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Grindhouse

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
So this got it's official UK premiere on Thursday with Edgar Wright introducing it down in London. I saw it Yesterday in Leeds, obstensibly the second time the film was being shown in this country.

And there were perhaps 50 people at the cinema for it. Still it was an awesome experience, it started at like 11pm and just carried on into about 2:30am (with a break inbetween to get tasty beverages).

I'd already seen Planet Terror and found it amusing enough, but it was only when it was paired up with Death Proof that it became truly great. Having these two films operate and interconnect in the same world is kinda awesome and it was neat to see Dakota Bloc and Earl McGraw appear in Death Proof.

I still loved Death Proof more than Planet Terror though, it almost feels a little Funny Gamesish in how it wants to comment on the violence we're seeing. It's like Tarantino sets up this first group of girls who are just aggressively irritating and sort of wills us to want Mike to destroy them, showing the fatal car crash four times and preceding the chaos with Mike's wink to the audience.

Having seen Death Proof my reaction to the people who were upset at how Mike acted in the later half of the film is heightened. I sort of viewed them as being creepily misoginistic before, but you must really, really, really, hate women if you can't take some satisfaction in Mike being deconstructed.
post #2 of 85
You found the first group of girls to be more irritating than the second?
post #3 of 85
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I couldn't stand any of them at all. The 2nd group of girls seemed to actually be, y'know, people as opposed to the ciphers of the 1st group.
post #4 of 85
I had almost the exact opposite reaction to you. Once the first group of girls was killed, the film stopped being fun.
post #5 of 85
Thread Starter 
You see I thought the first half of the film was being needlessly dull to try and make us root for their deaths, Zoe Bell car surfing and the epic fucking car chase seemed to be the more fun element to me.

But horses for courses.
post #6 of 85
I'm more for the second group of girls as well (although I have to admit that I never found the first group 'annoying'). Watching Bell, Dawson, and Thoms drag Stuntman Mike out of his car and give him the mother of all beatdowns just felt immensely satisfying. That, and Bell's 'I'm Okay!'

I'm seeing it tonight at the Prince Charles in London. Can't wait.
post #7 of 85
I thought Grindhouse was a terrific double bill that I wish we would see more of. I do prefer Planet Terror over death proof. I thought that Zoe Bell was terrific. My fave fake trailer was Machete, but I wish there could have been a martial arts trailer instead of the Rob Zombie directed one.
post #8 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant View Post
I had almost the exact opposite reaction to you. Once the first group of girls was killed, the film stopped being fun.
That's what I'm saying. I liked the first girls way more and actually dug the first half way more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Having seen Death Proof my reaction to the people who were upset at how Mike acted in the later half of the film is heightened. I sort of viewed them as being creepily misoginistic before, but you must really, really, really, hate women if you can't take some satisfaction in Mike being deconstructed.
I disagree. It's not an issue of wanting Mike to live so much as it didn't feel like these girls earned their revenge. They hadn't really won me over with their obnoxious behavior beforehand and I just didn't really feel for them on their path to get Mike. They weren't sympathetic. Nothing had really been taken from them. They were fucked with a little bit but for the most part, they're gonna be all right after this. If I'm in a revenge film, I want the character(s) to have been through hell and back.
post #9 of 85
I cant stand the girls in Death Proof there dialogue is so irritating cause they only talk about stupid and superficial shit.
Jackie Brown was the last great dialogue Quentin wrote after that the visual side of his movies are the only things interesting anymore from him.
post #10 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
That's what I'm saying. I liked the first girls way more and actually dug the first half way more.

I disagree. It's not an issue of wanting Mike to live so much as it didn't feel like these girls earned their revenge. They hadn't really won me over with their obnoxious behavior beforehand and I just didn't really feel for them on their path to get Mike. They weren't sympathetic. Nothing had really been taken from them. They were fucked with a little bit but for the most part, they're gonna be all right after this. If I'm in a revenge film, I want the character(s) to have been through hell and back.
Mike tried to kill Zoe and had been fucking around with Agnetha, they simply terrorised him as he tried to terrorise them.

That's the thing as well, the first group of girls just seem like your standard victims. They're talking but there's no real connection between them, one of them is a cipher, one of them is almost abrasive in her attitude and the other one is a cliche survivor girl. The 2nd group of girls actually seem like real people, which is odd given their profession, the story that Agnetha and Zoe tell about the ditch has far more humanity than anything that the other three ever said.
post #11 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ildevansmack View Post
I cant stand the girls in Death Proof there dialogue is so irritating cause they only talk about stupid and superficial shit.
Jackie Brown was the last great dialogue Quentin wrote after that the visual side of his movies are the only things interesting anymore from him.
Discussion over.
post #12 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
but I wish there could have been a martial arts trailer instead of the Rob Zombie directed one.
Ive been watching a ton of martial arts trailers from the 70's recently, and I agree 10,000%. Not even Nicholas Cage as Fu Manchu could save that from being utterly absymal.
post #13 of 85
The Machete and Thanksgiving trailers are the best.

Death Proof was so tedious (I saw the "Missing Reels inserted" cut). Way too much girl talk for one guy to take. Planet Terror on the other hand was loads for fun. I loved it!

Check out the below scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83QScLAvl9g
post #14 of 85
I hated Death Proof, but then again I'm not a Tarantino fan. I thought Planet Terror was great in almost every way, except I can't stand Rose McGowan, she bothers me. The return of Michael Biehn gave me goosebumps however.
post #15 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber's EYE CONDITION! View Post
The return of Michael Biehn gave me goosebumps however.
Have you tried watching Dragon Squad?
post #16 of 85
For a brief moment in time, Biehn was truly happy! I remember seeing a behind the scenes clip where a GLOWING Biehn exclaimed:

"It's so gory and gross! The Kids are just gonna love it!!"
post #17 of 85
Then quickly back to James Cameron death threats!
post #18 of 85
Yeah, I didn't really care for Death Proof. Its easily QT's poorest film and I only liked Kurt Russell in it. Aside from the gory smashup and the pounding at the end, it wasn't really fun or even interesting.

Planet Terror, on the other hand, was riotous from start to finish. Rodriguez realy nailed it in every way and it was just ridiculously entertaining.

I would like to see Grindhouse as one cut though. Any news on whether its coming to any other cities?
post #19 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
... the story that Agnetha and Zoe tell about the ditch has far more humanity than anything that the other three ever said.
That story was so odd for me. Like Tarantino was using it to suck up to Zoe Bell.
post #20 of 85
Here're all 4 Grindhouse fake trailers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmckBc0aG3M
post #21 of 85
March 31st, Starz is going to show the theatrical version of Grindhouse.
post #22 of 85
Saw Grindhouse for the second time on Friday. Dissappointing turnout though, maybe 20-30 people. Quite suprising as there were only 2 screenings. When I caught the entended cuts at a local indie a couple of months back it was packed.

I think Kurt Russell shrieks better in this film than any man in screen history. His wailing after the climatic car crash is hysterical.
post #23 of 85
Seeing this again reminded me of how well both of these movies work in their original, intended form. There was a full crowd tonight, so the reactions were fun to gauge - especially from people who hadn't seen both movies before.

While I think Planet Terror is more fun, I think Death Proof is the better movie. It takes its sweet time building up, but the payoff - I think - just makes the whole flick a fulfilling experience.
post #24 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant View Post
That story was so odd for me. Like Tarantino was using it to suck up to Zoe Bell.
That's the nature of Tarantino, all of his dialogue is generally about his love for something. He is desperate to turn people onto other things and to share his passions, the conversation about Dave Dee, Dozy, Mitch and Tich just before the car crash is another example and it's probably the only point in the film I kinda liked the first set of characters.
post #25 of 85
Saw Grindhouse last year.

Thought Planet Terror was a fun movie. The opening titles were some of the best I'd ever seen, great use of music. Rodriguez really has a way with strip club scenes, surpassing From Dusk 'till Dawn and Sin City imo.

Was really hyped up for Death Proof as I'd been waiting a long time for another QT film to come out after Kill Bill. Really could not have been more disapointed. Woulda been nice if both groups of girls were killed.
post #26 of 85
Plantet Terror, lots of fun. No real desire to revisit it.

Death Proof, really slow and dull but came with a triumphant finale that sent me out of the theater very happy about the whole Grindhouse experience. I did revisit the film through the extended cut. My feelings still stand. The first half is utterly tedious. The dialogue of the 1st half girls just flew right through my head. It was like noise.
post #27 of 85
Thread Starter 
If anyone is interested I kinda wrote a 5 and a half thousand word review of both parts of Grindhouse.

http://whatspikelikes.wordpress.com/...11/grindhouse/
post #28 of 85
I liked Death Proof...and I thought the two groups of girls were interesting in different ways. Girl group #1 are local, college age (but not in college) girls, just bullshitting around, no direction in life (except for Jungle Julia I suppose).Girl Group #2 are professional movie folk. In a weird way it's like Tarantino is arguing that movie folk have some kind of Darwinian ability to survive as compared with 'normal' folk (how's that for a film school thesis?)

I should have loved Planet Terror: it has all the elements I love in a cheesy B movie. But it just left me cold.
post #29 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
I disagree. It's not an issue of wanting Mike to live so much as it didn't feel like these girls earned their revenge. They hadn't really won me over with their obnoxious behavior beforehand and I just didn't really feel for them on their path to get Mike. They weren't sympathetic. Nothing had really been taken from them. They were fucked with a little bit but for the most part, they're gonna be all right after this. If I'm in a revenge film, I want the character(s) to have been through hell and back.
Just want to chime in on this thought -- I still don't know what Tarantino was going for with "Death Proof," and it didn't impress me enough to analyze it that deeply. However, a few thoughts...

First, none of Tarantino's girls won me over -- their dialogue is petty, bordering on obnoxious, and even when confronted with death they still take the time to be "cute" (see the puzzling and ill-acted moment when Bell jumps up from the brush she just crash-landed into, or the "Please don't dead end" chant). There's certainly an argument that we are meant to root for the girls in the first half (since they are total innocents), and Mike in the second (when he is being pursued)...

But that argument doesn't really wash with me, because when the girls decide to chase after Mike I am not rooting for anyone -- Mike still deserves comeuppance, but the chicks are so full of glee and pumped on bloodlust that they come off even worse than when they were simply unlikable. At that point I started caring more about the considerable aesthetic and techincal aspects than character (which I assume is antithetical to the "grindhouse" label).

That ties into one of the things that annoyed me most about "Death Proof" -- it felt as if Tarantino wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. Rodriguez pitches his half of "Grindhouse" in the tone that the package was sold to me -- ham & cheesy, trashy, gory -- but Tarantino only starts his movie that way. When the focus shifts to Rosario and Co. the picture is clean and the editing never falters. It's as if Tarantino abandoned the agreed-upon conceit halfway through to serve his own mysterious needs.

My main problem is that if Tarantino really intended on making a grand statement on violence and misogny with "Death Proof" he has failed, because one would need a pretty good shovel and a hell of a lot of glue to dig out and piece together his actual point. And if his intentions were to merely entertain he has also failed, because he does not present a build up with situations or characters that fulfill that objective.

All he's got is the car chase and 25 minutes worth of Kurt Russell charisma -- two elements that beg to be in a better film.
post #30 of 85
Of the two movies featured in Grindhouse, I tend to go for Death Proof more then Planet Terror. Both are entertaining, but Kurt Russell and the car sequences win out over Rose McGowen and zombie gore.

I really didn't have a problem with the way Tarantino handled the story in Death Proof, but I wonder how fans would have felt if he had allowed one of the girls from group 1 to survive and be the one to go after Stuntman Mike instead of the girls from group 2.
post #31 of 85
If that scene with the 2nd group of gals yammering took place in a locker room shower instead of a diner, all would have been forgiven.

It might have been BobClark who mentioned that it needed tits (in the Post-Release thread).
post #32 of 85
I really enjoyed Grindhouse and appreciated the experience of the double-bill (which was enhanced by my theater showing true grindhouse trailers before the actual feature started), but in the end I think all I really took from it was the experience, because I have heretofore had zero desire to revisit the film on DVD, outside of a communal setting.

When I think of specific scenes or moments from either feature, I can't help but think, "yeah, that was really great...for then". Maybe I'll run across it eventually and get over whatever reservations I have, but I'm not rushing it.
post #33 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmarkJobber View Post
My main problem is that if Tarantino really intended on making a grand statement on violence and misogny with "Death Proof" he has failed, because one would need a pretty good shovel and a hell of a lot of glue to dig out and piece together his actual point. And if his intentions were to merely entertain he has also failed, because he does not present a build up with situations or characters that fulfill that objective.

All he's got is the car chase and 25 minutes worth of Kurt Russell charisma -- two elements that beg to be in a better film.
The qualities sharp turn from the first half didn't bother me too much, a number of Grindhouse flicks used it's technical specs as a selling point [Panorama Blue] so some id look good, and it also evokes Russ Meyer's profusely colorful exploitation for the blood thirsty second half.
post #34 of 85
Anyone in the Manchester area, this has been at the Odeon for a week or so and is playing the Cornerhouse on Oxford Road this weekend. Just FYI.

Might go, but I enjoyed Planet Terror so much more than Death Proof, I don't know if this would improve things for me.
post #35 of 85
I believe I mentioned boobies, and no one agrees? I thought I was in the GRINDHOUSE thread.
post #36 of 85
Thread Starter 
We're not all misanthropes I'm afraid.
post #37 of 85
I'll go for the save and say that I would have liked to see Tarantino play with some of the more sexploitative colors of the grindhouse palette. (Maybe he did in the extended cut, I haven't seen it.) I think his spin on that end of things would have been something to see.
post #38 of 85
Thread Starter 
Tarantino doesn't do Sex, his characters talk about it but we've only seen one sex act in all of his films and even that is a really tame punctuation to a joke. I suppose you could class the rape in Pulp Fiction, but that's suggested more than anything else.
post #39 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Tarantino doesn't do Sex, his characters talk about it but we've only seen one sex act in all of his films
Good point. Probably why I'd like to see his take on it, especially in that Grindhouse milieu. Sort of a "while I'm here" kind of thing. But I'm not even talking sex, especially, just the exploitation of the female form that was part and parcel of the grindhouse aesthetic. (and I'm not counting Jungle Julia's leg flying down the blacktop.)
post #40 of 85
I'd rather not see a Tarantino sex scene. Uma Thurman's feet jerking off Harvey Keitel as he watches a Rudy Ray Moore flick is not my idea of a good time.
post #41 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Tarantino doesn't do Sex, his characters talk about it but we've only seen one sex act in all of his films and even that is a really tame punctuation to a joke. I suppose you could class the rape in Pulp Fiction, but that's suggested more than anything else.
No memory of the quickie in JACKIE BROWN? I don't need a love scene, just some exploitation. A bare breast. A GRINDHOUSE staple. There were several girls in DEATHPROOF and not a single one exposed. Tarantino wasn't as dedicated to the aesthetic as he could have been. I'm not a big fan of Eli Roth (but I did love the Thanksgiving trailer) or Zombie as directors, but they would have delivered that much.

And yeah, his foot fetish doesn't count.
post #42 of 85
Thread Starter 
I was talking about the quickie when I said a pretty tame punctuation to a joke.

I'm not counting Butch and Fabienne, because y'know it's not a sex scene.
post #43 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I was talking about the quickie when I said a pretty tame punctuation to a joke.
Gotcha.
post #44 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
I believe I mentioned boobies, and no one agrees? I thought I was in the GRINDHOUSE thread.
I'm with ya! I could have went for some Vanessa Ferlito nudity (not Winstead, or else I would have broken into uncontrollable masterbation in the middle of the theatre. this is typically frowned upon.)

I just got the Grindhouse: The Sleaze-filled Saga of an Exploitation Double Feature book this week and it's really making me want to go back and watch the movies, but I'm holding out buying them till the box set. Not only is it filled with neat stuff like all the poster art, behind the scenes "how they did the cgi" type coverage, lots of writing from RR and QT, short blurbs from most of the cast.. but it's also got the scripts to Death Proof and Planet Terror, as well as Thanksgiving and Machete, which I thought was pretty cool.

Money well spent in my eyes.
post #45 of 85
You sure that one has the Death Proof script?
post #46 of 85
Shit. You are correct.. I am a Liar McLiarson.

No DP script, sadly. I read a few pages of Planet Terror's then started flipping through the rest of the book quickly to see what else was in it; I guess hitting the other scripts right after the Death Proof section formulated false facts in my mind.
post #47 of 85
The screenplay for Death Proof is a seperate book. I've seen it on shelves at Barnes & Noble. Shame it isn't included in the book Trejo bought.
post #48 of 85
This week, I learned from my Tivo that four fake trailers followed by Death Proof is a pretty good cut of Grindhouse as well. The Rob Zombie trailer really does work fine until all the goddamn name-dropping starts.

Death Proof, on repeat viewings, really feels as if it has some sort of history as drive-in relic - retitled, patched together from surviving prints of varying quality. The film feels as if it comes from a world where it was recut about six times and released in as many incarnations, like an Al Adamson biker flick. Certain scenes are spliced and scratched way more than others, reeking of distributor tampering, and the second half of DP seems to be struck from a different print than the first half. I love that.
post #49 of 85
From Rob Zombie's blog:

Quote:
"Werewolf Women of the SS is back! This time it's back as a comic book series! The wacky exploits of Commandant Hess, Lt. Boorman, Von Strasser Eva and Gretchen Krupp, Fu Manchu and even Hiltler will be coming you way. Everything you ever wanted to know about Project Pure Wolf but were afraid to ask!"
post #50 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Death Proof, on repeat viewings, really feels as if it has some sort of history as drive-in relic - retitled, patched together from surviving prints of varying quality. The film feels as if it comes from a world where it was recut about six times and released in as many incarnations, like an Al Adamson biker flick. Certain scenes are spliced and scratched way more than others, reeking of distributor tampering, and the second half of DP seems to be struck from a different print than the first half. I love that.
"So you must be--must be--so YOU must be the infamous Butterfly!"

My geeky side absolutely loves that aspect of the film. While I never really expected mainstream audiences to "get" the brilliance of Grindhouse, its box office failure was heartbreaking. In a perfect world they'd do one of these a year.
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