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I don't even LIKE Star Wars anymore - Page 3

post #101 of 187
You're probably right unfortunately. Kids will probably prefer the new Star Wars movies over the old ones and it sucks because the original Star Wars and Indiana Jones were far better trilogies than the new Star Wars and Pirates.
post #102 of 187
Y'see I think the first Pirates and A New Hope are kind of on equal pegging in terms of craft.
post #103 of 187
Actually, I got the impression while working at the Lego store that the younger kids are already looking at it as Episodes I through VI. Makes me wonder if they even grasp the fact that the second half was made a couple decades before the first, then changed (and changed again) in order to fit it, but I would hope a good number of them do.
post #104 of 187
Phantom Menace probably wouldn't be too bad if you watch it with no previous Star Wars experience.
post #105 of 187
Quote:
Star Wars seems like my parent's thing
Damn, I'm old. Saw it in '77, second day of release, in a long-gone Panavision theater... and my parents regarded it as a "kid thing". It's a world turned upside-down!

Today, the whole franchise simply gets a blank stare from me. Yesterday, as Kate and I were going in to see Blade Runner: The Final Cut at Viktoria, I saw a big poster out in front for the animated Star Wars. I just had no reaction at all to it. They're showing it subtitled (as is the norm here in Sweden) and also a version dubbed in swedish (you know - for kids!). I think seeing it in swedish might actually be amusing.

As far as POTA goes... maybe it's how I've changed over the years, but I'll take a half-hour of Charlton Heston smugly delivering cynical Serling-esque monologues over a Death Star attack any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Plus, Goldsmith owns, as the kids say.
post #106 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker monkey View Post
Yeah, it's not hard for me to remember the impact they had on me in 1977, but coming into the franchise at any other point in your life has to dull the effect a little bit.
Sort of...while I didn't see Hope or Empire in the theater on original release, I did see Jedi in '83. I was 3 or 4 and at that point, I remember Star Wars being fucking everywhere and people having reverential respect for it. I was thoroughly obsessed with it until the prequels hit.

I remember I got really sick when I was 5 or something and my parents called a doctor over to the house to give me a shot. I was so frightened of needles and struggled to get away...they grabbed me and held me down, and who did I cry out to for help? God? No...I cried out for R2 fucking D2. "R2D2 help me! R2D2 help me!" over and over...yes, thoroughly obsessed. I had countless books, records and action figures.

And I think alot of Star Wars apathy has to do with growing up and the disillusionment that adulthood brings...it doesn't help that Lucas made the prequels to futher disillusion people, but that's a major part of it. I wonder how people would feel about Star Wars if the prequels had never been made.
post #107 of 187
So I'm dropping this here since I couldn't be buggered to find the appropriate thread.

My six year old and I just finished Lego Star Wars: The Original Trilogy. I took this opportunity to have him actually sit down and watch the old flicks and enjoy them because, "Hey, Dad! That happens in my game!" and "Darth Vader doesn't kill him, Dad, see he just faints in the game."

Anyway, I decided to go buy the Prequel Trilogy to also give him something else to watch and because we will probably go get the Lego game as well.

Might I just say that the Prequels suck even harder than they did when they originally came out.

Fuck you, George Lucas. I want my money back. I also want my money back for catching those three pieces of shit in the theatre the first time around plus interest you dodgy cocksucker.
post #108 of 187
So sad. He made these things for kids, not for you.

I was at a job interview some time ago and at one point the Boss's little 8 year old son came in the room. For some reason the whole interview ended being nerd talk about Star Wars. This little 8 year old guy knew all the characters and I asked him whether he liked the old movies or the new movies better. He didn't seem to realize some of them where newer than the rest.

His favorite was The phantom menace and second to that Return of the Jedi.

Kids love this shit and it's depressing to see adults getting a hissy fit over some kids movies.
post #109 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
So sad. He made these things for kids, not for you.

I was at a job interview some time ago and at one point the Boss's little 8 year old son came in the room. For some reason the whole interview ended being nerd talk about Star Wars. This little 8 year old guy knew all the characters and I asked him whether he liked the old movies or the new movies better. He didn't seem to realize some of them where newer than the rest.

His favorite was The phantom menace and second to that Return of the Jedi.

Kids love this shit and it's depressing to see adults getting a hissy fit over some kids movies.
I'm getting in a hissy fit for my son and Lucas' sake. Imagine when he is my age and he watches the Prequels and wants his money back plus interest on the purchase I just made?

Fuck. That could add up.
post #110 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I'm getting in a hissy fit for my son and Lucas' sake. Imagine when he is my age and he watches the Prequels and wants his money back plus interest on the purchase I just made?
Or, shockingly, he could watch them, enjoy them, and keep enjoying them into adulthood.
post #111 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Fuck you, George Lucas. I want my money back. I also want my money back for catching those three pieces of shit in the theatre the first time around plus interest you dodgy cocksucker.
Thank you for posting this. I don't know what the world would have done without having you post your unique perspective on this. Why nobody has said this before is a mystery that will haunt us 'till death.
post #112 of 187
I just last night listened to the first Tarantino guest commentary on SPACED where they go into the prequels, and was cracking, the fuck, up.

To sum up, QT has never even seen TPM or AotC, still. Had no desire to sully the OT for himself, which as Pegg says on the commentary is remarkable for someone like Quentin, who devours cinema. But, he saw ROS on Edgar Wright's personal recommendation of, "That one's not that bad." And immediately called Wright out on it: "That was the BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT..!" Tarantino claims he even forgot about the Pulp Fiction reference in that ep of SPACED -- he just wanted to be there for the Lucas Bonfire scene.

Funny as hell conversation, one of the best commentaries on the set.

Myself, I'm in Jessica's camp. The person in the room who'll throw their hands up and say, "Oh, hell. Not to get into a whole thing, but they're not that bad...."
post #113 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trav McGee View Post
To sum up, QT has never even seen TPM or AotC, still. Had no desire to sully the OT for himself, which as Pegg says on the commentary is remarkable for someone like Quentin, who devours cinema. But, he saw ROS on Edgar Wright's personal recommendation of, "That one's not that bad." And immediately called Wright out on it: "That was the BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT..!" Tarantino claims he even forgot about the Pulp Fiction reference in that ep of SPACED -- he just wanted to be there for the Lucas Bonfire scene.
To be fair, I don't think Tarantino's the best to distinguish the quality in film. He has some pretty terrible movie tastes.
post #114 of 187
Totally off-topic but sort of not:

I watched THE MATRIX last night for the first time in about three years. I always enjoyed (but didn't love) the first one, and loathed the second and third.

I actually struggled to get through THE MATRIX last night. Hoo-boy: what once was so cool and edgy now seems decidedly uncool and un-edgy (not a word, but whatever). I realize a lot of that has to do with oversaturation and familiarity, but for crying out loud, everyone just stood around making long, boring speeches that tried so hard to be cryptic and profound rather than moving the story along in an intelligible way.

THE MATRIX feels as though it was written and filmed by the world's smartest, albeit loneliest, ninth grader. The sequels are the ninth grader three years later when he's discovered weed.

And by the way, I still love Star Wars (originals, not prequels), but right now, I feel that I need to love them from afar. I won't be watching them any time soon, but I hope that when I do (probably in a few years, once I have kids and I'm showing it to them for the first time), I can rediscover that magic. But not today.
post #115 of 187
I find myself enjoying The Matrix more before Neo "wakes up".
post #116 of 187
That QT story is great, though I'm surprised Wright ever had a good thing to say about Sith.
post #117 of 187
"Mr. Wright, I have a bone to pick with you."

A lot of people walked out of Sith liking to loving it. I call it Stockholm syndrome. I still get in fights with Alexandra DuPont when I see her, and tell her she's wrong for liking it.

Wow, a film that draws its power from being futuristic and edgy has aged poorly? Mon Deux!
post #118 of 187
On the same note I watched Equilibrium the other night, while I was blah over the fight scenes, the basic story and themes held up really well. Being a huge fun of Brave New World, 1984, WE and Anthem I felt that the story was pretty thought out and you gave a damn about the characters. It's just sad that the film was a one trick pony for the director and that Ultra Violet was just bad bad bad..

And for Star Wars, I find myself missing the days of the mid 90's before Ep.1 where Stars Wars was still "around" but not in the way it is today. You had to go out and hunt for items, not just walk into your local Wal-Mart
post #119 of 187
Finished reading Dune Messiah, the second in the series, last week. Needless to say, and I'm sure this has been said before, the similarities are uncanny.

A powerful man, living on a desert planet, is plagued by responsibilities to friends and duty while having visions of his wife dying in child birth. He takes on many different names. He is badly maimed. His wife does indeed die, in a twist of irony because of the man, giving birth to twins. The boy mirrors his father's traits while the girl mirrors her mothers.

Hmmm....

Putting Dune aside, I've burned myself out on the movies. More so I'm invested in the universe itself, mostly due to the work of Timothy Zahn, Tom Veitch, John Ostrander, and the video games (especially KOTOR). Dark Empire was a true sequel to the movies, and Star Wars: Legacy is a comic worth checking out. I admit to picking up the occasional SW audio from the library, if only because they liven it up with sound FX and somtimes full casts, and my commute to work is long and boring.
post #120 of 187
Honest question. Are the Star Wars films, and by this I mean the Original Trilogy, still untouchables in terms of criticism in regards to geeks or did the PT allow y'all, Dickson excluded, to view them with a little more objectivity. I was having this discussion with someone earlier and when I mentioned that I really didn't like Star Wars all that much he essentially looked at me like I was stating gravity didn't exist.
post #121 of 187
The original trilogy got a bit of a dressing down in the mainstream media when they were rereleased in 1997. People still enjoyed Empire pretty unabashedly.
post #122 of 187
Consider me a newbie on this topic, but I think most people give the Original Trilogy a pass because Star Wars introduced the idea of an "Expanded Universe" in a film series to them.

There were the toys (X-Wings) and people felt they were part of something much greater and bigger. That counts for a lot I think.

It also helps that EMPIRE and RETURN were fairly well made films. I certainly enjoyed them a lot more than INDY 4. The scene where Vader turns on the Emperor still makes me choke with emotion whenever I see it.
post #123 of 187
Context of age will probably be everything in this discussion. I'm sure most people of the right age still have a fondness for them, but the first two are crackerjack entertainments. I'm sure if someone said they didn't like Jaws I would be equally shocked. They're shallow, at worst, but they still move. I don't know what it's like to not grow up with them, and I know people have lauded Jurassic Park as being exceptional, when that's a film of set pieces. But if you were the right age, it might be perfect, dunno. Melted ice cream.
post #124 of 187
I spent money buying the DVD releases of every Star Wars movie (including the animated one), I regularly defend the PT to people, and I still consider Empire on of my favorites of all time, but I hope that future generations recognize how much better Jaws is than A New Hope.
post #125 of 187
Gabe Powers,Jaws is an ok film...but it is better than, The Phantom Menace. If you were talking...Raiders Of The Lost Ark though...Raiders is clearly better than...A New Hope.
post #126 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
Jaws is an ok film...
Fuck me.
post #127 of 187
I'm with sackley.
post #128 of 187
I certainly don't agree with Duke-the-imaginary-savant, but that said, I don't think I want to fuck sackley.

Tho I'm sure you're a lovely fella and all sack.
post #129 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
So sad. He made these things for kids, not for you.

I was at a job interview some time ago and at one point the Boss's little 8 year old son came in the room. For some reason the whole interview ended being nerd talk about Star Wars. This little 8 year old guy knew all the characters and I asked him whether he liked the old movies or the new movies better. He didn't seem to realize some of them where newer than the rest.

His favorite was The phantom menace and second to that Return of the Jedi.

Kids love this shit and it's depressing to see adults getting a hissy fit over some kids movies.
No, he made these things to make money. Period. No less, and no more.
Lucas talks a big game about creating a modern mythology for the masses, blah blah blah. It's all horse shit. He did the bare minimum required to generate a specific level of box office, merchandising, and residuals cash flow by banking off of the good will he engendered twenty years ago by creating a FAR superior product in the Original Trilogy. Lucas was a less experienced, and less synical film make back then and I do believe at that time he actually wanted to create something extra ordinary, something which would resonate with many generations.

Not any more. The older, more experienced Lucas cares only for the bottom line and how much he can milk his older work for.
post #130 of 187
Yay, I'm the new Carl Cunningham!

You know, in the wake of Godfather Part III, I didn't see all this hand-wringing about whether or not it made you re-examine The Godfather or The Godfather Part II more objectively. Why is there this need to go back and re-evaluate Star Wars and Empire?
post #131 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Why is there this need to go back and re-evaluate Star Wars and Empire?
Manchild validation?
post #132 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Manchild validation?
But most of the desire to re-evaluate seems to come from wanting to knock the films down a peg or two.
post #133 of 187
I started thinking about it Rich, and then my brain just sort of petered out and trailed off....

Could be that its after 2am here - but I think Im honestly just getting over thinking about and discussing Lucas and all associated works.

Maybe I'll just bow out now and leave this 'battle' for the people who still seem to care.

I mean, its Star Wars, its been dissected now more than any other film series in the history of everything, all perspective seems to have vanished long ago. It was great fun, the best, then it wasn't and now Im all finished.

Not a rip on anyone in particular, I just think I officially don't care anymore. I'm done. Life's just too short.

Maybe I'll crack out the pre-special editions in a few years and show them to my nephew, maybe not - but I think Im pretty much done here.

post #134 of 187
Let it go, people. Or to quote another Francshise:

"It's over, Johnny. IT'S OVER!"
post #135 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Yay, I'm the new Carl Cunningham!

You know, in the wake of Godfather Part III, I didn't see all this hand-wringing about whether or not it made you re-examine The Godfather or The Godfather Part II more objectively. Why is there this need to go back and re-evaluate Star Wars and Empire?
Not sure why there's a need to do so, but there are big differences in the Godfather and Star Wars scenarios.

1: The first two Godfather movies are bulletproof, and the Star Wars movies wear their vulnerabilities on their sleeves. Aside from absurdly nitpicky continuity errors and such, they're rock solid examples of filmmaking. The script is poetic in its consistent deployment of memorable phrases and conversations, and the deliveries sell it across the board. Star Wars has its share of memorable phrases, too, but they share space with a lot of clunkers, and the actors aren't up to the task of making it work (though few could). But this isn't that big a deal, because

2: The Star Wars movies were not made to hold up to the same scrutiny as the Godfather. Upon reaching adulthood, some who enjoyed the films as children feel its necessary to declare this adulthood by rejecting the Star Wars films because they fail to live up to their now oh-so-grown-up standards. It's supposed to demonstrate adult perceptiveness, but it usually just suggests adolescent insecurity (for instance, you've been okay with a series with a prissy sentient robot and abominable snowmen, but add a few cute feral teddy bears, and the whole thing is, of course, completely ridiculous).

That said, it's all in the rationale. It's not inherently an act of insecurity to dismiss the Star Wars movies; it's just an act of insecurity to dismiss them for not living up to Godfather levels of criticism. There are certainly arguments to be made that they don't live up to standards of other simple, fun, plot-oriented adventure films.
post #136 of 187
I certainly wasn't trying to equate the quality of Star Wars to that of The Godfather, it was just the easiest, most widely-known example of quality films followed by disappointing follow-ups that came to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Upon reaching adulthood, some who enjoyed the films as children feel its necessary to declare this adulthood by rejecting the Star Wars films because they fail to live up to their now oh-so-grown-up standards.
I think this is the heart of the matter right here. It's not enough to grow up and say, "Yeah, the films have some warts, but they're still fun." They have to be completely and utterly rejected to show just how grown up you've become.
post #137 of 187
Lucas based a lot of his franchise on the idea that he had it all figured out. It's not that hard to see that the emperor has no clothes in this instance, but it's impossible not to point out. In this case the baby is bathwater-colored, or the bathwater is very baby-colored. But the internet has and always will offer people who see things in binary terms, and enhances the viewpoint that the answers lie in one extreme or the other.
post #138 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I certainly wasn't trying to equate the quality of Star Wars to that of The Godfather, it was just the easiest, most widely-known example of quality films followed by disappointing follow-ups that came to mind.
Oh, I didn't think you were. It's just that, with the Godfather series, there's less impetus to distance yourself from a movie you used to love because of a weak late entry, specifically because there's not that adult movie/kid movie dichotomy. I think that's at the heart of the post-prequels urge to re-evaluate the Star Wars series.

Quote:
I think this is the heart of the matter right here. It's not enough to grow up and say, "Yeah, the films have some warts, but they're still fun." They have to be completely and utterly rejected to show just how grown up you've become.
Right. Like I said, there are always legitimate reasons to reject any movie, but there are stupid ones, too. For instance, slamming Star Wars because the dialogue is simplistic is kind of like slamming the Godfather because there aren't any "good guys".
post #139 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
I certainly don't agree with Duke-the-imaginary-savant, but that said, I don't think I want to fuck sackley.

Tho I'm sure you're a lovely fella and all sack.
Offence taken.
post #140 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Honest question. Are the Star Wars films, and by this I mean the Original Trilogy, still untouchables in terms of criticism in regards to geeks or did the PT allow y'all, Dickson excluded, to view them with a little more objectivity. I was having this discussion with someone earlier and when I mentioned that I really didn't like Star Wars all that much he essentially looked at me like I was stating gravity didn't exist.
Before the Phantom Menace, I just remember thinking they were fun movies. I remember making a Lego Millenium Falcon and flying that around. I didn't apply much more thought to them than that.

Maybe the prequel trilogy's attempt to turn it into a bigger tragedy about Anakin made things less fun. I would have thought the prequels would be the backstory of things we liked from the first movies, from the start of the rebellion to the making of the X-Wings. I mean, we got C-3PO's origin which is fine, if a little silly, but Anakin's story could have taken just one or two films; we didn't even need to see him as a kid.

Starting with Attack of the Clones, I felt like the films started rushing through the story, hanging around in a scene for a couple of minutes before wiping to another one because there was so much to get to alongside Anakin's story. Excluding fight scenes, there aren't a lot of stretches where we stay with the same characters for a good while. The story jumps around a lot to let us know certain things are happening, like going down a checklist. There's one stretch in Attack of the Clones that cuts repeatedly between Obi-wan on the stormy water planet and Anakin with Padme, and it's kind of annoying that the movie doesn't pick a place and stay there for a while.
post #141 of 187
This has been an enjoyable discussion for me since I am very detached from Star Wars. It didn't really feature in my life since I was 20 went ANH came out. And I only say it once at the theatre.
post #142 of 187
The Star Wars Saga, is the greatest film franchise ever. The only weakness is...The Phantom Menace. It is...The Godfather III of...Star Wars. I watched the first 3 Star Wars films when they were shown in theaters in...1997 for the 20th anniversary of George Lucas' Epic Saga. When I was younger, I saw each of the first trilogy 4 times apiece in theaters. I saw TPM 3 times, Attack Of The Clones 6 times, and Revenge Of The Sith 3 times...in theaters.
post #143 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix natalya View Post
It also helps that EMPIRE and RETURN were fairly well made films. I certainly enjoyed them a lot more than INDY 4. The scene where Vader turns on the Emperor still makes me choke with emotion whenever I see it.
The Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes are what hold ROTJ above the prequels more than anything in my eyes. They add weight to an otherwise compromised film. Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith have the exact same problem...........there are too many storylines and plot points to be resolved in a single film.............but for different reasons.

With Sith, it's because Lucas meandered around too much with the first two prequels and then when it came time to write the third it was too late. He had wasted too much screentime. Instead of playing out the friendship of Anakin & Obi-Wan, the Clone Wars, the fall of Anakin, and the destruction of the Jedi/Republic over the course of all three films..............he pretty much waited until the third to do any of it. Anakin and Obi-Wan spend the majority of their time apart in the prequels, which kind of defeats the purpose of getting to know them as friends and as a team. The Clone Wars are completely skipped, which I think is more of Lucas not have the storytelling time to do them in the third film. I think both cartoon series are an afterthought to rectify this. The portrayal of Anakin's fall and the fall of the Republic itself are also handled quite clumsily. In hindsight, I'll be he wishes he told it in FOUR installments, instead of three. That way you have the semi-stand alone adventure of TPM to introduce us to the Old Republic and then still have room for a trilogy to develop Anakin and Obi-Wan with. Sort of a "Pilot Episode" before the actual Episode One. Long story short, he painted himself into a corner. Lucas should have sat down and outlined all three prequels in detail before actually writing them. I know he has said he did this, but I have my doubts. Each script seems like a reaction to the previous film's reception........with more focus on that than actual seamless storytelling.

As for Return of the Jedi? Well the information on its compromises is already available, courtesy of Gary Kurtz. For those who aren't aware though, here is the vague outline of what Kurtz & Lucas conceived as the Star Wars saga's story AFTER Star Wars blew up the box office in '77.

EPISODE ONE: It was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights, how they are initiated, and how they are trained.

EPISODE TWO: The adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi & Anakin Skywalker during the Clone Wars.

EPISODE THREE: The fall of Anakin and the destruction of the Republic.

EPISODE FOUR - A NEW HOPE: As is, obviously, since this outline was written after the film was made.

EPISODE FIVE - THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: As is, for the most part.

EPISODE SIX: The search for Han Solo. Confrontation with Jabba. Leia is made queen of her remaining people. Han dies in the climactic battle with the Empire. Luke confronts and defeats Vader. There is no Death Star #2. Aside from Vader's dying redemption the film has a downbeat ending. With Han dead and Leia stuck governing a society, Luke is alone.

EPISODE SEVEN: Luke's further training as a Jedi (presumably with a still-alive Yoda) and his various adventures as he battles the Empire alongside the Rebels.

EPISODE EIGHT: The appearance of Luke's sister.

EPISODE NINE: Luke confronts and destroys the Emperor, effectively ending the Galactic Civil War.


Basically, here's what happened. Lucas was exhausted after making the first two films and was also going through a rough divorce at the time. Long story short, he was tired of everything............including Star Wars. So the initial plan of making NINE films went down the tubes. Instead of making Episodes 6-9 (and then 1-3) over the period of two decades, he just decided to end the series with Episode 6 and focus on the prequel trilogy at some point on down the line. So the basic plot points of the sequel trilogy were crammed into Episode 6.

What we end up with in the existing film is Han being rescued from Jabba the Hutt during the beginning sequence, along with the introduction of the Emperor. Leia and the unknown sister of Luke are combined into one character. Yoda tells Luke his training is complete and then dies. Luke confronts and defeats Vader. Luke confronts the Emperor. Vader kills the Emperor. Vader is redeemed. The war is over.

Return of the Jedi has the plots of FOUR FILMS all rolled into one. So what keeps it from being universally hated? #1, it is well made. #2, Lucas didn't write it, Larry Kasdan did. And important of all, #3.....it is full of characters we have come to love during the first two films.

The absolute BIGGEST problem that the prequels had was the fact that Lucas wrote them all by himself for the most part. Granted he wrote the script for A New Hope as well, but he has freely admitted over the years to taking advice (and even rewrite help) from many of his filmmaking friends on it. That and he'd been working on it for years. Empire & Jedi were written with the help of an actual screenwriter, which helped a lot. George is a great storyteller, but not a great screenwriter. There is a difference. By not being able to fully put the characters he envisioned on the page for the prequels, he'd already lost the battle. You see, George has never been very good with actors. He just pretty much expects them to interpret everything he writes in the way that he sees it in his head...............without giving them any guidance on set. Harrison Ford has stated this on numerous occasion. On set, George is way more concerned with the technical aspects of the film than anything else. So what do you get when you have a poorly written script (in terms of character development) and little-to-no direction on set in terms of the actors? Wooden and uninspired performances. If the audience isn't invested in the characters, then they can't really ever been invested in the story. What makes it even worse is the that effects look cartoonish for the most part (both then and now), which means Lucas failed on both fronts. When I recently rewatched the prequel trilogy, I realized that many (and I do mean MANY) sequences in all three films look as though they could easily have been pulled straight out of the current CGI TV series. CGI sequences that could (and should) have been done practically are stuffed all throughout the prequels, given them an extremely artificial (no pun intended) feel. There virtually no sense of wonder or danger in most of the action sequences. So we have uninspired actors going through the motions in blandly cartoonish action sequences.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the prequels (and love the OT). I'm just pointing out what I realize as a fan everytime I watch them. And what is that? Wasted potential. A ton of wasted potential. While I would never advocate the OT films being remade, I don't think I'd have a problem with the prequel trilogy being redone twentysome years from now. Of course I guess remaking one trilogy leads to redoing the other, so I guess it's better left alone. Still, it's always fun to imagine what could have been with both the prequels and the never-to-be-made sequel trilogy. Moreso the former than the latter, simply because I prefer the character arc of Vader culminating in him destroying the Emperor as his redemption.


P.S. - I'm tired of people saying that Vader finally restored balance to the force in ROTJ. Not so. He did it in Revenge of the Sith. The Jedi did indeed interpret the prophecy wrongly. You see, thousands of Jedi paired with two Sith is no balance. Anakin brought balance to the force by slaughtering his fellow Jedi................leaving the balance as Obi-Wan & Yoda against Palpatine & Vader. He balanced it again in ANH by killing Obi-Wan, again leaving only two Jedi (Luke & Yoda) against the two Sith. Yoda dies in ROTJ, so Vader balances it yet again by killing the Emperor. Only at the end of the film is the Force out of balance once more, with their being two Jedi (Luke and potentially Leia) and no Sith. But then one could argue that the balance lies with Luke. Like a Sith, Luke is passionate about "material" things that he finds important (friends & family). Unlike the Sith, however, he rejects their selfish power-seeking ways. Like a Jedi, he is courageous in the face of mortal danger and compassionate when it comes to the needs of others. Unlike them, however, he realizes the need for loved ones in his life.
post #144 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post
EPISODE ONE: It was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights, how they are initiated, and how they are trained.

EPISODE TWO: The adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi & Anakin Skywalker during the Clone Wars.

EPISODE THREE: The fall of Anakin and the destruction of the Republic.

EPISODE FOUR - A NEW HOPE: As is, obviously, since this outline was written after the film was made.

EPISODE FIVE - THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: As is, for the most part.

EPISODE SIX: The search for Han Solo. Confrontation with Jabba. Leia is made queen of her remaining people. Han dies in the climactic battle with the Empire. Luke confronts and defeats Vader. There is no Death Star #2. Aside from Vader's dying redemption the film has a downbeat ending. With Han dead and Leia stuck governing a society, Luke is alone.

EPISODE SEVEN: Luke's further training as a Jedi (presumably with a still-alive Yoda) and his various adventures as he battles the Empire alongside the Rebels.

EPISODE EIGHT: The appearance of Luke's sister.

EPISODE NINE: Luke confronts and destroys the Emperor, effectively ending the Galactic Civil War.
God I would have LOVED to see this version of the series. on a Side note, Bob where did you find these outlines?

I've always felt that once Gary Kurtz left the series, George lost the only guy who could tell him "NO THATS A BAD IDEA" Don't even get me started on Richard McCallum
post #145 of 187
What's really revealing is reading the Making of Star Wars book and how the early drafts of Star Wars were filled with all the political stuff that found its way into the prequels. And how Lucas' friends at the time -- such as Coppola and Spielberg -- helped him weed out all the junk and streamline the story. No one had that level of influence by the time he was writing the prequels.
post #146 of 187
That nine episode outline sounds even worse than what we got. From the information given, the "original" episode one has even less to do with the main story than the actual episode one does. And even with elements from four episodes crammed into episode six, Jedi's story still felt slight.
post #147 of 187
Are we still talking about this? Geez, I can't help myself...

Phantom Menance accomplishes nothing. Everything the movie sets up is either negated, or has to be re-explained, by AOTC. The prequels could have began with AOTC. Episode 2 could have been Revenge of the Sith, without pregnant Padme, up until the raid on the Jedi Temple, with more of the Clone Wars. Padme would given birth between movies and Episode 3, then, would have been all the Empire establishing/Jedi purge, ending with the big Anakin/Obi-Wan fight.

Of course hindsight is 20/20 and this is pointless fanwank. In this fantasy world I've created the prequels would also require better writing and acting, so what's the point of speculating? John Ostrander did such a good job with the Clone Wars comic series that I can't help but see the movies as lesser parts of a bigger story.

I would not have wanted episodes 7-9, however, as I think ROTJ did a fine job. Maybe if the big Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation had been on Coruscant (like originally planned), with Kashyyk as the moon (or something) that could have improved things. I never minded the Luke/Leia twin revelation as a plot point so much as the lazy explanation Obi-Wan gives (with the lazy ending of ROTS as a result).

Besides, the post-ROTJ Marvel Comics, Timothy Zahn trilogy, and Dark Empire serve as a surrogate Ep. 7-9 for me that no movies could have matched.

Just let the movies go and play more KOTOR.
post #148 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I'm getting in a hissy fit for my son and Lucas' sake. Imagine when he is my age and he watches the Prequels and wants his money back plus interest on the purchase I just made?

Fuck. That could add up.
Well, but you and your son saw the Prequels at different points of your life. Won't be surprised if he grew up with a fondness for them, but growing to enjoy the older ones more.
post #149 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
What's really revealing is reading the Making of Star Wars book and how the early drafts of Star Wars were filled with all the political stuff that found its way into the prequels. And how Lucas' friends at the time -- such as Coppola and Spielberg -- helped him weed out all the junk and streamline the story. No one had that level of influence by the time he was writing the prequels.
That's a fantastic book, indeed.
post #150 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
God I would have LOVED to see this version of the series. on a Side note, Bob where did you find these outlines?

I've always felt that once Gary Kurtz left the series, George lost the only guy who could tell him "NO THATS A BAD IDEA" Don't even get me started on Richard McCallum
Just search online for "Gary Kurtz" and "Episode 7". You'll come across a couple of interviews done with him around the time of the release of the Special Editions and The Phantom Menace. Kurtz left after Jedi because he felt George was compromising the original plan they had for the saga's story.......so he went off and helped Henson out with The Dark Crystal instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
What's really revealing is reading the Making of Star Wars book and how the early drafts of Star Wars were filled with all the political stuff that found its way into the prequels. And how Lucas' friends at the time -- such as Coppola and Spielberg -- helped him weed out all the junk and streamline the story. No one had that level of influence by the time he was writing the prequels.
Yep. You can thank Coppola, Spielberg, Milius, De Palma, Scorese, and a handful of others for helping him weed that stuff out of the first film............Gary Kurtz & Lawrence Kasdan for keeping it out of Empire and Jedi. It always seemed to me that Lucas went back to his notes for the prequels and out of the material that had yet to be used, he picked what was least interesting (the politics, as opposed to the adventure) and ran with it. I still wish to this that he'd brought Kasdan back in to help out with the screenplays for the prequels.
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