Casino (1995)

This is a movie that I've been surprised to hear very negative comments on from time to time (here!). It wouldn't shock me that much to see it on the "Wrong" list, just from the mentions I've caught here and there.

They'd be fucking wrong, of course- but it could happen.

James Woods is in top form in Casino, especially when he's arguing with the little girl. "I WILL SMACK YOUR MOUTH"

It's a terrific movie, but Goodfellas is better and Casino feels too much like Goodfellas Redux at times.

If CASINO is GOODFELLAS REDUX, what the fuck does that make THE DEPARTED?

Diet GOODFELLAS?

Renn, to be perfectly honest, if anyone at CHUD has the gall to say that its terrible.....fuck 'em.

I mean, it seems we park our cars in the same garage regarding CASINO. Hell, I don't think Scorsese has made a movie as good of that quality since then...and I liked THE AVIATOR, parts of GANGS OF NEW YORK, THE DEPARTED, and even goddamn KUNDUN.

It makes it damn brilliant is what it makes it.

Count me in the "Wrong" camp on this one I guess. Sharon Stone is awful (Oscar worthy? HOW?), De Niro is just kind of there, appearing almost as disinterested as myself, it's poorly paced and far too long. The only thing that's worthwhile in my opinion is Pesci.

I'm interested in the story being told, but the book did that for me. I don't need to ever watch this movie again.

Yeah, that was an awesome monologue as well. "Before you know it, you have two holes to dig. You could be out there all fuckin night!"

You mean the same book that was written after the screenplay?

Agreed, The Departed doesn't stack together particularly neatly with the Goodfellas. Completely different narrative takes on completely different kinds of gangsters.

As for Casino, I love it.

For a while, I held it in higher regard than Goodfellas but that was due to my love of Vegas and gambling. Once I had taken in Scorsese more completley and weighed things against each other, a few of the flaws that Casino does possess became clear to me. Goodfellas and Casino each have an interesting style where every scene almost comes across as an individual anecdote that serves a greater story. Goodfellas hops around more but does a more complete job of conveying this universe that these gangsters live in. Casino, while still retaining that anecdotal style, actually presents a more linear story (one event affecting the next, each after the other) but it conveys a far more narrow look at this little pocket of organized crime than does Goodfellas.

The jumps out of Vegas to "back home" and the overall narration do less to serve and enhance the story as much as they are clunky expositions of it. The overall feeling is a movie that is more straightforward, but less tight.

It's much how I felt about NCFOM Vs. Blood. One is a perfectly engineered machine, a beautiful narrative where every element is there by design, where the other is more experimental and jumpy - perhaps more viscerally and emotionally striking, but it isn't quite a masterpiece.

Goodfellas is nearly perfect, everything that happens and every scene serves a greater whole. Casino is excellent, but it just simply isn't as tight and well-oiled as it's earlier partner.

EDIT: Modified to not ruin the post's ending.

Love the non-linear flow of your post Renn.

The head being crushed in the vice and the final beatings by baseball bat, are some of the most brutal death scenes I've ever seen.

I love this film and consider it to be top-notch Scorsese. Yeah, it does feel a little similar to Goodfellas, but the exploration of Vegas adds something new.

It contributes to my overall well-oiled narrative, cocksucker!

EDIT: That smiley thing.

EDIT: Shit Jakespeare, that was fucked up! 'the hell did that happen?

Damn it Renn, you just had to take away all that made your post unique didn't you? CONFORMIST!

black ass.



Jakespeare, I'm sick of your shit. Why don't you kiss my

like it

That's more

I'm not a fan, either. Those last 40 minutes or so where it is scene after scene of Deniro and Stone screaming at each other really got on my nerves.
Everthing here was covered better in Goodfellas, and any average history-of-Vegas doc on The History Channel.

I think it would have been better received if it wasn't released so close to Goodfellas.

I thought Stone was great in it.

It's been said before, but this movie has a lot of comedians in straight roles scattered around. Kind of odd, even if Vegas was the main turf for some of them.

Why though? She's great at playing the bitchy over the top harpy? Or do you see something in the character that those of us who hate it (all of what, two of us in here?) don't?

Pesci's forced Chicago accent in Casino was really irritating. I own and appreciate the film, but it doesn't enjoy the longevity that most of Scorcese's other works do.

I liked it better then Ratty did, but agree that the endless fights between De Niro and Stone, and the heavy emphasis in the last half on the disintegration of De Niro's marraige slow down the film considerably.
It's not that De Niro and Stone are bad..both are very good, it is just that their yelling at each other gets boring after a while.
A good film, Pesci's narration is wonderful, but not one of Scorsese's best.

It's a very good movie, but Scorsese has many other movies I like more.

I love the scene where James Woods leaves the restaurant knowing he's about to get his ass kicked.

One should not forget the soundtrack in this one. As in most of his pictures Scorcese uses the score to utter perfection.

Point in case: "House of the rising Sun" while all the loose ends are tied up.

Yet another movie added to the queue. Here's hoping that vice scene isn't too brutal to watch.

I don't think she was "Oscar worthy" or anything(whatever that term even means anymore considering some of their judgment), but that was the best acting I'd ever seen from her. She's good. No one blew her off the screen. Amazing, considering the company she was in(I'm looking at you, Rickles).

Or, like you said, it could just be she's really good at playing a bitch. I don't think she was over the top, especially since she was drugged to hell in a lot of those screaming scenes as I recall.

*edit- As I recall Scorsese made that scene way more gruesome than he actually wanted it, knowing the MPAA would make him cut it down no matter what. I seem to remember he had a shot of (invisotext)the guy's eyeball actually popping out that he cut to satisfy the MPAA. I can't remember where I read that, am I imagining it?

A fine movie, but, unlike most Scorsese, I don't ever feel the need to revisit it. I don't think it's entirely memorable as a whole, but there are some phenomenal moments in it. Watching that "House of the Rising Sun" youtube clip just now reminded me of how great some of this movie is, yet how most of it really isn't.

As already mentioned, Woods really knocks his scummy two-bit con-artist role out of the park, while Pesci treads old and tired ground and Deniro just looks old and tired. This was the first Scorsese I caught in the theater and I remember being blown away when I saw it. Many people walked out of the theater during the vice-grip scene, and a few more during the bat-beating in the corn field. That's one of the only scenes in a movie, by the way, to make me feel physically ill. I still can't watch it without cringing.

The violence in Casino has never bothered me, and I'm not particularly desensitized. I think I tend to be more susceptible to violence involving cutting and slicing though.

Watched this on USA last night and fell in love again.

The censor-dubbing is absolutely atrocious, especially due to the volume of stuff to censor, but the absolutely amazing craft was still my focus.

This still feels like it should come before Goodfellas in Marty's oeuvre. Scorcese seems to be more experimental in Casino, where as Goodfellas employs most of the same Marty quirks just in a more refined manner. Odd.

I love this movie. Watch it way more often than Goodfellas. I recogonize the flaws, and from a technical perspective Goodfellas is the better film, but Casino has a soul to it (for want of a better word). And I hate Vegas!

I've read about this practice in general terms. I don't know which specific film or films that Scorcese hoodwinked the MPAA, but I do know that he has made scenes more gruesome than he wants in order to be able to cut it down to what he does want. Tricky, that Scorcese. I love stories like that.

I love CASINO & GOODFELLAS. But still think the first of his crime trilogy, MEAN STREETS is best. (No one ever seems to talk about it anymore) DeNiro's Johnny Boy's slo-mo intro to strains of Jumpin' Jack Flash (and the look on Keitel's face) is everthing I love about Scorsese in a nutshell.

Watching this right now. Holy shit, it still cooks. Think i love it more than Goodfellas. <Blasphemy!>

Banks started a thread about Cameron's relationship with women. I wonder about Scorsese. Lorraine Bracco and Sharon Stone are some truly nagging, irritating broads! (Not to mention Sandra Bernhard) Stone is almost emasculating.

DeNiro is fantastic. Along with Ronin, one of his final interesting performances, as well as the last time he came across authentic.

You gotta love James Woods in sleaze-o mode! What an asshole!

Once again, the use of rock n' roll as storytelling tool is second to none. (Choice of Jeff Beck Group's "I Ain't Superstitious" a particular favorite cue)

One thing that distract me in this movie. The insanely high shirt collars the mafiosos wear.

The edited TV version of this movie is surprisingly watchable and that is pretty much the only time I revisit it. It's just Goodfellas meets the origin of Las Vegas. The mob presence in early Vegas seems surprisingly under utilized in organized crime films. I suppose Departed does for the Boston Irish mob what Casino does for the mafia in Vegas.

I'm not really a fan of this. It's good, but it drags on too long and it's just not very memorable.

I could watch a whole movie about James Woods' character though.

Goodfellas is the greatest film in the history of the universe.

That being said, I like Casino but it falls far short of Goodfellas. I can never enjoy it because I am always distracted by what I feel are Scorsese's obvious attempts to mimic stylistic choices he developed in Goodfellas, which were fascinating at the time because they were original, whereas here they are a retread:

Copacabana stedicam vs Moneyguy stedicam
Layla vs House of the Rising Sun
The use of multiple characters narrating
Pesci playing the same role

Boogie Nights is also Goodfellas Redux but it feels more authentic Scorsese than Casino IMHO, because of the love PTA obviously has for his characters, whereas Casino feels to me like an excuse for Marty to flex the muscles he built crafting Goodfellas.

I agree with nearly everything you said, but keep 'House of the Rising Sun' out of this, motherfucker.

How harrowing is the death scene of Pesci and his brother? Damn.

Understand considering Goodfellas better than Casino. That's the general critical and popular consensus. But Boogie Nights? No way!

Talk about a filmmaker flexing his muscles-it seems to me PTA was trying too hard to prove he could bench as much as Scorsese and QT.



***If Goodfellas is Scorsese's Let It Bleed. Casino may turn out to be Marty's Exile on Main Street. Ambitious, excessive, and undeniably flawed. From the opening moments on, it's rocks off-he rips this joint, we're the tumbling dice in this casino boogie. By the end, all down the line, torn and frayed, happy like DeNiro, a soul survivor (sorry).

Do we need to start the official Boogie Nights v. Casino thread?

I fall on Hill's side. Boogie Nights is fresh, alive, and so well-made. Casino feels like Scorsese falling back on old tricks, becoming lazy.

Boogie Nights was PT trying to prove he could bench with Scorsese and Q.T. and he proved it. There Will Be Blood arguably proves he can sit neck and neck with the former and beat out the latter but that's another argument.

I think Pescis arc is much more fleshed out and far more hilarious in this than in Goodfellas, actually I find Casino a rather funny movie.

Also I didn't realize until when I watched it last week that Dick Smothers was the governor.

Also the Saul Bass credits are just brilliance.

Love the song, hate the usage in Casino. Trying too hard to emulate the Layla scene.

But combined with the fantastic script and acting, it works because it's genuine. Just like nobody complained that Marty's style in Goodfellas was ripping off Truffaut/Godard, because it was genuine. But I always felt Casino was ripping off Goodfellas in a transparently lazy manner. Plus Scorsese has never filmed a scene as masterful as the firecracker scene imho.

If you want to talk about a director trying too hard to prove he could bench as much as Scorsese, look at Demme's Blow, it's almost embarrassing to watch.

I actually defended Casino against these arguments when it first came out, because I wanted to love it, much like Goodfellas... but over time I've lost a lot of admiration for it, it just doesn't feel very original or fresh, whereas the energy in Goodfellas/Boogie Nights is infectious.

Yeah, good call on Blow. I was dazzled by it during its theatrical run. It sucked me in and i thought it was great. Then I bought the SE about five yrs ago and watched it again...ouch!

We will have to agree to disagree on Casino though. <you're wrong!>

Nobody's perfect.

But, but...imdb has it ranked higher!

Another flick where Deniro accuses Pesci of f**king his wife.

Pesci and Stone? Really? What an amazing little bastard.

Well Stone's character was a whore and all.