The Olympic Torch

China doesn't give a fuck.

Against China. But extinguishing in other countries as well won't help. It takes 5 minutes and everything is back on track.
Hence, China doesn't give a fuck.

It's too big of an event and it will get massive worldwide coverage. China will benefit immensely from it.

This has been a total disgrace. From picking China as a host, to the behavior of the protesters it's been embarrassing all around. Fuck the IOC, fuck China, fuck Tibet and fuck the bored westerners aching for a cause to prove they care.

If I thought the protesters were achieving their objective (presumably to direct more attention/political pressure on China), then maybe I'd be okay with this approach. I just think the attention is all on their tactics and behavior, and not their cause.

Some days, I think it'd be great if nations boycotted the Olympics. Other days I think about the athletes, who of course have dedicated years to reaching a competitive level where they can go to the Olympics, and how denying them that chance seems really cruel. Then there are the days when I think, "Jesus, it's just a freakin' sporting event, and for the hosting country it's more about making money than anything else." So I'm somewhat conflicted.

If anyone really gave a shit about the Olympics this wouldn't have happened. Not to sound too pretentious but in ancient Greece the Olympics weren't a celebration of peace. Peace was a celebration of the Olympics. They were above each city state's interests.

That's what angers me the most. The people bemoaning China organizing the Olympics as if it's a sacrilege and an insult to the "Olympic Ideal", as if there is such a thing left, while at the same time attacking the very symbol of what they're claiming to care about.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that my own opinion of the Olympics is more than a little biased due to the way Atlanta and Athens handled the Olympics in 1996. I was attending the University of Georgia at the time, and watching Athens change into Corporate Coca-Cola Land was pretty irritating. Not that I thought Athens was particularly sacred or anything, but it just seemed that all the focus was directed at the sponsors, not toward the sports or athletes. I just found the whole event to be filled with hypocrisy.

Favorite Athens Olympics story: In preparation for the Olympics events, the city of Athens built a new Civic Center auditorium. In front of the building they erected a statue of Athena, the patron goddess of the sister city, Athens Greece. Then some folks from Coca-Cola inflated these two giant Coke bottles on either side of the statue. Each bottle was almost twice as tall as the statue, so now Athena looked like the Oracle of Delphi dwarfed by Coca-Cola columns. That about sums it up: the symbol of Athens in the shadow of a Coca-Cola commercial. Later on, the bottles were moved to a new location. Turns out someone kept sneaking up on them at night to puncture them repeatedly. Ah, simpler times.

Oddly enough with all the shit going down because of this olympics. It's nothing compared to what's gone on previously.

There was this story on NPR about the hisory of the games and really how political they are surrounding them. It's just been quiet the past couple of games. That and no one really giving a crap about the Winter games.

I'm sort of torn on this. On the one hand, China definitely needs to be held accountable for its actions and policies, and having major countries not participate in the Games would certainly be a blow to the economic boon the Olympics usually are. On the other hand, some of these athletes have waited years for what might be their one opportunity to compete in the Games, and it seems a shame to take that away as part of a protest that China will likely just shrug off anyway. Plus, some of that Olympic money has got to filter down to the business near the venues, which can only be good for the people. Besides, what did more good in 1936 -- not going to the Olympics to protest Hitler's policies or Jesse Owens rubbing Hitler's nose in them?

As for the torch bearers, they've got nothing to do with China. Let the protestors line the route and wave their banners and chant all they want. But when they go after a guy in a wheelchair, that really blurs the lines for me.

That is an extremely embarrassing story. I wish I could buy whoever was sabotaging this a drink.

I said this in the other thread, but I'm kind of an idealist when it comes to the Olympics, and I think in this case, we should be boycotting. I do feel like China has gone back on the promises they made and that in some cases, it's only gotten worse. So we should boycott at least the opening ceremonies. On the other hand...you're right, it's China. They don't give a fuck.

There was an article I read that sort of addressed your first point in talking about how one of the biggest things that hurt apartheid South Africa that actually affected them was banning them from international sporting events. The quote was "We didn't mind so much about the sanctions, but we really minded about the cricket."

Also, if I remember correctly, the '36 Olympics came out pretty good for Germany at the time in the press. Hitler looked like an ass, but the nation didn't.

China does give a fuck, since the Games were supposed to be a PR boost, modern China as a global débutante.

Anyway, hoping that the Games would bring human rights to the Chinese was foolish from the get-go. From my experience living in an Olympic city, during the games human rights take a back seat to security and ensuring the participants have a great time.

Of course, especially after the events in Munich in '72.

What the fuck are you on about? Seriously, are you mad because people are protesting? Are you mad because of what China is doing in Tibet? Are you mad that people seem to be concerned about what's happening in Tibet? Are you mad at westerners for trying to care about the rest of the world? Or are you simply mad because you have to keep hearing about it?

And, honestly, fuck Tibet? For what?

Someone write an op-ed piece and call it "What if China Threw an Olympics and Nobody Came?"

Yeah, I was kinda taken aback by that response too. Fuck Tibet for getting massacred, I guess?

I don't get it.

Fuck Tibet as a cause du jour. It's in right now to "care" about Tibet. Let's see how many of those shedding crocodile tears about Tibet will keep up the pressure on China 24 hours after the Olympics are over. Where was all this indignation when China was getting chosen as a host?

The only ones that will get hurt will be the Tibetan people who will mistakenly get their hopes up and the tiny morsel of value the Olympics still have.

I distinctly recall there was a lot of people upset over China being selected for that exact reason (plus a great many others). Certainly in a number of the newspapers and magazines that I read.

And I'm not sure if you know about the Milarepa Fund that has been around for almost fifteen years. Or the first Free Tibet concert in 1996*. For a number of us it's not a cause du jour it's just that it's starting to gain momentum around the world due to what's happening currently. I'm sorry if you seem to think everyone who is talking about it or doing something about it is doing strictly because it's trendy. Maybe some of these people actually have been fighting quietly for years and are finally gaining media notoriety for it.

*Yes, it's a drop in the bucket compared to how long Tiebtans have been fighting but it's a lot more then a cause du jour.

For the people in it for the long run I have nothing but respect. The world needs more of them. I have just seen this show far too many times both as an outsider and a participant.

I wish Evil Superman was real. He'd blow that fucker out.

Oh, in 20 years or so when China owns the United States, we'll all look back at this and laugh!

I really think this *is* helping draw attention to Tibet, Falun Gong, and China's human rights abuses. The media is actually paying attention to this story for a change. It's damaging their PR and, yes, adversely affecting their bottom line. How much so, and what affect it's going to have, is a big question, but I really think this is a bigger deal than a protest rally that the news cycle buries the next day. There is a real potential here to put pressure on China if the other countries can muster up the political will.

I can completely understand being pissed off at trend-mongers who are jumping on a fashionable bandwagon, but that's more of a problem with our culture's current attention span than anything specific that's happening. The protestors are right to protest, the global attention is a good thing, and the potential is there to do some good, even if there's only a short window of opportunity. I'll join in bitching if it all comes to nothing, but right now I think the attention is a good thing. People are seeing the Chinese behave brutally and make absolutely retarded statements about how the Dalai Lama is a pan-global criminal mastermind, or whatever, instead of just hearing vague stories about human rights abuses. I'd like to say that no one is hearing this and taking China's side, though a certain message board poster makes that impossible. Still, I've got to assume he's a very, very tiny minority.

You guys should also boycott the 2010 Olympics 'cause of the mad cow and the softwood lumber disputes.

Beta Brendan, here's a tip: If you have to google a joke, it's probably not funny.

You mean we're well on our way to a Serenity future and not a Cowboy Bebop future? Dammit.

Speak for yourself. Us Canucks love that shit.

People have been seeing that for years, I don't know that hanging from a bridge with some banners or throwing water on a torch is going to change anything. I don't think that the general global populace cares about this issue.

China has been fucked, and has been fucking people, for a long time now. Nothing will change as a result of this protest. Maybe if during the games China drops a bomb on the stadium, people might wake up, otherwise I doubt it.

But but... I didn't Google it...

it's alright. We all know I'm an embarrassment and people think low of me and you're not the only one who feels this way.

[Whedon nerd]Technically, China and the U.S. were allies in the Firefly universe, although it was more China and the West. One wasn't below the other. The "Alliance"'s full name was the Anglo-Sino Alliance.[/Whedon nerd]

^ And that makes this entire thread worthwhile.

So no chance of a Bebop unvierse then? [Hangs head ala Butters] Aww Hamburgers [/Hangs head ala Butters]

It's actually funny, like Ryan pointed out. I get that you might not know about the lumber wood, but the mad cow? Really? That's like 5 years ago, and every mad cow outbreak was all over the news.

And about China owning us, that's not right. At worse, an American bloc will emerge just like Europe did. Well have 2 to 3 superpowers coming into play by the next 20 years.

And let's be honest here: China made some concessions for the Olympics.

They originally wanted to use a different gasoline-soaked political prisoner as the Olympic Torch for each leg of the run.

Why are we all bitching against them again?

They're yellow with slanted eyes. Can't trust them. *hrm*

Not to mention that because they're hosting the games the entire cost came out a $1.98 because of their low labor costs.

And beside, China has to pay for what they did at Pearl Harbor.

Plus they made everything out of lead so there's some money saved there.

I'm willing to forgive a lot of China's sins as long as they keep making with the General Tso chicken.

If that well runs dry, however, there will be hell to pay.

Can't we just rally all this frustration we have against China into the games themselves. I mean, lets out pole vault them and blame their crummy pole vaulting skills on their oppressive attitude. The road to peace is paved with athletes yelling BOYAAAHH in your face.

I thought it was the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor? You're telling me that Senator Blutarsky was incorrect?

They will be called Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia. Doubleplusgood.

Seriously? Shit, I never liked the taste of gin.

No, they haven't been seeing it for years. Most people hear, occasionally, that China perpetrates human rights abuses and a certain level of censorship, but that's it. It's vague and detatched. This whole incident is putting specific examples of bad behaviour by China on the front pages, in people's faces. How often do you get to read the Chinese government official doublespeak quoted in newspaper articles? It only makes them look dumb, which helps the issue connect with people. Which may help the general global populace to care about the issue. That's the point.

Fuck Tibet and the stupid hippies that don't think the Dali Lama doesn't want to be an autocrat sent by God again.

The Olympics are turning into a huge disaster for China. In addition to the abuses in Tibet, the horrible pollution in Beijing may lead to some events being moved to locations where humans can breath, the press is investigating living conditions (horrible) for the populace, and serious questions about China's economic, social and poltical prospects are being asked....outside of China of course.

Okay, that made me laugh way harder then it should have.

Exactly. I don't know why anybody outside of China would be annoyed by bringing more attention to this issue. If people don't care, exposing it makes it more likely that they will care. The whole thing as has been said before, is backfiring on the Chinese.

I had another conversation with a Chinese co-worker last week about this, and he was pretty adamant that the whole thing is a conspiracy by Western media to make China look bad. This guy has been living in the US for quite some time, but still thinks the whole situation in Tibet is being blown out of proportion. He also thinks the Tibetans are likely to attempt a terrorist attack during the Olympics.

That's how good the Chinese propaganda machine is on their populace.