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Junior was kind of prophetic....

post #1 of 35
3/28/08 at 9:19am
Thread Starter 
It was bound to happen one day:

Quote:
Labor of Love
Is society ready for this pregnant husband?


To our neighbors, my wife, Nancy, and I don’t appear in the least unusual. To those in the quiet Oregon community where we live, we are viewed just as we are -- a happy couple deeply in love. Our desire to work hard, buy our first home, and start a family was nothing out of the ordinary. That is, until we decided that I would carry our child.

I am transgender, legally male, and legally married to Nancy. Unlike those in same-sex marriages, domestic partnerships, or civil unions, Nancy and I are afforded the more than 1,100 federal rights of marriage. Sterilization is not a requirement for sex reassignment, so I decided to have chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy but kept my reproductive rights. Wanting to have a biological child is neither a male nor female desire, but a human desire.

Ten years ago, when Nancy and I became a couple, the idea of us having a child was more dream than plan. I always wanted to have children. However, due to severe endometriosis 20 years ago, Nancy had to undergo a hysterectomy and is unable to carry a child. But after the success of our custom screen-printing business and a move from Hawaii to the Pacific Northwest two years ago, the timing finally seemed right. I stopped taking my bimonthly testosterone injections. It had been roughly eight years since I had my last menstrual cycle, so this wasn’t a decision that I took lightly. My body regulated itself after about four months, and I didn’t have to take any exogenous estrogen, progesterone, or fertility drugs to aid my pregnancy.
I'd love to see the kid's face when they try to explain to him that daddy really was his mommy.
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post #2 of 35
3/28/08 at 10:07am
It's a glorified lesbian.
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post #3 of 35
3/28/08 at 10:17am
Tati, the pronoun you're looking for is "he." Lesbianism doesn't enter into it. Gender and sexuality are two separate issues.

The way that they're being treated by everyone around them aside (wow), I think this is pretty darn fantastic. This couple gets to have the (at least partially) biological family that they want and the child will be raised by loving parents who really wanted him/her.
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post #4 of 35
3/28/08 at 10:24am
Still amazingly confusing, you have to admit.
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post #5 of 35
3/28/08 at 10:53am
Yeah, but people have found all sorts of ways to make different kinds of families work. This is just another arrangement. If the people around them could stop being such jerks, it probably won't be so hard.
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post #6 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
It could be worse. They could be a lesbian Emo couple in Mexico.
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post #7 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:03am
And have the kid's father be Big Foot.
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post #8 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
It could be worse. They could be a lesbian Emo couple in Mexico.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
And have the kid's father be Big Foot.
Now that would be messed up.
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post #9 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:07am
I agree with Zooey on this, think of all of the stories we read about children being neglected, abused, and killed? Think of the rage you feel when you read those stories. Now here are two people with a(n assumed) healthy relationship that want to bring a life into the world that they will love and care for. That's amazing and far outweighs any confusion the child might feel about society's perceived notions of gender roles.

Sexuality and/or gender are motes in the grand scheme of things when you really think about it.
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post #10 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:24am
I'll step up and admit.. I still don't get it (stupid link is blocked by work filters)

He is literally, having the baby? Just like Arnie did and they cleverly built a movie around it to hide the fact that the world's biggest action star was now the world's first pregnant man?

Do testosterone treatments cause the development of a vagina and womb within a man, or can babies grow in beer bellies and be c-sectioned out? He had a menstrual cycle? A baby can develop properly inside a man-mommy?

The birds and the bees were a LIE!
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post #11 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:25am
I hope it works out for them. Because, yeah, it's good to see a couple who wants and loves their kid. I just hope that the people around them can be supportive and not a pack of dickheads. But I do wonder - how do you explain this to the kid when he or she is old enough? I'm pulling for them, but their family unit had better be strong as hell, and they'd better hope that everyone in their surrounding community can be as open-minded as they are.

Edit - I'm reading the full article now, and it doesn't seem like they're getting a hell of alot of support on this. Which is a shame. But her family doesn't even know that he used to be a woman, which... yeah, doesn't make this any easier on them.
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post #12 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trejo View Post
I'll step up and admit.. I still don't get it (stupid link is blocked by work filters)

He is literally, having the baby? Just like Arnie did and they cleverly built a movie around it to hide the fact that the world's biggest action star was now the world's first pregnant man?

Do testosterone treatments cause the development of a vagina and womb within a man, or can babies grow in beer bellies and be c-sectioned out? He had a menstrual cycle? A baby can develop properly inside a man-mommy?

The birds and the bees were a LIE!
Transgender. She is now legally living as a he. But he still has the essential mommy parts needed.
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post #13 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron View Post
Transgender. She is now legally living as a he. But he still has the essential mommy parts needed.
Which means he didn't have the full operation if he still has girl parts to carry a baby. Which makes me wonder how he's considered legally a man. I'm not saying he is or isn't, but what are the legalities - at what point is a person considered in the eyes of the law not that specific sex? Doesn't the full operation have to take place, or does it vary from state to state? The transgendered girl I knew, who lived in TX at that time, said that she wasn't considered by law to be a woman till she had her bottom half operation. Now she's legally a woman, but not while she still had both parts, like this man does.
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post #14 of 35
3/28/08 at 11:45am
Different states have different laws as to whether or not bottom surgery is required to legally change your gender. Apparently, in Oregon (which is where the transman in question lives) it's not.
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post #15 of 35
3/28/08 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage View Post
It was bound to happen one day:



I'd love to see the kid's face ...

So would I.
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post #16 of 35
3/28/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
It's a glorified lesbian.
What's a glorified lesbian?

I, for one, glorify ALL lesbians!*



*apart from the ugly, boiler-suited, bull-dykes, of course.
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post #17 of 35
3/28/08 at 12:12pm
This was a pretty great article. I especially "liked" (meaning, was astonished) the bit about the doctor taking thousands of dollars, then telling them his staff was "uncomfortable." That was really sleazy.

Anyway, I'll be the first to admit there was that intial sort of "oh, weiiiiiirrrrrd, lol" response when hearing about the subject matter (this article was actually sent to me a couple of days ago), but the author does a really great job of explaining the situation with passion and defends her point simply by telling it. It's very well written and touching in the end.
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post #18 of 35
3/28/08 at 12:33pm
Oooh, thanks for the clear up Amphib. I had my gender changes backwards, thought -he- became -she- but was still legally a man.
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post #19 of 35
3/28/08 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron View Post
Transgender. She is now legally living as a he. But he still has the essential mommy parts needed.
Talk about half-assing the job.
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post #20 of 35
3/28/08 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Talk about half-assing the job.
Utilitarian, some might call it. This decision seems to have worked to the couple's benefit.
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post #21 of 35
3/28/08 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Swicegood View Post
I agree with Zooey on this, think of all of the stories we read about children being neglected, abused, and killed? Think of the rage you feel when you read those stories. Now here are two people with a(n assumed) healthy relationship that want to bring a life into the world that they will love and care for. That's amazing and far outweighs any confusion the child might feel about society's perceived notions of gender roles.

Sexuality and/or gender are motes in the grand scheme of things when you really think about it.
Perfect post, couldn't have said it better.

I think it's cool, but they should consider moving to a more accepting community for all their sakes.
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post #22 of 35
3/28/08 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Utilitarian, some might call it. This decision seems to have worked to the couple's benefit.
So if there is chick with dick, does this mean it's dude with coot?
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post #23 of 35
3/28/08 at 4:28pm
To quote another Arnold movie in regards to this article: "Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina."
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post #24 of 35
3/28/08 at 4:52pm
I feel bad for the kid.

Not because I think the parents won't love it or provide it a good environment to grow up in. I think they will. But they seem to be pretty open about this whole thing (which I guess you have to be. No real way to hide a pregnant man), and frankly, that kid's life is going to be a living goddamn hell if his/her peers know about this.

It's great to sit here and say "Good for them", but this isn't the real world. The real world is the doctors that turned them away, the receptionists that laughed at them, and the people that refused to acknowledge him as male.The real world is full of cruel, intolerant, and unaccepting people and, especially with children and teenagers, things outside of the norm are ridiculed and ostrasized. Being a normal kid in the world today is a fucked up enough proposition, but having public record of your dad actually being your mom? Holy shit. That's years of emotional torment waiting to happen.

Still, hopefully it will work out for them. I certainley hope so. It sounds like they're a loving couple and really want the child.
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post #25 of 35
3/28/08 at 4:55pm
Breast feeding should be fun: http://youtube.com/watch?v=21Pbn55I7-c
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post #26 of 35
3/28/08 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
I feel bad for the kid.

Not because I think the parents won't love it or provide it a good environment to grow up in. I think they will. But they seem to be pretty open about this whole thing (which I guess you have to be. No real way to hide a pregnant man), and frankly, that kid's life is going to be a living goddamn hell if his/her peers know about this.

It's great to sit here and say "Good for them", but this isn't the real world. The real world is the doctors that turned them away, the receptionists that laughed at them, and the people that refused to acknowledge him as male.The real world is full of cruel, intolerant, and unaccepting people and, especially with children and teenagers, things outside of the norm are ridiculed and ostrasized. Being a normal kid in the world today is a fucked up enough proposition, but having public record of your dad actually being your mom? Holy shit. That's years of emotional torment waiting to happen.

Still, hopefully it will work out for them. I certainley hope so. It sounds like they're a loving couple and really want the child.
Sure, the kid will have a tough life, but every kid from a non-traditional home lives some sort of tough life. Are you saying that they shouldn't have a kid just because the kid might have a rough time of it? Following that logic, black people shouldn't have been reproducing in the U.S. until fairly recently. Teasing is one thing, the possibility of lynching is quite another.
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post #27 of 35
3/28/08 at 7:11pm
I think he's just recognizing that the kid will likely have a though time growing up in todays society. And this is an "extra" non-traditional home, his/her dad will have actually given birth to the kid, it is disingenuous to just brush that off as a minor detail that nobody will notice and accept.
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post #28 of 35
3/28/08 at 7:16pm
If the kid's smart, he'll realize that this is the kind of thing that the right people don't care about and weeds out the jerks. (Gordon the smelly fat kid, Freaks and Geeks)
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post #29 of 35
3/28/08 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I think he's just recognizing that the kid will likely have a though time growing up in todays society. And this is an "extra" non-traditional home, his/her dad will have actually given birth to the kid, it is disingenuous to just brush that off as a minor detail that nobody will notice and accept.
This is all I was saying.

I never said, and certainly never meant to imply, that they shouldn't be allowed to have children. I just feel bad for a kid that's going to have a very rough go of things because of something they have zero control over. That same sentiment applies for children ridiculed because of skin color or because they come from non-traditional homes or because they're disabled, or any other countless number of things.

While I suppose there's a whole issue of people thinking the parents irresponsible for bringing the kid into the world in that situation in the first place, it wasn't my intent to say that. Arguably anyone that decides to have a child is aking a risk that that child is going to face severe ridicule, so I'm certainly not saying people in such situations shouldn't have children.
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post #30 of 35
3/29/08 at 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trejo View Post
Just like Arnie did and they cleverly built a movie around it to hide the fact that the world's biggest action star was now the world's first pregnant man?
I thought this was Billy Crystal.
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post #31 of 35
3/31/08 at 3:31pm
Now with more photos, and a potential Oprah interview;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...-_n_94250.html



This is super strange ... but anyways, in this cases what is the sexual preference of the "wife" here. She's heterosexual, or is she lesbian but doesn't care that her mate is a woman but doesn't want to look and be one?
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post #32 of 35
3/31/08 at 3:40pm
Well, if you want to try and figure it out. He still has female sex organs and she's having sex with that so.......

In any case, it's not worth the stress to figure out this one.
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post #33 of 35
3/31/08 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Different states have different laws as to whether or not bottom surgery is required to legally change your gender. Apparently, in Oregon (which is where the transman in question lives) it's not.
I'd bet these laws coincide with same-sex marriage laws. IE: States that are liberal with same-sex, are probably lliberal with gender determination. Otherwise, you'd hear more stories like : "I couldn't marry my homosexual partner until one of us springs for a pair of boobs".


Made me think of those T-Shirts you see in the boardwalk shops:

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post #34 of 35
3/31/08 at 7:45pm
That's still no "It's not a beer belly. It's a fuel tank for a sex machine" half-shirt. That's for sure.
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post #35 of 35
4/1/08 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
And have the kid's father be Chupacabra.
fixed.
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