I got into sales, and through the years, that's led me from telemarketer (sucked), to sales manager (eh,still sucked), to loan officer (insane money, hours and stress sucked), to management of a small firm (sweet job, great money doing easy work, until the market folded), to now an executive recruiter. I make a nice salary plus pretty generous commissions (rare to find both). So, I'm making good money, and I still play music on the side.

Here's the rub though, I have to sell my ass off, and have had to for 7 out of 9 years since I had to drop out. If you have a hidden talent (and the intestinal fortitude to deal with rejection) for sales, you might do ok. On the other hand, the irony of my job is telling people how difficult it is for me to place them with companies if they're not degreed.

Repeating the general consensus, and based on my own experience, the first two years of college are were you pay your "dues" academically. Required courses, teachers locked into a particular mindset, slack-off students, etc. are par for the course (BTW, why give a shit if the rest of your class isn't as interested as you are in what's being taught? Fuck 'em! If your teacher is close-minded, FINE! Use him! Suck out as much knowledge and experience as you can from him, then do your OWN thing. Learn from his mistakes!).

When you hit your third and fourth year, you're through the worst of it, and you can take classes that interest you, take free electives or self-study courses in film (ask your student advisor about this - you basically teach yourself, and get the required credits, which leads to that degree).

If you're concerned about money, take a year off - bust your ass and start saving your cash. Put yourself on a budget, and during your time off, study, study, study. Then when you've got enough saved, start looking into transferring to another school, etc.

But, since you're looking for college dropout stories - my brother went to Trenton State and dropped out same as Patrick (he lasted about a semester). He literally didn't know what he wanted to do for a major (he toyed with being an Art major like me), he hated his roommates, etc. College wasn't for him. So, he decided that since he liked working with his hands and working with tiny items, he'd try out as an apprentice locksmith. He did that for a couple of years until the company he worked for went belly up.

However, he noticed that while fixing locks and cutting keys, he actually liked working with small items and fine tools (his best memories were of hanging out with our grandfather and fucking around with his tools in Gramps' workroom - Grandpa was an electrician). So, he decided to explore jewelry. He apprenticed at a jewelers in Brick, and thanks to that job went to GIA for classes. Eventually GIA placed him at his present job near Los Angeles, where he met his wife. More classes followed, and now he's an appraiser and doing pretty good for himself.

In my own case, I did my four years at Monmouth College (now University), got my BA in Art, went to the Joe Kubert School to chase my dream of being a comic book artist (I wanted to be the next big Spider-Man artist) and...

Burn out. After one semester. Four years of college straight, with four years of summer jobs, and apart from a Spring Break vacation, no breaks or time off, led to one massive case of artistic burnout. I went back to my last summer job (working for an a weekly advertising magazine) and stayed for 8 years. Couple of jobs after that in advertising and five years as a holographer (which I never ever dreamed of becoming), and now I'm finally an art director.

The comic artist dream? I suppose I could've pursued it, but the comic market just happened to hit the early '90s crash, and it didn't look too secure a career (the holography company I worked for produced many of the holograms for those variant covers that helped cause the industry crash. Oh, irony!). So, I altered my dream a bit. It happens - it's called real life.

Dean, both stories show that anything could happen. While I have to join the chorus here and say "stay in school. Get the degree", you do have options. College bugging you? Take a break! Transfer to another school! Need money? Get your ass on a budget, work a couple of jobs during your time off. Study on your own. You have to seriously sit down, go over what you really want to do with yourself and do what it takes to make that dream come true. Just don't be surprised if things take a different path than you intended.

I still draw a pretty mean Spidey, by the by.

Get yourself a bottle of whiskey and your fine.

School's not for everyone. But if you ever change your mind with what you want to do, you'll probably need some credentials.

Generally, if you're interested in the creative arts, do them. That's the secret. You want to write? Read and write. You want to do film? Watch films and learn the technical aspects. You want to paint? View art and paint. It'll take loads of time, but in the end you'll be a better artist if you just start doing it rather than learning it. Of course, that's not for everyone either, and many times you'll need instruction to get over your humps (you know, your lovely lady lumps).

Bear in mind, the above approach dooms you to low-paying jobs, frustration, and poverty, until you figure out how to make money at what you love doing. Which may be never. But that's the discipline.

I dropped out of college and got a good job -- after I got a technical credential. Then I hit a wall. Employers want to see a BS/BA on your resume. It separates the wheat from the chaff fairly easily. Once I figured that out, I went to school part-time, did the university of Phoenix thing while I worked, and now I am a licensed attorney getting my legal masters in tax law at Boston University. This May I hope to have a stellar job in tax law, and after that, I'll waste all my money on Asian hookers and blow. But that's me -- I'm a dreamer.

I got kicked out of college in my second semester after getting a cumulative 0.0 GPA. Never went back.

As a film major getting ready to graduate in May(with a minor in screenwriting), I understand where you're coming from Dean.

The problem with film school is that you really need to go to a semi-decent place that knows what the fuck they're doing and has a good program. Is you're serious about filmmaking, a community college is probably not going to cut it.

True story; I have a friend who wants to make films, but at his college, the only thing even close to film offered is visual arts and studies major, which he's enrolled in. So he rents out two grand worth of equipment, just to fuck around with and make some short experimental films.

So I grab the camera and white balance it, and he looks at me and goes, "How'd you do that?" I pretty sure I was taught how to white balance a camera 5 minutes into my freshman year of college. It would be the equivilant of buying a Ferrari and not knowing how to drive stick.

So, rambling aside, buying books and teaching yourself how to make movies on your own may seem like a good idea, but you need to get the collaberative experience of working with others in order to get a feel for the real deal of filmmaking, IMHO.

What exactly do you want to do in film, Dean?

I'm pursuing my degree in literature and English, and there was a point in time where I entertained the thought of leaving, but it was the best decision I ever made to stay in college. There are too many people that I've spoken to that have left school early, or dropped out, and even though they are successful either monetarily or they're where they want to be in life, they all express having regrets about not getting a degree.

All I can add:

College is for socializing, getting laid, and doing the shit you can't do working a 9-5. Don't worry about learning anything in class; academia is a tired, broken-down system of knowledge bureaucrats and wankers — on the upside, use the paid-for library to teach yourself about interesting things. Getting mediocre grades and sticking it out for the piece of paper is recomended — all the more easier if it's crap you already know. Focus on the big picture liberal arts shit: how to argue, how to write clearly, reasearching, BS detection, linking ideas. That way, when you graduate into an entirely unrelated career, you have some skills to transfer.

That said, a plumber can earn upwards of six figures with his gas ticket, in a work environment entirely devoid of bourgoise pretensions. And, speaking from personal experience, don't be a carpenter if you like money, not working hard, and avoiding injury.

Unless you're an Ivy League graduate or going to some ridiculous position in an already established blue chip company, your GPA doesn't matter one iota. Just get the piece of paper saying that you finished, because in this day and age a college degree is the standard, and if you don't have one you're more or less installing a glass ceiling.

Don't dropout. DON'T.

Come shadow me around for a few days and you'll see why it's a bad idea.

True, but have you seen what plumbers do? They put their hands in really icky places.

I'm so glad I didn't finish college.

My BFA in Theater has made all the difference.

...as if a degree guarantees you THAT.

Not at all, but more often than not the lack of a degree guarantees not getting that. It's all just a crap shoot anyways. How hard you work depends on how successful you are. If you don't want to work extremely hard, and coast a bit more, a degree can help a lot to that end.

Stay in school. If you're in a lame program, trade up to something or someplace better. If your grades aren't good enough to do that, suck it up. As we spin deeper into a recession, this is not the time to be trying out your luck at being a self-made man. Sure, you'll hear success stories from people who made good without their degree. But there are a hell of a lot more people flipping burgers and changing oil who can't tell you their story because they can't afford a computer.

If you're really determined to quit, you'd better have something lined up. Why not go see the Air Force or Navy recruiter? Maybe you can get into a media job with them--they have all kinds of specialties related to video production and broadcasting. At least you won't be getting shot and you can qualify for college money and save up some money too.

I don't want to sound like Miss Zooey's mom, but you might as well practice sticking with things. Because college is a skate compared to working day in and day out in a shitty job. And maybe if you put a little more into school, you'd get a little more out of it. It could be that you're already in a place where you can see that your dreams of a career in the film industry aren't materializing. That sucks. But, like somebody said, that's reality. If you hang in there, it's hard to imagine that something won't turn up that's better than the $5.15 (with the possibility of tips) that awaits you otherwise.

I'm not going to dismiss the intrinsic value of the college experience, but I would say I hew more towards the Adam Warren experience - expecting college to be any sort of professional springboard is more or less fallacy. Unless you get asked to join Skull and Bones while at Yale.