So, You Wanna Work In Movies

Your suggestion about going down to the local IATSE office in the "College Dropouts" thread is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that, from college to now. Seriously.

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

He forgot to mention film accountants have the best hours of probably anyone in a film. Come in about 9-9:30 and leave about 6-7. Yeah, my ass is in the office at 6:15 am (call isn't even until 7:30 for us right now), and I didn't leave until 8. Accounting had been out for 2 hours already. Fuckers. But ya gotta be nice to them cause they control the money.

I would add something to those who call the production office though. Don't. Fucking bring your resume in. As soon as you find out where a film is, get your ass into the office and drop off your resume. And yeah, the office can be boring, but I know lots of office PA's who have moved on to other departments, because as an office PA you get to know every department head. But you walk into my office, you better have three things: a working car, a working laptop, and a cell phone with a lot of freaking minutes on it.

Alright off to sleep. It is a precious commodity to me right now. And this is an easy gig. I am going to be ruined on the next movie I get where the director take forever and doesn't call wrap early everyday.

Sorry if I came off venting. I have had two shows in a row where I had to deal with crappy PA's. Kind of get irritated after awhile of kids coming in thinking they should be treated like little darlings when there is bloody work to do.

Really though, this is the coolest business to work in.

Very good read.

Thanks for the link.

Then you've probably also been working with shitty 2nd ADs and production coordinators.

The article is good as it breaks down a lot of the departments for people who don't know their ass from a cuculoris.

But the bottom line is either volunteer as a PA or go through your local film office to get a job in some department on an under budget indie. Then show up on time, stay late, don't complain and only open your mouth to make a decent joke or ask a question when you truly can't puzzle out some part of your job. Voila: you have a career in film.

Never had an interest in making movies, more of an interest in how they are done and all that entails. I enjoy the process more than I would probably enjoy being a part of the process.

However, at one time in college I was really gunning for that job at DreamWorks.

A question on applying to productions: is it kosher to submit your resume and cover letter more than once? And if so, how frequently? I've been applying to productions in Houston and Austin for three months now and other than the various odd job haven't had any luck.

Took me awhile to get my first gig in Austin. And when I did, the first one was a no-pay set PA gig where I got to watch a couple of guys blow their money. From there I got a pay gig on Man of the House.

Of course when I moved back to New Orleans, I had to take a low paying gig as a PA on an indie kids film. But after Katrina, they made me coordinator for the last month of shooting/wrap. After that people locally got to know me and now I get calls for jobs rather than have to actively seek them out. My favorite was the end of last year when two studio shows called me at the same time to work for them.

As for applying, only apply to individual departments once. And if you want to be in Art Dept or Camera or Etc, find out the department head or their 2nd and get your resume right to them.

As for shitty PA's. Yeah, I wasn't the one who hired them the last two shows. The problem we are having here is so much production is going on, even PA's can pick and choose. After this one PA left this show, I got asked if I knew any PA's and the problem is they are all working.

Greg, just keep applying. If you can, find where those offices are and get your face in there. And even if they say they don't have an opening right now, leave your resume since you never know when they might need a day player. If you really want it, keep hustling it and trust me you will get something even if it sucks some for the first time.

My first two jobs, one paid one unpaid, were two music videos for a ska band and the other was for some rappers and DJ.

The indie ska band had a video ten times better, production wise, than the rappers who flaunt their expensive lifestyles.

I thought that was always hilarious.

This thread gives me good ideas for what I should be doing over the next 8 months before I can apply for the film program at SAIT.. again.

Sleezy. Hope people are recompensed (though I doubt it). Sleezy business.

How is it "sleezy" to ask for people to have those things? And I really dont understand the idea of needing work to pay you back for having what you need to do your job. Eventually you get a box rental as you move up.

But yes, you need those three things to do your job as a PA.

You gotta pay your dues.

Applicants need to supply a cell phone, a car and a laptop? For a bottom of the rung position? Nothing personal of course, but these are big productions right? I really don't get it (and I doubt I want to).

If you're just starting out odds are you won't be working on big productions. You gotta hit the minors first, champ.

I sort of ditched the production world for the more office based development one but what I've heard is that working on big productions can be very long and very boring. It's the smaller ones where you'll learn the most.

Construction is the best example. John Rogers described filmmaking as building a house while throwing a party in the middle of it. So yes, you have to show up with your "tools" or else you can't work.

And sorry, but really you have no idea of how filmmaking works if you think all shows are big budgets. I have worked on everything from a $175 million film to a 1 million dollar kids flick. And you need these things since you are going to be mobile. I haven't been in the same building for the last three shows. You want to work on set? well guess what, you are gonna be going from location to location. And if you are a PA, you are constantly going to be on the go doing runs.

Sure, not all films have big budgets, but it seems odd to me if the larger productions are functioning the same as the smaller ones (I saw you post once about working on the new Brad Pitt studio film, for instance). The construction worker analogies help somewhat, but it does bother me.
And I also wholly admit I'm not a professional filmmaker like you guys, but I do find this stuff interesting. Sorry for trying to put a label on something I'm not that informed about, just a gut reaction.

No matter the budget of the film, the money that exists to outfit PAs is non-existent.

The only departments I have ever seen even have computer equipment bought for them are accounting and editorial. And this has only been on studio films. Accounting computers usually come straight from the studio.

And I am sorry, but calling it sleezy is insulting to me and others who work in the film business. I have worked in other professions. This is the only business I have worked in where more than one boss has told me to go home to my wife and kid. After Katrina, the first thing everyone asked me from out of town when they came back to finish the film we were on was if my family was ok and our house and if we needed anything.

As for having to pay for your own stuff, you should see what my wife has to buy before the start of every school year. She spends way more than I do in a given year on her job than I do on mine or any PA does on their gig.

But here is my cool thing for this show, my name is going to be on the race cars we have. Who knows if it will show up in the final film, but it is still pretty cool knowing my name is on a race car sticker. Apparently I am a gasoline company.

Okay, I guess it's best to leave it at that.

Sorry to cause grief. Stupid of me. Glad that your work has treated you well in the past. Education is whole other world beyond this thread, so your wife has my sympathies and congratulations.

Some questions:

1. What's the standard amount of experience required for the various levels?
2. What are the chances of sliding into the film industry from another? Like say, video game development?
3. Is it possible to support a family in one of the entry level positions, at the current average salaries?

I wouldn't say its possible to support a family on a PA salary. I made it only because my wife was working as well, but we still have had some lean times. But as you rise it gets to be like other jobs where you salary gets better. Only thing is you have to watch your spending and remember to save some for those times when you might be between gigs for 2 - 4 weeks which happens sometimes.

As far as sliding over, I think it would depend on which dept you are trying to go into. Same goes for experience. You want to work on set or production office, well previous experience doesn't really matter to anyone. Its a learn on the job type thing. Now you want to go into one of the more technical fields such as editing or post work, that would be a better question for Ryan to answer than me.

Thanks for the perspective. It feels like I've had lean times my whole life.

Forget about sick days as well.

Jesus it sucks to work with allergies. It is all I can do to just not crawl into the stunts office and go to sleep on their nice big leather couch.

Remember kids, try to wait and get sick when between shows, not during.

Of course I am also sitting here in a Hawiaan shirt and flip flops since it is Jimmy Buffet Day today for us. And I ams till pretty dressed up for work.

And no drug tests ever. Amen.

Your crew will help you get drugs.

Wrong on the drug tests. Teamsters have to take drug tests.

But yeah, go hit the grip truck for pot; AD's for stay awakes (aderol (sp?), ritalin, speed); stunts for pain killers.

This is actually the 2nd show in a row I have had where we don't drink in the office regularly. Scary. I don't like this trend.

Ryan, I am in the office AND I CAN'T HAVE ANY FUCKING BOOZE!!!! It is insane. I just go home and enjoy my beer or bourbon or finish off the wine if the women had some with dinner. I keep threatening to gt a bottle of bourbon and put it in my desk. Have a drink before I leave and see who freaks out.

Perk for this show, my name on the race cars. Just a small sticker. Some say Casey Moore. Some say Casey Moore Gasoline. Shell type colors. Who knows if it will show up on screen, but cool to know my name will be on the race cars.

What he said.

I started out in a tape room; logging, dubbing, labeling, etc for a couple years before moving up. got paid dirt. It's grueling work, especially since you're at the bottom of the pile and are asked to do all the tedious busywork. But, it was a great way for me to learn the machine room, the decks, telecine machines, scanners, editing systems. I wouldn't trade those first two years for anything. It was an excellent way to learn and it gives me an edge when I talk to engineers and work in different facilities.

As for wages? Let's just say I lived with 3 other guys in the same boat I was. It was scrape-by city, but we had a great time and kept our spirits high.

I know Ryan mentioned this, but it bears repeating; be prepared for shitty hours. Even though I have a great job now and the pay is good, I'm working overnights, which puts a significant dent in the social schedule.

Being the primary provider for my family, I'll just have to break into film another way methinks.

I'm no stranger to long and hard hours (working 60 hour weeks past couple of months), but I'm paid for my OT.

Sure would be nice if my 5+ years in the video game industry (3 and a 1/2 as an Assistant Producer) translated to time served.

Well, I'm currently doing the "shit pay but great networking" route. I've been in Austin two and a half weeks now and have PA'd two gigs and interviewed one more. Already that has turned into freelancing editing on one project, scoring second PA gig later this month, and getting a whole bunch of billable hours logging & capturing tapes. None of these pay great, but it's a snowball effect I hope continues.

Right now the best advice I can give is apply often and apply anywhere. I'm editing right now, next week I'm handing out water to people and hauling gear, the week after that I'm editing again, and after that I might be building sets. Jack-of-all-trades'ing it is a good way to go, it seems.

Yeah, that kind of tactic kept me employed with developers while I was freelance. Hired to do animation clean-up and coloring, learned sprite generation and audio editing on the job, and stayed to do storyboards, writing, art direction, mo-cap acting, and cutscene directing. I was in the right place at the right time to take over a full-time production position when it opened at the smaller developer I was at.

Now that I'm at a bigger company though, production means more managerial and less hands on. I feel incredibly under-utilized (despite being over-worked).

Yeah, I am wrapping either the 13th or the 20th; and things are looking fucking bleak after that. Not sure what I am going to do if some indie film doesn't crop up (doesn't look like I am going to make it on to Bad Lieutenant which is what I really, really wanted to go to next).

I am hoping and praying that SAG signs a deal soon and that once again opens the floodgates. Otherwise my ass is going to have to find something to do in the interim. Although, I keep getting asked by the Cali folks why I don't live and work in L.A. which I think is a good sign. I Just have no desire to move there.

Greg, what shows have you worked on in Austin?

Well, went and got my Set Etiquette and Protocol card at a course the other weekend, am taking a Production Assistant workshop this Saturday. Two small steps foward, but I don't know how I'm going to manage the giant leap backwards of leaving a full-time job thats paying the (numerous) bills while crossing my fingers that I can find some sparse, part-time gigs to work on. I've always been a fan of security but I guess theres no such thing in this industry, just a bit intimidating trying to get a foot in the door, especially when the industry here isn't exactly Hollywood North and I hear is largely seasonal.

Ugh.

I just can't stand these mindless, dead-end shit jobs I've been working the past.. 6 years. I don't mind working long hours, working messed up hours, starting at the dirt below the ladder, just don't know what kind of opportunities I'll have to prove that around here. Fingers crossed.

ETA: Mr. Ryan sir - don't know if you're familiar with IATSE 212 or working with them.. but I noticed in their permittee application form that you need a minimum 20 days on-job experience to even apply for that. How are you supposed to have that much experience to apply to the company that's supposed to help you find work? Drop in on random production offices? Volunteer on dime-budget local indie fare? Maybe I'll find out at this thing on Saturday..

Trejo, not sure how IATSE 212 is; but for our's down here PA's can't join. You really don't get a chance to join until you go into a certain dept and have that job title. If you decide to become a set PA though, you will actually come under the DGA eventually.

Hmm, that seems to make a lot more sense, re-reading the application form. My bad - the class I took was covering both IATSE and DGC discussion and membership information, I think I might have crossed wires somewhere along the line while thinking strictly with a PA gig in mind.

Thanks Casey!

Worked on a TV Pilot with Club-E Entertainment, which they're going to pitch to Discovery and/or TLC. Also helped them with an event (not a show per se, but it was recorded for future use in...something. I dunno what.) Also interviewed out at Ranch Studios on Monday, although I don't think I got the job, unfortunately. The place was really cool, though, and I hope I can apply out there again.

Well, hope I helped some Trejo. It is something I actually to do, join IATSE. I am not a big fan of unions; but sadly in this line of work you have to belong.

Greg, good to know things are working out for you there in Austin. I just wanted to check and see if you had crossed paths with anyone I know. You stay there long enough I am sure we will work with the same people since a lot of folks from Austin wind up working here as well.

So, looks like we are actually done filming. And now I have a week-and-a-half to hustle up a new job. Anyone got a position open?

I am glad we have this thread though for those actually working in production.

Did you ever cross paths with an eccentric old cameraman named Deiter? Camera assisted him on the TV Pilot...guy's been around the block a few times, had a lot of stories to tell. He's also got every conceivable portable light you can think of, all packed into a Ford Explorer. He wouldn't let anyone unload or load it, because only he knew where everything went.

Right now, though, outside of the Ranch Studios interview I've had jack luck with features. I'm just glad I've been able to find production work of some kind, cause otherwise I'd be waiting tables again.

I'm not technically in the movie industry - I've done some TV work, but nothing high-brow enough to qualify, since I do an assortment of live events and post production.

RE: Editing - 6 of my college classmates (out of a class of 12) got work on the same bit of Soho (London) for editing companies as runners.

They work roughly 55 hours a week (on a good week) and earn roughly £12,000. None of them live in London so they're already looking at spending 2-3 grand of that on the train fare a year just by itself.

One of those guys was working for a company I shall not name (for obvious reasons) and was worked to the bone - he once did a 72 hours without leaving site. He was turned over for promotion dozens of times for people who had only just arrived at the company with better credentials than him.

About a year in, he got his lucky break and was offered the chance to spend 3 months in New York working with their editing branch out there (working on America's "somethingiest" model). He came home, used a contact he got while out there and is now working on Big Brother (hardly the epitome of quality TV, but brand recognition is worth it)

That's a lucky break. The rest of the runners are still stuck doing exactly what they started doing, and probably will do until they strike lucky or force themselves in somewhere.

Personally, I didn't want to go the runner route. I was offered two jobs early on, one working for an independant live events company - just as a cameraman, and another as a lecturer on cinematography. I took both and have been well paid for fantastic work ever since. Also, it opens up your contacts to freelance work on the side.

Worst case scenario, if you're at least interested - attend VideoForum at Earl's Court every year. It's great to see the new tech and hear some industry guys talk about their passions.

Darkmite8, have you considered trying to get into animation? Your video game background will have a lot more crossover experience with animation than it would a live action show.

However, I bet someone with your varied producing skills could land some kind of segment producing job on a reality show. Don't know what you feelings are toward reality shows, but segment producing would pay a sight better than PAing.