Batman Begins (2004) - Page 2

What always bothered me about this movie (a movie I love) is Bruce's claims that although he hung out with criminals for years he never became one of them. The moment is glossed over so quickly that it feels like Bruce is either deluding himself, or Nolan didn't truly believe in that part of his own script. I'd prefer the former, as by the end of The Dark Knight Bruce is faking being a criminal yet again. That's fruitful thematic ground to explore in TDKR, especially if Bruce's attraction to Catwoman pushes him closer to the edge.

Wasn't Bruce busted for stealing (or attempting to steal) some of his own stuff? That right there makes him a criminal (as does stealing food to survive).

BEGINS has some problems, but I think it's only become better with age. Nolan  and Bale made Wayne interesting without the suit, something none of the other films managed to do. And it's actually far more comic-y than we were led to believe when it was released; it's just more emotionally mature than previous incarnations, and a bit more concerned with providing somewhat plausible sources for Bat-tech. But in tone, plot, and even visuals, it's very stylized.

I think what that line infers is that Bruce, in his mind, remained objective about it, like a journalist, he never felt any kinship, he observed his "intended quarry" and did just enough not to be detected. Of course, Bruce is a very weird guy and a master of self-deception, and everything he thought he learned in this film was uprooted in its sequel*, so there's that.

*Some of Bruce's dialogue and his actions in TDK echo a lot of what Ra's Al Ghul taught him, which I feel is intentional.

Just watched this again and liked it more than I remembered. I still feel like Tom Wilkinson is the least menacing mobster I've ever seen and Neeson starts off ok but ends up undercooked but I liked Katie Holmes more than I thought I did and I still loved Freeman, Caine, Murphy, Oldman and Hauer.

I also still think it's far from the "real world" Batman that was buzzed about so much at the time. Where it excels is in selling a cinema version of a lot of the comic book contrivance in a way which doesn't feel too ridiculous (as opposed to the way the grand scale of the big screen illuminated the ridiculousness of The Green Lantern for example). I think in the end it's that there are enough scenes which are perfectly realised and thrilling enough to build up the momentum to roll through the weaker ones.

One question it left me with was why there was so much wailing and gnashing of teeth at Bale's Bat-voice in TDK when he'd already growled his way through Begins. Sure both films have their problems but the voice works a treat and makes much more sense than many other aspects of Nolan's Bat-world.

Speaking of Bale's Bat-voice (College Humor vids & the like aren't very funny on the whole but this one absolutely KILLED me):

It's Shauna Malwae-Tweep!!!

The Bat-growl from Begins is cut way more slack because he doesn't use it as much. He uses the voice mainly for barking orders and intimidating bad guys. In TDK he's holding actual conversations and delivering thematically relevant speeches in the voice, which just comes across as awkward to a fair number of folks.

Plus with the first movie it was one of those "hope they do it better in the sequel" aspects that get a free pass from those who otherwise loved the movie.

The Batvoice is more, um, extreme or pronounced in TDK. And, as pointed out above, it's used a lot more. Plus it's used at some weird times (when Bruce is NOT suited up and dragging Harvey away as the Joker crashes the party).

I was honestly fine with the Batvoice for all of TDK...until the last exchange between the Joker and Batman. For me, it really drained Batman's responses of power and made his words sound dumb.