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RED DAWN (1984) - Teenie Boppers defeat Communism

post #1 of 75
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RED DAWN (1984) - ***

There is a shot in RED DAWN focusing upn a car's bumper sticker: "They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers." We then cut to a Soviet paratrooper pulling a Colt revolver from a dead man's grip. Either writer/director and NRA supporter John Milius has a sense of humor or its a serious scene that fails, I always get a laugh out of it.

What is known now is that the whole premise of RED DAWN is based on a fallacy of its epoch. We didn't learn until after the Cold War that the Russians didn't have the military or economical capacity to fully invade and occupy America in the 1980s. Plus, America's geographical isolation makes any invasion by a foreign power utterly impossible, but that doesn't matter.

DAWN's scheme is a fantasy what-if in the tradition of John Steinbeck's THE MOON IS DOWN and a exploratory tale of resistance inspired by the reality-based THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS. People simply dismiss this film as stupid ideological paranoia from the Reagan Decade. Where were these people when the RAMBO sequels were insanely popular?

With the plot being the Soviets invading America and high school kids becoming guerilla fighters, it should have been pretty damn stupid and absurd, except this is John Milius we're talking about here.

He help scripted APOCALYPSE NOW. He shot the awesomeness that is CONAN THE BARBARIAN, and he inspired John Goodman's character in THE BIG LEBOWSKI. He aint a moronic flag-waver like Michael Bay.

Now I don't agree with many of Milius' politics. I prefer to keep firearms from the hands of idiots who treat them like toys, and certainly some moments in RED DAWN seem to be his thematic argument against gun control. But what I do dig is his small touches in what is otherwise a decent action movie.

Take the Cuban Colonel. As a member of the Soviet occupation authority, he seems to understand why they're being beaten by kids, which his Russian superiors want to hear nothing of it. Just like Col. Mathieu in THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS, he's a former partisan fighter that is now the imperialist opposition of an insurgency...and he's disillusioned by it.

We never see such compelling communist baddies in the RAMBO pictures.

Then there are Milius' references to history from the Rocky Mountain landscape evoking intentional Deja vu feelings of Afghanistan to the town's cooperation this side of Vichy France.

Other nice stuff include Powers Boothe as the downed American pilot who gives a chilling assessment of this Third World War, which no viewer ever forgets, to the Russian counter-attack against these Wolverines that's surprisingly intelligent.

Ultimately I guess I liked RED DAWN because I enjoyed seeing Milius taking these materialistic and selfish kids of America and making them into soldiers fighting for a cause beyond shopping malls and crappy pop music, though apparently some folks took it too seriously and missed the whole point.

When American occupation forces of Iraq captured Saddam Hussein in 2003, the seizure operation was called Operation Red Dawn. The Pentagon claims the codename was a coincidence and that we have not become the Cuban Colonel.
post #2 of 75
The name of Operation Red Dawn came from the commanding officer who was a fan of the movie, you dumb fuck. He named his 2 units Wolverine 1 and 2.
post #3 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
The name of Operation Red Dawn came from the commanding officer who was a fan of the movie, you dumb fuck. He named his 2 units Wolverine 1 and 2.
post #4 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
The name of Operation Red Dawn came from the commanding officer who was a fan of the movie, you dumb fuck. He named his 2 units Wolverine 1 and 2.
And this "dumb fuck" asks you, don't you think that commander sorta missed the fucking point of the movie? I mean, dramatized rebel insurgents now fighting insurgents themselves. It's BATTLE OF ALGIERS* in real life with the reversal of roles, it seems.

*=A movie you should watch sometime, instead of using a goddamn avatar of something like goddamn ZOOLANDER.
post #5 of 75
BEST REVIEW EVER!

I say that seriously, Latin Inferno. May you never leave. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #6 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
BEST REVIEW EVER!

I say that seriously, Latin Inferno. May you never leave. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I do leave the CHUD premises, I doubt it will be on my terms of free will.

But really, who here at CHUD has seen ALGIERS? A masterpiece of leftist film on revolution shot in a decade of revolution...and for a conservative like Milius to use it as his dramatic foli for his RED DAWN....Interesting, to say the least.
post #7 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
And this "dumb fuck" asks you, don't you think that commander sorta missed the fucking point of the movie? I mean, dramatized rebel insurgents now fighting insurgents themselves. It's BATTLE OF ALGIERS* in real life with the reversal of roles, it seems.

*=A movie you should watch sometime, instead of using a goddamn avatar of something like goddamn ZOOLANDER.
Funny how you assume I've never seen La Bataille D'Alger. Pretty much in the same years I've seen Red Dawn...

but it's not as good as Zoolander, that's for sure.... it's in fucking French!
post #8 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
If I do leave the CHUD premises, I doubt it will be on my terms of free will.

But really, who here at CHUD has seen ALGIERS?
Wow.
post #9 of 75
What the hell did I just read?
post #10 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno
If I do leave the CHUD premises, I doubt it will be on my terms of free will.

But really, who here at CHUD has seen ALGIERS?
Well, for starters, I'd say anyone who's been keeping up with the 1001 Movies list, anyone who's been watching TCM during Oscar month, anyone who likes classic film in general, and Criterion collectors.

Please don't insinuate we don't know anything. It makes you look dumb.
post #11 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eaton View Post
Well, for starters, I'd say anyone who's been keeping up with the 1001 Movies list, anyone who's been watching TCM during Oscar month, anyone who likes classic film in general, and Criterion collectors.

Please don't insinuate we don't know anything. It makes you look dumb.
First off, it's called a "conversation topper." You know, it starts a discussion....you know?

All I said was, I thought ALGIERS was a great movie. Who else has seen it?

Too bad CHUD seems to be the most easily offended discussion board I've ever been to.
post #12 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
First off, it's called a "conversation topper." You know, it starts a discussion....you know?

All I said was, I thought ALGIERS was a great movie. Who else has seen it?

Too bad CHUD seems to be the most easily offended discussion board I've ever been to.
Duke Fleed and you should start the Cool Dudes Club. He's probably seen "Battle of Algiers". He seems militant to me.

EDIT: Also, don't hotlink. It's a no-no.
post #13 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
Funny how you assume I've never seen La Bataille D'Alger. Pretty much in the same years I've seen Red Dawn...

but it's not as good as Zoolander, that's for sure.... it's in fucking French!
Sorry, but to quote someone......"I call 'em as I see 'em."

Funny how you completely ignored my fucking point about the reversal of roles as DAWN and BATTLE have with the foreign occupiers.

Jesus, even people I don't like make some good points sometimes.
post #14 of 75
It's not militant, unless "miltantly anti-douchebags who show up not to actually have a conversation, but try and draw attention to themselves" is a policy.
post #15 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
Sorry, but to quote someone......"I call 'em as I see 'em."

Funny how you completely ignored my fucking point about the reversal of roles as DAWN and BATTLE have with the foreign occupiers.

Jesus, even people I don't like make some good points sometimes.
I appreciate the point. But, it's just stretching it.
post #16 of 75
post #17 of 75
One thing I'm lost on in your review is the three stars. How am I supposed to know what the " *** " means. Are those 3 stars for AVERAGE or PRETTY GOOD? Or REALLY GOOD? Also, how many stars is it out of? Could you possible give me a scale so I can at least get some kind of idea where you rate this film? Granted, you've compared it to BATTLE OF ALGIERS (I think, but not sure- I gotta re-read the review again), but without some sort of system I can't really see where you're coming from.

The movie also made me think of PATHS OF GLORY, because that had to do with war. Anyone here a fan of the ol' brick? He's a good director if you've never seen any of his stuff.


Anyway, just wanted to say THE 400 BLOWS.
post #18 of 75
Leave this guy alone, friends, after all, if it wasn't for him, I'd never know about obscure titles like Die Hard and Red Dawn. I for one am glad he's getting the word out on these flicks.
post #19 of 75
He's a good guy with good opinions. I enjoy his quirks and what he brings here.
post #20 of 75
The best part about Red Dawn is the thumbs up the kid gives as he gets destroyed by the helicopter.
post #21 of 75
The best part was the pissing in the radiator. Imagine if it were a Disney cartoon and the radiator could talk. The stories it would have of C. Thomas Howell pissing in its face.

Menken would write the songs.
post #22 of 75
The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall.

John has a long moustache. John has a long moustache.
post #23 of 75
damn, now i wanna watch this again...if only i can find my copy!
post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Venkman View Post
damn, now i wanna watch this again...if only i can find my copy!
Just tune into AMC and wait patiently. It won't be long.
post #25 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Stockwell View Post
One thing I'm lost on in your review is the three stars. How am I supposed to know what the " *** " means. Are those 3 stars for AVERAGE or PRETTY GOOD? Or REALLY GOOD? Also, how many stars is it out of? Could you possible give me a scale so I can at least get some kind of idea where you rate this film? Granted, you've compared it to BATTLE OF ALGIERS (I think, but not sure- I gotta re-read the review again), but without some sort of system I can't really see where you're coming from.

The movie also made me think of PATHS OF GLORY, because that had to do with war. Anyone here a fan of the ol' brick? He's a good director if you've never seen any of his stuff.


Anyway, just wanted to say THE 400 BLOWS.

Sorry, I had a star-system in my signature that told folks what the ratings mean. Apologies. For the full run-down, and to piss off some folks:

*****=Masterpiece
****1/2=Very Great
****=Great
***1/2=Really Good
***=Good/Decent
**1/2=Meh/Average
**=Mediocre
*1/2=Shitty
*=Bomb
post #26 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
The best part was the pissing in the radiator. Imagine if it were a Disney cartoon and the radiator could talk. The stories it would have of C. Thomas Howell pissing in its face.

Menken would write the songs.
That was a good scene. So was the opening with the Russian para-troopers. and even the climax when the Cuban Colonel confronted the wounded last few Wolverines.

In fact, the only scene in RED DAWN that pisses me off might be the cheesy "epilogue." I read somewhere once that the studio added in that "memorial" garbage so to let the American audience know that they won the war.
post #27 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce View Post
Leave this guy alone, friends, after all, if it wasn't for him, I'd never know about obscure titles like Die Hard and Red Dawn. I for one am glad he's getting the word out on these flicks.
You owe me a hug when I review Milius' DILLINGER. Now that's an underseen and obscure good picture.
post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
*****=Masterpiece
****1/2=Very Great
****=Great
***1/2=Really Good
***=Good/Decent
**1/2=Meh/Average
**=Mediocre
*1/2=Shitty
*=Bomb
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I get it.
post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Now I get it.
Patrick, we've been doing it backwards this whole time!
post #30 of 75
I like that sarcasm is lost on this guy. It makes him seem fresh...no, wait, I'm confusing fresh with stupid again, aren't I?
post #31 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
I like that sarcasm is lost on this guy. It makes him seem fresh...no, wait, I'm confusing fresh with stupid again, aren't I?
"Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
post #32 of 75
I actually got in some pretty decent-sized trouble when I called this movie (which I loved when I was, you know, a teenager) "the secret fantasy of every high school kid who's ever been bored in class" in a teen movie article for my high school newspaper. Fucking Columbine ruined everything.
post #33 of 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I actually got in some pretty decent-sized trouble when I called this movie (which I loved when I was, you know, a teenager) "the secret fantasy of every high school kid who's ever been bored in class" in a teen movie article for my high school newspaper. Fucking Columbine ruined everything.
I have a teacher, in his 30s, who claimed RED DAWN was "scary" to him during the 80s because he actually thought WW3 could actually happen. He laughs about it now.

and yeah, Columbine wasn't a good time to be a High School student. With administrators over-paranoid about where the next psychopathic gun-wielding brats would pop up from, everything not mainstream was effectively put on a "Watch List."

I'm sure if I ever run for public official, that document with my name will come out into the open, and all for me carrying around a DVD of DAWN OF THE DEAD.
post #34 of 75
My high school experience began with Columbine and ended with 9/11, basically. Plus, I was the only pro-choicer at a Catholic school. Nice combination.
post #35 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
My high school experience began with Columbine and ended with 9/11, basically. Plus, I was the only pro-choicer at a Catholic school. Nice combination.
Damn, that must have been rough. You know what would have made it better?

Carry a coat hanger around at school, for the hell of it.
post #36 of 75
*****=Masterpiece, ****1/2=Very Great, ****=Great, ***1/2=Really Good, ***=Good/Decent, **1/2=Meh/Average, **=Mediocre, *1/2=Shitty, *=LatinoInferno
post #37 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
"Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
In what universe do you live that you think anyone would follow you other then to endlessly mock you?
post #38 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
In what universe do you live that you think anyone would follow you other then to endlessly mock you?
endlessly?

What, no love for Duke Fleet?

Goddamn inconsistent CHUD!
post #39 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
*****=Masterpiece, ****1/2=Very Great, ****=Great, ***1/2=Really Good, ***=Good/Decent, **1/2=Meh/Average, **=Mediocre, *1/2=Shitty, *=LatinoInferno
Now I remember why I assumed you never saw ALGIERS.

Come on, is that the fucking best you can do?
post #40 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
What, no love for Duke Fleet?
Case. Rested.
post #41 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eaton View Post
Case. Rested, LatinoInferno is Right, and I wished he was my Daddy.
Fixed for intellectual honesty.
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
Fixed for intellectual honesty.
*LatinoInferno
post #43 of 75
You gotta admit, that one sheet is pretty fucking awesome.

I just bought the expanded score and it's the same image. Poledouris + Awesome cover art = Banks warm and tingly.
post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
I'm sure if I ever run for public official, that document with my name will come out into the open, and all for me carrying around a DVD of DAWN OF THE DEAD.
I know what you mean since EVIL DEAD and SUSPIRIA




Y TU MAMA TAMBIEN
THE LAST DETAIL





JULES ET JIM
post #45 of 75
It's a total drag that a conversation on RED DAWN was begun (and subsequently derailed) by a guy in "my balls are bigger than yours" mode. Can we please have a serious (and civil) discussion of Wolverines and Harry Dean Stanton once in our lives?

"Avenge Meeeeeeeeheeheeeee!"

There was a South Park episode with a great takeoff on that, by the way.
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Bodhisattva View Post
It's a total drag that a conversation on RED DAWN was begun (and subsequently derailed) by a guy in "my balls are bigger than yours" mode
Where the fuck did you see a discussion in this thread beside us pointing the obvious at Inferno. That he's a trollish moron.
post #47 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
Where the fuck did you see a discussion in this thread beside us pointing the obvious at Inferno. That he's a trollish moron.
You mean besides the short Columbine chat?

Again, if I'm such a trollish moron...why do you keep posting here?

Fact is, if this was pro wrestling, I would be the goddamn Heel. Everyone, or most people, hate me, and are willing to shell out big bucks to see someone beat me for the belt. I'm box-office.
post #48 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Bodhisattva View Post
It's a total drag that a conversation on RED DAWN was begun (and subsequently derailed) by a guy in "my balls are bigger than yours" mode. Can we please have a serious (and civil) discussion of Wolverines and Harry Dean Stanton once in our lives?

"Avenge Meeeeeeeeheeheeeee!"

There was a South Park episode with a great takeoff on that, by the way.
I like DAWN, but I must admit that PARK episode was fucking hilarious.
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinoInferno View Post
"Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
Is that a movie quote? If it is, that's fuckin' awesome.
post #50 of 75
That's Obi Wan to Han Solo while on the Death Star. Please turn in your movie-geek license immediately and report for remedial training.
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