The Killer (Dip huet seung hung, 1989)

This is easily my favorite Woo movie. Sure, Hard Boiled's action scenes have a higher body count and are larger in scale, but The Killer's feel like they actually matter, especially the final shootout in the church. It's not often that the outcome of a huge, violent shootout in an action flick can feel tragic.

Did you find the film locally I'm presuming? I cannot find a copy on Netflix or in any of my stores which sucks because I really badly want to see it.

Nice to know I'm not the only one.

I first heard of John Woo when I saw a Hard Target poster. It specificaly mentioned him and I had never heard of him, so I started to look around for other things he did. Eventually I got ahold of the laserdisc of The Killer and it blew me away, it had action just as cool as Hard Target and I actually gave a shit about the story. I thought Chun Yow Fat was the coolest motherfucker around.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one underwhelmed by A Better Tomorrow.

Hard Boiled is my favorite Woo though, the first time I saw it was a dubbed version and the guy doing Chow had an Australian accent, it was hilarious.

Hard Boiled is more fun. This is the better movie.

I agree completely.

I saw it several years back, and really liked it. I'm planning on seeing it again sometime soon.

I'm with Gittes...this is my absolute favorite John Woo flick, and one that I'm still waiting on for a good DVD release (I missed out on the Criterion release, and getting one off of Ebay is a bit out of my price range right now). It's brutal and beautiful all at once...like a ballet of violence. I know it's been said a million times before, but Chow Yun Fat is the epitome of cool in this movie, and his chemistry with Danny Lee is electric. The final shoot out in the church is flat out amazing, and (for better or worse) it really set a standard for all the action flicks that came after it. Just a great flick. Now if only Dragon Dynasty or whoever holds the rights could release a decent special edition, I'd be ecstatic.

This film still isn't available from Netflix. What's the deal?

I loved Hard Boiled, but I also found A Better Tomorrow to be underwhelming. I will add that the body count during the hospital shootout of Hard Boiled actually disturbed me a little. I guess I'm not as desensitized as I thought.

A Better Tomorrow is revered more for the stylistic imprint it brought to the Hong Kong industry still in love (rightly so) with the frenetic acrobatics of Jackie Chan and Yuen Wo Ping/Corey Yuen pictures like the In the Line Of Fire series and Tiger Cage than for its great shakes as an action picture. There's barely any action in it, but what is there has ingrained itself in virtually every single action picture made the world over since it was really discovered along with other Woo in the late 80s. That's why it's important (in tandem with the insane action-overload of Heroes Shed No Tears, Woo's Cannon-style war picture from the same year. But A Better Tomorrow had the style, the grace and the coolness of Melville -- perhaps a more important influence than even Peckinpah on his work).

The Killer is hard to beat as a piece of cinema -- Hard Boiled's action is astonishing and its technically a better picture than The Killer but it's story is a slight as Yes Madam's. But two pictures that rival it make the three best pictures Woo has put his considerable skills to:

A Better Tomorrow 2 is a kind of sentimental (and I mean mental) howl of stylistic/melodramatic excess that's by turns ridiculous and sublime and perhaps his true masterpiece

Bullet In The Head is a piece that's as unwieldy as it is incredibly ambitious, but its scope and the things it says about the very human relationships it establishes are leagues above the comparatively simplistic (yet still deeply enjoyable) cops 'n' robbers moral universe of The Killer and A Better Tomorrow. Its no less action-packed, but its drama feels extraordinarily real. Especially if, like me, you only ever saw the extended cut complete with ballet-of-cars finale.

The Killer is a great place to start with Woo and A Better Tomorrow really needs to be seen in the context of a nascent style. But Bullet In The Head is the one to watch to fully appreciate Woo's cinema mastery. Remember it's still essentially a low budget production, compared to a Face/Off or Windtalkers or even a Hard Boiled. In that context, it really is extraordinary...

Thanks for the knowledge, Strax!

Share your love for BULLET IN THE HEAD! Is A BETTER TOMORROW 3 any good? <never seen> And do you like WINDTALKERS?

A Better Tomorrow 3 isn't really in the same vein (hell, I can't even remember if it's the same family as the Gor brothers or Ti Lung/Leslie Cheung's cop family -- probably not). It's actually a picture called Love & Death In Saigon with the "A Better Tomorrow" prefix added to it, I guess for commerical reasons. Bizarrely it's like director (and producer of Woo's early pictures) Tsui Hark took elements from A Better Tomorrow 2 and Bullet In The Head and vigorously blended/diluted with some Canto-pop video stylistics. It's okay. Better than, say, much recent HK action output. Worth seeing, if you liked the first two, just because. If you liked all the Leslie Cheung pop songs on A Better Tomorrow 2 you might get more out of it as well as there are a few very similar ballads knocking around the running time.

I like Windtalkers in parts. The action's grand (though grander if they'd let Woo do that first battle sequence in the mammoth single take like he wanted) and even the harmonica/war cliché stuff makes me smile. But it's neither a full on John Wayne or Sam Fuller war film homage nor an incisive examination of race relations in the armed forces. So it ends up being a diluted version of both.

I finally picked up the Director's Cut recently and I know veteran CHUDster Blunt really digs this cut. I'm hopeful it offers more than the resolutely 3 star theatrical version.

Thanks! I'm going to hunt it down. As for the director's cut of WINDTALKERS, I'll be curious to here your take after you watch. ( I have a certain fondness for it I can't quite justify)

There's definitely more action. The beginning sequence (Cage and a handful of marines holding the position) isn't as chopped up as the theatrical version. The surprise Japanese attack on the vilage is about twice as long as the theatrical version.

I would go into more detail but I don't want to spoil it for anyone.

Thanks for the info Straxboy, I'm also curious about Once a Thief. Any thoughts.

If the body of work he's mainly kown for is 'Melville meets Peckinpah', Once A Thief is 'Melville meets To Catch A Thief era Hitchcock'. Makes you wonder if Woo was top of the list for The Thomas Crown Affair remake. Or that McTeirnan is totally a fan of Once A Thief. Or that Soberbergh is a fan for that matter.

Breezy, inoffensive and thoroughly charming. Would make a great double bill with Johnnie To's Running Out Of Time.

Thanks again Strax, this one and Bullet in the head are two of Woo's I've never been able to find and would love to watch.

Is my memory failing or did they try to turn ONCE A THIEF into a tv show?

Unfortunately that's the version I saw. To paraphrase Jon Lovitz "it stank!"

It's only redeeming feature was that it introduced me to Sandrine Holt.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm90412544/nm0002142

I just have to add to the love for Once A Thief. And yes, thoroughly charming is the best description for it.

I've got that version on video,

"I'M SHAAAAKING!!!"



I first saw Hard Boiled when I was 15 and it was instantly my favourite movie of all time. Haven't seen it for a good few years now, might have to pop it in later.

I love the jazzy, up beat score as well. It shouldn't fit with the content at all but it really works.

I think I'm remembering this right (HAM, Isao, Dre?), but after you're done with Hard Boiled, watch Commando and listen to James Horner's score very carefully.

A BETTER TOMORROW III (the print of which I saw under this title, without LOVE AND DEATH IN SAIGON anywhere in the credits) is indeed an official prequel with Chow Yun-Fat appearing as Mark Gor. Though Mark is the only returning character, there are references to the preceding entries all over the place and even a few of Joseph Koo's memorable music cues pop up in the soundtrack. It's not just an "in-name-only" cash-in. It is pretty dull, however (despite the attractive pairing of Chow and Anita Mui), and not recommended.

I know Woo has spoken of the TO CATCH A THIEF inspiration in interviews, but the film always reminded me of a Lupin III entry, particularly THE CASTLE OF CAGLIOSTRO. Also, not to be a persistent contrarian, but I would say the film that was most influenced by Woo's is HUDSON HAWK. Aside of the obvious similarities in story, tone, and locations, there are whole gags and setpieces in the Willis vehicle that make me wonder if Joel Silver (who is reportedly a huge fan of the Hong Kong action flicks of that period) caught the film overseas and was going for a similar approach.

Composed and performed by Michael Gibbs. The CD is out of print, but you can find it online for download.

I can't remember the full post, but I do remember cracking up at your impression of Woo after hearing it. Love that zippy, percussion-heavy score. I still pop in the CD in my car every now and then.

I thought ABT3 was fine and engrossing (and even exciting in spurts), though tonally and thematically out of place with the previous 2. I can understand why so many people were disappointed. It's definitely more romance & political/family drama than heroic bloodshed though.