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Batman R.I.P.

post #1 of 67
5/16/08 at 11:13pm
Thread Starter 
It's been touched on in the "Comeback" thread, but who here read the first issue, and what do you think?

I loved it.
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post #2 of 67
5/17/08 at 1:58pm
There's potential here, but I don't really get why people are liking this issue so much. Basically, it introduces, or rather expands upon, a cool-seeming group of super-criminals...but that's it. My big problem has to do with the Joker stuff at the end. I have no idea what was supposed to have been happening there, and I can't say I'm crazy about the whole 'Harlequin of Hell' business. When Morrison took over, the scene of Batman tossing the Joker in the garbage, combined with Morrison's comments about dialing down the "grim 'n' gritty" Batman, led me to believe he was going to be steering clear of precisely this kind of thing, yet "The Joker as Violent Psychopath" keeps popping up throughout the run. The only thing I can think of is that he's being used as a symbol of the kind of violence and darkness that the new Batman is trying to move beyond, but just placing him in the story seems like it runs counter to Morrison's stated goals.
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post #3 of 67
5/17/08 at 4:51pm
I think it is part of the theme that Morrison is building, and Batman #663 did promise a "new", apocalyptic-level Joker, so it looks like we got him. I'm not sure if I'll follow the issues not contained w/in Morrison's arc, but I'm excited about what he's trying to do here. Also, the Batmobile has hardly had a consistent look over the decades, but I dig the sleek, throwback-update look of the new ride.
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post #4 of 67
5/17/08 at 5:19pm
My biggest disappointment of this is finding out it'll be taking place over all the Batman books, and I have no intention of buying them. Hopefully we'll get a complete story out of just reading the main title. That said, this was a solid start but it seems like just a tease at this point.
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post #5 of 67
5/17/08 at 6:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
My biggest disappointment of this is finding out it'll be taking place over all the Batman books, and I have no intention of buying them. Hopefully we'll get a complete story out of just reading the main title. That said, this was a solid start but it seems like just a tease at this point.
The six main parts of the story will all be within the Batman title, and the others are more of an addendum than anything else. But, since I read those titles anyways I'll be picking them up, but if you don't already then I wouldn't worry about it.

And as for what Prankster said, I totally dig the Joker from this entire run, and this issue has done something that many writers failed to do and that's make the Joker terrifying. The scene at the end struck me as an employee of the Black Glove seeing if the Joker was even able to see reality through the psychotic breaks he keeps enduring. He's consumed with destroying the Batman, and if you were setting up an event in which Batman will be destroyed I don't see how you can do it without the Joker. Batman throwing him in the garbage can almost be seen as a baptism into a deeper level of insanity, because in the prose issue with the Joker in Arkham I think we saw the last of the Joker that we have been reading over the past twenty years. The bullet hole in his head was a nice touch.

While it's true that the first issue of this arc did contain a large amount of exposition to catch unfamiliar readers up with what's been going on inside Bruce's head, I think it was a necessary evil, and in the next issue which comes out in less than two weeks there isn't going to be anymore setup. It's going to dive in head first into the hell Batman/Bruce Wayne is about to inhabit. The first two issues seem to be polar opposites of Secret Invasoin in the way that had an explosive first issue followed by meandering and more setup, where as this rightfully had it's setup issue first and then is steamrolling towards the main conceit of the story.
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post #6 of 67
5/17/08 at 7:24pm
That's a good point, there will probably be a lot of people starting this book with this storyline (although Grant Morrison alone should have brought them to the party).
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post #7 of 67
5/17/08 at 9:47pm
But why does the Joker have to be terrifying? Morrison made it sound like his run on the book was going to be at least partly a response to how obnoxiously dark and gritty and violent Batman's comics had become for the last decade or two, and sure enough, a lot of what he's been doing has been about "de-asshole-ing" Batman. Hairy-chested love god, and all that. But a barely-articulate, psychotic, homicidal, goth Joker straight out of Frank Miller's fever dreams doesn't seem to fit into that very well.

Like I say--I'm guessing Morrison is using the Joker as a symbol of everything he's trying to get away from, and yes, if you're going to "kill" Batman, you'd think the Joker would have to be involved. It's just a slightly odd choice considering where he's trying to take the Batman comic.
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post #8 of 67
5/18/08 at 4:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
But why does the Joker have to be terrifying?
"When super-villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories."

I just like that line.
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post #9 of 67
5/20/08 at 2:34am
Screw Batman RIP. Batman Confidential #17 had Batgirl (Babs) and Catwoman having a... catfight, in which they both ended up naked. Now that's just good story telling right there.
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post #10 of 67
5/27/08 at 5:43pm
Thread Starter 
IGN has a great interview up with Morrison about his intentions and thought process behind R.I.P.

Interview.

The next part comes out on Thursday, and hopefully it doesn't lose any steam, because the way that Morrison described the issue it seems like exposition may be the main point. But, I could be wrong in my interpretation.
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post #11 of 67
5/27/08 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
"When super-villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories."

I just like that line.
Me too! as for the Joker, I've always liked Moore's and Morrison's take on him: A normal person who cracked up and went of the deep end after realizing what a joke the world is (Moorr, Killing Joke) or simply someone who's unable to control how he perceives reality, thus suffering from some sort of hyper-sanity (Morrison, Arkham Asylum).
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post #12 of 67
5/29/08 at 1:07am
Thread Starter 
I just read Batman #677 and it was fairly great. My review should be up tomorrow night if anyone is interested. It should have been up in a few minutes, but I need to re-read some prior issues before I can do it properly. But, it was very good.
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post #13 of 67
5/29/08 at 1:55am
I hate you and your early comic getting... not as much as I hate Monday holidays though.
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post #14 of 67
5/29/08 at 12:55pm
Thread Starter 
Late shipping due to a holiday on Monday only usually occurs on a week like this where my favorite titles are shipping. The extra day always kills me. Although, technically, my extra day means I'm getting my books the day that everyone else normally would. Hm.
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post #15 of 67
5/29/08 at 1:56pm
It is rather stupid on DC's part to release big titles like Final Crisis #1 on a week where everyone gets fucked up from the holidelay.
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post #16 of 67
5/29/08 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
IGN has a great interview up with Morrison about his intentions and thought process behind R.I.P.

Interview.

The next part comes out on Thursday, and hopefully it doesn't lose any steam, because the way that Morrison described the issue it seems like exposition may be the main point. But, I could be wrong in my interpretation.
Hot damn, you weren't kidding. A lot of shit goes down in issue 2. Still a bit confused on what the hell is going on though.
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post #17 of 67
5/29/08 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Mohamed View Post
Still a bit confused on what the hell is going on though.
That's how you know its Morrison.
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post #18 of 67
5/29/08 at 5:17pm
So...are we going to act surprised when Jezebel Jet turns out to be working for the bad guys? I mean, her name's frikkin' Jezebel for crying out loud. Could be misdirection on Morrison's part, but the setup is pretty much perfect for a betrayal.

Meanwhile, it almost seems like we're heading for a story where Bruce Wayne fakes his death and adopts a new secret identity for Batman...Am I crazy for thinking that? All the "Bruce's backstory is a big lie" stuff seems to be pointing in that direction.
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post #19 of 67
5/29/08 at 6:14pm
Thread Starter 
Spoiler-ish for Batman #677:
Well, it seemed as though when the Club of Villains appeared in the Batcave, they were referring to Alfred as La Bas, which one could interpret as familiarity due to a professional relationship. It didn't occur to me on the first read, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the information given in the scene with Gordon is in fact the truth.
/end.

Also La-Bas is the title of a novel published in 1891 which has to do with an occultist revolution in France during the 1880s. Seems like a relevant source of inspiration for Morrison.
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post #20 of 67
5/29/08 at 6:42pm
Making Alfred evil is stupider than making _____ a Skrull.
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post #21 of 67
5/29/08 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 
I have a feeling it's a red-herring, but with Morrison you never know until it's over. I just have a hard time seeing DC allow it, or else I'd believe it.
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post #22 of 67
5/30/08 at 4:50pm
The Jezebel thing seems a bit obvious and wouldn't it undercut some real points she made about Bruce's obsession with being the Bat. Those being expressed by someone trying to rattle him might not be taken as seriously, in the long run. Also, what about the invitiation? Other than an enrty point for a conversation about the Black Glove with Bruce, what point would it serve? Did she already now about him anyway. If she's involved she knows that plan and the chances they won't be attending.

If she's not involved, my guess, is she's the one who tells either Robin or Nightwing that Batmans in trouble. Isn't always the bad guy's way to let the screaming woman run and try and get help?
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post #23 of 67
6/2/08 at 2:01pm
I've also read some interesting speculation on the "Ah, La Bas. Deep down where no one can find you" line. Possibly refering to Alfred's old alter ego the "Outsider." As Bruce did mention his outside artwork in an earlier issue speculation is that Alfred's alter ego is involved and the punishment he's taking at the end of the last issue is a way to awaken this dormant side, lost "deep down where no one can find him."
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post #24 of 67
6/2/08 at 3:11pm
Didn't they de-asshole Batman in the caves of Nanda Parabat, during "the Lost Year" in 52? Why would they feel the need to un-grit and gritty him even MORE?
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post #25 of 67
6/2/08 at 5:55pm
That's a question I've had for a while. In the first part Robin talks about the cave he went into. Seems it just fucked him up all the more.
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post #26 of 67
6/2/08 at 6:05pm
I think Morrison is supposed to address what happened in the caves with the RIP series. The multi-colored covers, which harkens back to the Rainbow Batman, is theorized to represent one branch of Tibetan Buddhism whose highest attainment is that of the 'Rainbow Body' which is composed of composed of the 'five pure lights.'

This is a fun series in that there is so much going on, different theories about what is happening, I just hope that it won't be disappointing in the end.
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post #27 of 67
6/2/08 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
I just put up my review of Batman #677 on Rack Raids. A bit late, but I had some personal stuff going on. And it's relatively spoiler-free, even though most of you have read it.

Batman R.I.P. Part 2.
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post #28 of 67
6/2/08 at 6:51pm
I think you're the only person that I've seen who likes Tony Daniels' art on this. I mean, yeah, it's not terrible, but I would hesitate very much to say it's "fantastic." In fact, outside of JH Williams III three issue arc, I'd say the art on Grant's Batman has been fairly pedestrian to disappointing.

All that said, I like where it's gone so far story-wise, and am very intrigued as to who the "Black Glove" actually is.
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post #29 of 67
6/2/08 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
There's something about his art that inherently fits the story, and I prefer it to Kubert's work earlier in the run. I like the pencils, I like the detail, and I like the fact that he's shown growth throughout the issues he's worked on. There's clean work, and then there is visually meshing with a story in a near perfect way, and that's where I think Daniel's work on Batman falls up to this point.
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post #30 of 67
6/2/08 at 7:12pm
Generally I think Daniels' art is pretty good, but on part 2 I thought it was a bit of mess. Had me questioning whether there were some uncredited fill-ins going on.
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post #31 of 67
6/2/08 at 9:09pm
Thread Starter 
I think it was a large undertaking to complete that issue with all of the background detail that was meant to be put in. I can admit that compared to part one this had a slightly rushed quality, but that's also in large part to the fact it shipped only two weeks after the previous issue.
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post #32 of 67
6/11/08 at 6:09am
Alfred betrays Bruce, and Hush becomes Batman. You heard it here first.
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post #33 of 67
7/2/08 at 12:25am
Thread Starter 
I just read Batman #678, and it has the potential to be extremely confusing if you haven't been following the last 60 years of Batman continuity.
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post #34 of 67
7/2/08 at 12:52am
A Grant Morrison comic with the potential to be extremely confusing? The hell you say!
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post #35 of 67
7/2/08 at 1:08am
Thread Starter 
I opted to not use the obligatory "/sarcasm" ending for that last post.
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post #36 of 67
7/3/08 at 9:41pm
I was going to post "somebody please explain what the hell is going on", but this at least gives a decent idea, and here's the story Morrison's riffing on (thank God somebody linked to it).
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post #37 of 67
7/5/08 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
People at our shop have been coming back in angry about the last issue. I don't know what they were expecting, but it's right about where I figured it would be in terms of weirdness and the like.
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post #38 of 67
7/8/08 at 3:47pm
I have to admit, I find all the complaints about the storyarc being confusing baffling. Plotwise, I think this is about the most straightforward thing that Morrison has ever done. I can't imagine how people would react to his Doom Patrol, Animal Man, or Invisibles runs if they find this confusing.

A few hallucinations and a few references to wild 1950s Batman stories that really have no impact on the plot shouldn't send people into a tizzy. Especially since Morrison went out of his way to explain the only story from that era that really seems to be important, "Robin Dies at Dawn", earlier in his run.

I'd understand if we were talking about Kerouac or Dick as authors, but Morrison is hardly aiming for that territory.
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post #39 of 67
7/9/08 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
I was going to post "somebody please explain what the hell is going on", but this at least gives a decent idea, and here's the story Morrison's riffing on (thank God somebody linked to it).
There's also this, from Untold Legends of The Batman:






This blog is also pretty useful. So is Wikipedia.

Honestly, the references and the deciphering make this even more of a fun read.
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post #40 of 67
7/10/08 at 5:45pm



Look familiar?
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post #41 of 67
6/8/09 at 12:01am
The Black Casebook is coming out in a couple of weeks.
http://dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=11737

Are most of these old stories worthy checking out. I'd like to know more about the mysterious BAT-RADIA.
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post #42 of 67
6/5/10 at 12:01am
I'm a few issues into this, and I say, without reservation, that it is the single worst thing I've read in my entire life. If Grant Morrison is the best writer comics has to offer, then the industry deserves to die the pathetic fucking death it's currently enjoying.
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post #43 of 67
6/5/10 at 12:21am
Yeah i have definitely started to think that his incoherent, pseudo "makes you think" writing has gone past it's shelf life. The Return of Bruce Wayne has been unreadable and the art on 2 sucks. Additionally they had Cameron Stewart set to work on an issue (his art on B&R was great) but replaced him with the guy who does the manhunter backup and buffy who draws everyone with 12 year old bodies. Definitely completely mismatched for Batman.
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post #44 of 67
6/5/10 at 1:01am
Paul McCartney has led a very sheltered life.
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post #45 of 67
6/5/10 at 1:44am
RIP is interesting and annoying at the same time.

Interesting because it turned out the whole thing was about obscure Batman comics from the 50s/60s.

Annoying because it makes very little sense unless you read DETAILED ONLINE EXPLANATIONS from people who actually remember those stories. Obviously you shouldn't have to do this to follow RIP. Especially when guys like Morrison talk about bringing the mainstream to comics and making comics more accessible to new readers. RIP is probably one of the most new reader-unfriendly comics of all time.
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post #46 of 67
6/5/10 at 2:30am
If you didn't enjoy The Return of Bruce Wayne past issue two than I do't think youzlll enjoy it at all because that was a pretty great issue.
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post #47 of 67
6/5/10 at 3:02am
Superhero comics over the last decade has gone from being interesting and decent storytelling to be a huge circle jerk. With BATMAN RIP Grant Morrison is basically throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "If you don't know everything that ever happened in Batman comics, then fuck you!" It's basically what Geoff Johns has been doing, but with 100% more grad school condescension.

That said, BATMAN AND ROBIN is much better (but still, there's headache-inducing references to RIP). But still, I'm done with superhero comics for now. It's finally reached the point where I think it's legitimately killing the medium.
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post #48 of 67
6/5/10 at 7:10pm
I enjoyed BATMAN RIP as a fuck you to the "grand, epic" Batman comics from the past two decades. Whether it be KNIGHTFALL, No Man's Land, or HUSH, writers have tried to make Batman interesting by putting him through a gauntlet of his former villains, and have ultimately failed.

Morrison's Batman run hasn't been stellar, but it's pretty obvious what he's been trying to do. While past Batman writers have only paid homage to darker stories such as THE KILLING JOKE and LONG HALLOWEEN, Morrison has been trying to incorporate Batman's Odd Silver Age. I can see why an off-hand mention to the Bat-Radia might be jarring (As even I had to look it up), but even if you don't know who major character devices Bat-Mite or the Batman of Zurr-En-Rah is, they're explained in the text.

If someone could explain the dislike towards BATMAN AND ROBIN and RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE, that would help though, for as far as I'm concerned, their the only comics worth reading.
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post #49 of 67
6/5/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
I can see why an off-hand mention to the Bat-Radia might be jarring (As even I had to look it up), but even if you don't know who major character devices Bat-Mite or the Batman of Zurr-En-Rah is, they're explained in the text.
They were? I finished it last night, and it was just a nightmare. The pages might as well have been stapled in any order, for how much relation they had to one another.

Did Batman even die in it? I honestly couldn't tell. Why is it called Batman RIP?

And I'm sick of every modern-day Batman/Joker confrontation consisting of Batman holding the Joker by the scruff of his neck in various poses while the Joker just cackles stuff like WE'RE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN, YOU AND I, SWEETHEART DARLING HEH HEH.

WOW THE JOKER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING NOT EVEN PHYSICAL PAIN WHOOOOAH

And what was that big Clayface person made out of slime who was sitting in a throne and these two aliens were attending to him and Batman was in a water tank having his dreams analysed and oh god kill me.

I give it a 0/10. No exaggeration. Horrible.
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post #50 of 67
6/5/10 at 8:29pm
No he doesn't die in BATMAN RIP. For some reason he "died" in Final Crisis which was also a big mess!
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