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The Golden Compass

post #1 of 38
4/27/08 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
I've never read the books, so I can't say for sure, but everything about this movie seems watered down and truncated from what may have been a much better, darker story on paper. There's a great little philosophical undercurrent here that I really like that it feels like New Line/Chris Weitz/whoever was way too cowardly to play with in earnest.

I can honestly say, should an extended cut happen, I'd be all over it. Considering the film did jack shit at the box office, not likely.

Also, the ending wants so bad to be The Fellowship of the Ring's ending. It's not. It's just fucking abrupt.
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post #2 of 38
4/27/08 at 11:07am
Actually, the ending you saw was the tacked on version. They've already had shot a different ending, in which Lyra meets up with Lord Asriel.

Spoilers below!

Now here's the kicker. Lord Asriel turns out to be one of the bad guys as well. He kills Roger to open a portal to another dimension (Remember his talks about Dust). In the end, Lyra denies both her parents and travels through the Portal for new adventures. Thus setting up the sequels.

Chris Weitz placed the tacked on ending because he felt that it would lead in to the sequels better. The Original ending (described above) was deemed to be too dark.

It's interesting to note that The Golden Compass has made over $370 million worldwide, despite its lackluster success in the US.

It's actually not too bad really. Hardly a masterpiece. But heavily watered down. I thought Nicole Kidman's Ms Coulter was an interesting creation (She has black hair in the books by the way. Think Catherine Zeta Jones.).

In fact, Ms Coulter takes a different turn in the third book of the series. Think Vader in Return of The Jedi (if you get my meaning).
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post #3 of 38
4/27/08 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
That original ending would've bumped the film up a few more points. It's still fairly annoying how Asriel disappears for 3/4 of the film, and we never see how he was able to set up a lab in enemy territory, but that would've helped, especially since it explains the main question I had by the end, which is why the hell Asriel would've hooked up with Coulter to begin with.

And yeah, the film's not out and out bad, per se. The focus is simply not where it needs to be for the vast majority of the runtime.
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post #4 of 38
4/27/08 at 11:31am
Asriel is an avowed enemy of The Magisterium. He managed to set up a Lab in the North Pole because he managed to cut a deal with the soldiers (Remember those who captured him?) by paying them off.

Why did Asriel hook up with Coulter? In the books, Asriel has an affair with Ms Coulter and kills her husband in a duel. They have a very strong love/hate relationship. In their own way, they both love Lyra.

In fact, If you read The Amber Spyglass (The third book), They both sacrifice their lives to save Lyra from The Magisterium.

Ms Coulter has always been an interesting character for me. She's a true villian and never denies it. Ready to switch sides at the turn of a hat. But the touching thing is that in the Books there're several scenes in which she shows true remorse and caring for Lyra. She really does love her daughter.
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post #5 of 38
4/27/08 at 3:44pm
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who likes this movie and looks forward to the longer director's cut. Especially after it's win over Transformers at the Oscars, I feel like The Golden Compass is unfairly maligned. There are a lot of things to like about it, especially that it takes place in a world where talking polar bears, witches, cowboys and dirigibles can exist.
It's sad that even after the Lord of the Rings series, New Line still didn't have any idea how to handle a movie like this, forcing a watered-down version into the theaters and doing such a terrible job marketing it. I think after it's initial domestic failure is forgotten, The Golden Compass will be seen as a flawed film but one that had higher aspirations than other generic kid films (alongside The Spiderwick Chronicles).
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post #6 of 38
4/29/08 at 12:46pm
If they bottled it regarding the religious subtexts in this film, then if they do make the sequels they will be unrecognisible.

For example, they kill 'God' in the 3rd book

Really cant see that happening in $150 million blockbuster
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post #7 of 38
4/29/08 at 10:27pm
Can we stop saying that God is killed in the 3rd book? It's more like he's released from his cage and he's so weak he just breaks apart from the wind. It's even by accident.
But yeah, I'm not sure how a greenlight was given and the religious aspects watered down, when I'm sure everyone must have known what was going to happen down the road.
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post #8 of 38
5/15/08 at 3:05am
Alright so I just rented this and I gotta say I actually enjoyed it. However the way the film moved, im a little confused. So lets make sure I have everything right.

So the majestry is trying to control people because they think they know whats best. They don't want people knowing about Dust and other worlds. And they need to seperate the kids from their pets/demons/soul because somehow the dust enters the demon and then somehow allows you to travel between worlds.

But what is dust? And why does the church care if we know there is other worlds? Also I would love to know some specifics on what religious parts were cut out?
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post #9 of 38
5/15/08 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
Alright so I just rented this and I gotta say I actually enjoyed it. However the way the film moved, im a little confused. So lets make sure I have everything right.

So the majestry is trying to control people because they think they know whats best. They don't want people knowing about Dust and other worlds. And they need to seperate the kids from their pets/demons/soul because somehow the dust enters the demon and then somehow allows you to travel between worlds.

But what is dust? And why does the church care if we know there is other worlds? Also I would love to know some specifics on what religious parts were cut out?
It's been some time since I've read the books, but Dust is, or has something to do with, original sin.
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post #10 of 38
5/15/08 at 3:22pm
I still am not re watching until a Directors Cut is given to us, you can just sense while watching that it was hacked to pieces because New Line was backed into a corner, unlike Amberson's though you know its still in existence. As many SFX people and preview people say at least an hour was cut and unlike POTC 3 this desperately needs that time back.
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post #11 of 38
5/15/08 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpel007 View Post
I still am not re watching until a Directors Cut is given to us, you can just sense while watching that it was hacked to pieces because New Line was backed into a corner, unlike Amberson's though you know its still in existence. As many SFX people and preview people say at least an hour was cut and unlike POTC 3 this desperately needs that time back.
Even listening to Weitz's explanations on the commentary about why they screwed with the structure (i.e. moving Bolvanger before the Bear Fight) doesn't sway me into thinking that it was a good move. I guess in addition to wanting a "happy" ending, New Line wanted the battle outside of Bolvanger to be the climax. Story-wise, New Line never gave this film a chance.
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post #12 of 38
5/18/08 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
But what is dust? And why does the church care if we know there is other worlds? Also I would love to know some specifics on what religious parts were cut out?
I probably won't be doing the books any justice, but from what I got out of it, Dust is a living matter that's created my conscious thought. It sort of keeps everything in balance, maintaining life, etc. The Magisterium is basically the Church. They realized that when a child reaches puberty, the Dust settles on them (which is why their Daemons settle). I suppose this has to do with someone discovering their own identity. The Magisterium linked this with original sin - Adam and Eve's falling from grace. So they've concluded that Dust is evil. And by cutting away kids' Daemons, they hope that they can prevent Dust from settling and thus, prevent kids from losing their innocence. Their are other aspects of Dust, such as how it creates other worlds. The Magisterium, which outwardly rejects the notion of Dust, also rejects the theory that other worlds exist because of its ties to Dust (but of course, they know both to exist).
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post #13 of 38
5/18/08 at 7:20pm
Thanks Shifty.
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post #14 of 38
9/10/08 at 3:27pm
I was surprised that I ended up enjoying this. I wish they had trusted the material a little more, but I thought the girl that played Lyra did a great job. I'll agree with what everyone has already said - I'd be interested in seeing the director's cut of this thing. I liked how they handled/rendered the deamons as well. The concern over the religious aspects in the material, which were removed or modified, seem to torpedo this movie. And it would have been a better movie had they left in the stuff that dumbasses were worried about. Hilarious. I also would have liked to see some of the harsher stuff kept in - a sadder outcome for the kid that was cut from his daemon. Anyway, too bad about this one. Could have made for an interesting series of flicks.
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post #15 of 38
9/10/08 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Also, the ending wants so bad to be The Fellowship of the Ring's ending. It's not. It's just fucking abrupt.
I'll say. I know it's a series, but I was kinda left asking "That's it? Where are they going?"

The film feels like it's keeping interesting things from me, and that frustrates me.
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post #16 of 38
9/10/08 at 4:37pm
I guess it kind of makes sense that they didn't want to end it with kid murder. But, considering how it did stateside, at least that would have brought more attention to it. The studio was scared of the material from the get. Surprised it ever got made - even in a neutered form.
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post #17 of 38
9/10/08 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
The film feels like it's keeping interesting things from me, and that frustrates me.
That's very well said. Exactly how I felt.
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post #18 of 38
9/10/08 at 5:01pm
I hated the piss out of this movie. To avoid getting my blood pressure all worked up again, I'll just repost my (newly unearthed!) thoughts from the Post-Release thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Yaw-fucking-awn. What a bore.

First off, these characters have no life to them. Everything is exposition, even up to the end. The climactic battle was a waste, and had no pulse. It's a bunch of people clashing, then some other people show up, then some other people show up, and HEY! the witches save the day! Except we don't know who the fuck the witches are. Or why they're involved with this mission to rescue a bunch of kids. Or why Eva Green shows up for three seconds throughout the film but we're supposed to be gloriously triumphant when she shows up at the end. And for that matter, why she's with the kids on the airship at the end.

And the whole movie has problems like that. Characters keep spouting off shit that ostensibly have something to do with the plot, but we as an audience are disconnected because we're not allowed to see and discover any of it on our own. The thing with the Compass is glossed over with so little fanfare that it's hard to believe why only Lyra can read it, since it takes her exactly five fucking seconds to figure it out. And why would the college professor give her The Most Valuable Object In The World knowing full well it was what Nicole Kidman was after? Wouldn't it be better within the walls of the college, where the Big Evil Church has no power? And why is Sam Elliot telling us how cool it is to be an "aironaut" instead of selling it to us visually? What's the big deal with the polar bear subplot? The bear fight was pretty awesome (the only action scene Weitz managed to competently pull off, and even then it still lacked more of a punch because there's little lead up to it), but who gives a shit about Ian McKellan becoming king of the Polar Bears? It has nothing to do with what the movie ends up being about, which is "Let's Rescue Annoying Child Actor #45".

And holy hell, what an awful ending. Did they go back and reshoot the scene where Lyra wonders out loud for no reason whatsoever about all the grand things they're going to do? Talk about mind numbingly insulting. It was seriously like the announcer at the end of a 60s Batman episode: "WILL Lyra reach her Uncle Father in time? HOW are our heroes going to defeat Evil Ms. Mother? DOES anyone else think Pig-Faced Kid is a poor substitute for Sean Astin? Tune in next week to see, same Bat-time, same Bat-station!"

Y'know, ever since Lord of the Rings studios have been trying like hell to kickstart their own trilogies. I've seen some doozies, but this takes the cake. The difference between this and, say, Riddick, is that I really don't give a fuck to see what would happen next. And that pisses me off, because the central story and the universe this takes place in seems like it could be awesome.
Yup. Still feel this way.
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post #19 of 38
9/10/08 at 5:26pm
Quote:
I'll say. I know it's a series, but I was kinda left asking "That's it? Where are they going?"

The film feels like it's keeping interesting things from me, and that frustrates me.
That's also exactly how I felt upon seeing it in the theater. I couldn't hate the movie because I knew of the trouble it went through. I didn't love it or like it because it was, as Greg said, a bit of a bore. But at the same time, I saw so much potential in the material.
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post #20 of 38
9/10/08 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
I hated the piss out of this movie. To avoid getting my blood pressure all worked up again, I'll just repost my (newly unearthed!) thoughts from the Post-Release thread:
And then you go on to list, more or less, the same problems I had with the book. I never saw the movie (didn't like the book and the trailers were underwhelming), but usually when I've read people say negative things about it they were complaining about the filmmaking specifically or, more often, the changes from the original material. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone talk about the movie when it sounded anything like the book I read.
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post #21 of 38
9/10/08 at 7:53pm
The funniest thing about this mess is how it just expects you to really give a shit about what's going on. The best example of this is John Faa's character introduction (Beard-o Pirateman). It's this big, grand reveal as the camera pushes on him as if the audience is supposed to be excited to see one of The Book That No One Read's most beloved characters. Even better, he just becomes a fucking boring character after that.

In all seriousness, that polar bear LOST HIS FUCKING JAW.
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post #22 of 38
9/10/08 at 7:59pm
Quote:
In all seriousness, that polar bear LOST HIS FUCKING JAW.
The one moment of the movie that made me feel ANYTHING!
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post #23 of 38
9/10/08 at 8:10pm
It's a hard movie to stick up for because it is a bit of a jumble. I think Weitz's director's cut, if ever released, will be a much better movie. What carried the movie for me was Lyra. I liked her character in the book (that no one reads? huh?) and I liked her in this. Almost every other character gets the short shrift unfortunately. If you read online what New Line cut out, a lot of it is character detail - much of Faa's storyline was kicked to the curb.
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post #24 of 38
9/10/08 at 8:12pm
I read all three books and found them uninvolving from a character point of view, but found the setting and ideas fascinating. The movie eviscerated the ideas, but kept the characters. That's why the whole thing fell apart.
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post #25 of 38
9/10/08 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post
It's a hard movie to stick up for because it is a bit of a jumble. I think Weitz's director's cut, if ever released, will be a much better movie. What carried the movie for me was Lyra. I liked her character in the book (that no one reads? huh?) and I liked her in this. Almost every other character gets the short shrift unfortunately. If you read online what New Line cut out, a lot of it is character detail - much of Faa's storyline was kicked to the curb.
Do you really expect most people in middle America, the people that probably contributed the most to the film's domestic gross, read the book? This movie probably had a 2-per screen average of people who actually read the book.

And yeah, Lyra and the girl that played her are one of the few bright spots in the movie. If her character didn't work, this thing wouldn't even be a movie anymore, it would be an instruction manual. And despite what happened to Faa's story arc, our introduction to that character is that push shot and then an entire scene where he says nothing and listens to another character spew exposition.

The really only great thing about this movie is that it proves that a studio's shitty cuts to a movie can tank said studio.
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post #26 of 38
9/10/08 at 11:04pm
Just saying it's a fairly popular book. Probably more popular in England, but pretty well known over here. Your clarified point is taken, but I was responding to your original phrasing.
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post #27 of 38
9/10/08 at 11:14pm
Gotcha.

Having a great September, by the way. Thanks for the wishes!
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post #28 of 38
9/10/08 at 11:23pm
The only thing that I remember about this is wondering how the polar bears get their armor on and Eva Green. Movie really could have used more Eva Green in it.
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post #29 of 38
9/10/08 at 11:50pm
I admit that the scene were the girl and ferret are being 'seperated' was pretty upsetting, but it's probably because cute little girls and cute little ferrets are automatically 75% more likely to eek a good god damn out of me when in danger.
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post #30 of 38
9/11/08 at 1:29am
The separation scene in Hell in the third book is even worse.
Man, thinking back on the books now, I'm getting bummed out all over again. What a huge missed opportunity for a few really fun movies. The ideas offered up in the books would have been such a great cinematic introduction to kids to fantasy, other than Harry Potter.
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post #31 of 38
9/11/08 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
Movie really could have used more Eva Green in it.
Many things could use more Eva Green. Including... my... pants party?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I admit that the scene were the girl and ferret are being 'seperated' was pretty upsetting, but it's probably because cute little girls and cute little ferrets are automatically 75% more likely to eek a good god damn out of me when in danger.
What if there was a fight between a cute little girl and a cute little ferret? Then what???
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post #32 of 38
9/11/08 at 1:23pm
Here are Christopher Lee and Derek Jacobi! Now they're gone! Bye!
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post #33 of 38
9/11/08 at 1:26pm
Is Christopher Lee ever not used like that, by the way? Poor guy.
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post #34 of 38
9/11/08 at 2:40pm
MISSION TO MOSCOW utilized him for many scenes of hi-jinks with Lassard and his goldfish. Fun was had by none.
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post #35 of 38
9/11/08 at 8:30pm
Man, I just love when Lassard is busy reading about goldfish in his little goldfish book.
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post #36 of 38
2/21/11 at 4:10am

Finally saw this earlier this year out of a sick curiosity and there being nothing else on Thai TV one night. As a huge fan of Pullmans series, what a bland boring mess this film is. Just a total waste of time money and effort on everyones part. If only someone competent like a Matthew Vaughn was given this film instead of one half of the American Pie brothers. Just awful. Everything wrong with a Hollywood adaptation of a wonderful challenging novel.

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post #37 of 38
2/21/11 at 8:16am

Hope someday we get a chance to see Weitz's movie, and not the studio tinkered version. Because, while jumbled, he obviously loves the material and tried pretty hard to put a good translation in theaters. I love the book, and didn't catch up with this until it hit DVD. But I thought he got some of it right. Especially Lyra. I think Weitz is far from a hack. But the experience he had making this movie seems to have ended his passion for flick making. Too bad.

 

I'm like a broken record in this thread.  

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post #38 of 38
2/21/11 at 3:27pm

I look forward to someone like the BBC getting to do a proper big budget series of the entire His Dark Materials some day personally. If they can do that for Narnia, surely they can eventually do it for the anti-Narnia.

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