The Olympic Torch - Page 2

I have to wonder, first of all...Tibetian Terrorists have what for weapons? Mountains?

Although the idea of Gurkha terrorists should strike fear into any opposition....

Question.....are the Chinese Machivellian enough to stage a terrorist attack before the games to swing sympathy towards them and against the "Tibetian Terrorists"?

Duh. What do you think protesting was ever about? Having no one pay attention to what you're saying?

They're planning on small controlled bursts of Ohm chants...very dangerous.

As cool as that would be Gurkhas are kind of the anti-terrorists. They attack quietly and stealthily and usually claim no responsibility.

They'd be kinda dumb to do so. Most people would see right through that sort of thing.

Did anyone protest the 1936 games in Berlin?....

Yep. There was actually talk of the US boycotting the games as they didn't want to make it seem like the supported the Nazi party.

Part of the difference between Germany and China is that they Olympics were awarded to Germany before the Nationalist Socialist party took office.

Six-demon bags.

Well, many here have probably worked out my position on the Chinese Communist Party and the obscene gesture that is them getting the Olympics, so Im all for the protesting of the flame.

...and Im sorry but I really feel the "and then I think of those poor widdle athletes and all the trouble they've gone to" argument to somehow balance out the argument of boycotting the games or even the opening ceremony to be moral equivilancy of the highest order.

To compare the plight of some athlete who's spent their life being pampered and spoiled because they can run faster or jump higher than others not being able to go to a single olympic games with the plight of a dissedent in China or Tibet who's living with the risk of arrest and internment in a gulag or death for daring to ask for better rights and conditions for their fellow countrymen is fucking obscene.

I'd also argue against the whole "sporting sanctions don't work" argument being bandied about as well. I remember vividly growing up in the eighties with the knowledge that South Africa wasn't allowed to compete against us aussies in sport (most importantly the cricket and rugby union) - and I also remember that helped give me an awareness of apartheid and what it meant at a much earlier age than I would have otherwise. I also remember that that seemed to have more of an effect on the country than any kind of economic sanctions I may have heard about at the time. This was also born out when I lived in London almost a decade ago and had many South African mates. To a man they said that the economic sanctions felt more symbolic than anything else, but not being able to compete in the cricket or rugby world cups killed them as a nation psychologically.

You know, Rain Dog, you say you're sorry, but I get the feeling you aren't sorry at all.

When I look at the Olympics from the athlete's point of view, I can't help but feel empathy toward them. The athletes weren't the ones who decided where to hold the Olympics. The geographical location of the games isn't as important as the event itself. For many, this is their dream (and despite your assertions, not all of them live a pampered lifestyle). Now I don't personally identify with that dream, as the closest to sports I usually get is sitting in the stands at Turner Field, but at the same time I can imagine how I'd feel if I had dedicated countless hours to competing in the Olympics and then discover that I can't do it. Not because of my own failings, which would be bad enough, but because of a decision made by others to make a political statement.

Do I think that political statement is important? Yes. Do I think it's more important than any one individual's dream? Yup. Even if you take all the athletes as a collective and think of it that way, I still think the statement is more important. But I don't freakin' dismiss the dreams and feelings those people have like you seem to do. It's not THEIR fault the IOC awarded China the games. They just want to compete.

That was what I was getting at earlier, not trying to compare the athletes to the dissidents.

Yeah, I have conflicting feelings about the whole situation, even without the issue of China. From a top-down perspective, I hate the Olympics. I hate the commercialism, the way some nations seem to interpret an athlete's victory as some sort of indication they're superior to everyone else, the hypocrisy, etc. But from a bottom-up perspective, looking at the athletes who just want to push themselves to the best of their abilities, that's something I admire. I might not actually care about sports, but the idea of someone with a lot of drive working very hard to accomplish a dream, that's something I can get behind. Well, you know, as long as that dream doesn't involve stuff like genocide or boy bands. (Note: I do NOT equate genocide with boy bands. Boy bands are way worse).

Edited to add that bit about China, since all I talk about here are the Olympics themselves.

Having lived through the "Miracle on Ice" back in 1980, I'd have to say you can't underestimate the effect of the Olympics on a nation's psyche. Granted, today we don't have the Cold War dynamic that basically turned the Olympics into an East vs. West affair for almost 50 years, so it might be a little hard to comprehend, but this country was as down as a country could be before that hockey game, and the outpouring of emotion in the wake of the victory over the Soviets had a genuine sense of reaffirmation, of hope. Maybe the whole affair, and we as spectators, have gotten too jaded for that kind of thing to ever happen again, but look at the examples mentioned here of how hard South Africa took not being able to compete. It might be an exercise in corporate sponsorship to us, but there's still plenty of people to whom means a great deal more.

I hear the torch is coming to Buenos Aires. Tati, get ready for some hilarity!

I haven't seen the news coverage from the San Francisco event. I can tell you that I saw a bunch of teenagers running around with Guy Fawkes masks...excuse me, V for Vendetta masks, and Free Tibet Flags and Banners. Lots of Bikers carrying huge banners as well.

They had so many protesters that the route for the torch was moved 1 mile away. I picture pedestrians walking down the street when suddenly this hot Asian woman runs by carrying a torch.

Well said. This is basically the same point I was trying to make a while back in the FREE TIBET thread. I look at the Olympics as many countries coming together and sharing sports, one of the few things that all countries have in common. And throughout the years the Olympics have brought many issues to light ( Jesse Owens in Germany, John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 68, Miracle on Ice ) without boycotting them.

Age old protest problem that will never be solved. I guarantee to you that 90% of the people who read the story today know why the protest is happening.

I look at the Olympics as a retarded fucking corporate wankjob for people who pretend to be interested in running 100m every four years.

Or the 5000m for some Kenyans.

For some reason, news coverage of the torch's trip around the world reminds me of Guns and Roses "Use Your Illusion" tour.

This makes my fucking blood boil:

So let me get this straight, Chinese-Australians and Chines nationals are going to exercise a freedom of expression theyre not even given in China to protest people protesting the Chinese Government.

My head would explode if it wasn't vibrtating with rage. The level of unrecognised irony is incredible.

The thing is, China does give a fuck about the protests; demonstrations, Tibet, pollution, and so on — these things are both embarassing and enraging for China and her government. Remember, for China — and to some extent the "world" — this is a sort of coming-out party; when she steps out of the isolationist closet and into the global dialogue. So losing face at the get-go is not something Chinese institutions are taking lightly.

Moreover, the protests are hardening the populist line in China; protests are already "known" as CIA sponsored insults towards the nation. Another example of Western imperialists putting the boots on China as she rises out of the water. Have you seen the image of that Chinese para-olympian zealously clutching the torch? and her thoughts on the Western protestors? She "hates" them: no questioning their motives; no anger over the rely interruption; not a peep about letting the torch run it's course, and certainly not any grudging acceptance. Just an "I hate them". And I think that sums up populist Chinese sentiment.

As for Tibet: the Han Chinese regard a lot of the minorities in the empire as savages who require ruling. Tibetans — the baby seals of international politics — are among these savages. Yes the situation is complex, but it boils down to cultural genocide, and unfortunately for the Hans, this one isn't slipping under the international political radar.