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Chud Book Club - Blood Meridian

post #1 of 35
6/11/08 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Or the Evening Redness in the West, by Cormac McCarthy.

I just started this, so I'm putting it on the menu for the four or so book club people, using my authority as...uh, well, whatever. Cowboys. Indians. McCarthy. Substantial eye-socket directed violence. It seems to have it all already, and I'm only on chapter 2.

First question that must be asked of any who read or have read it: who plays the Judge in your mind? After his first appearance, I'm kind of going with Kevin Durand, with a bit longer of a head and grey complexion.
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post #2 of 35
6/11/08 at 2:08pm
I read this a couple years back, but I would definitely be interested in picking it up again, as I'd love to see what I could pick out of it this time. It's a great book.

However, I would like to finish Iron Council first, so when would you want us to have Blood Meridian read?
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post #3 of 35
6/11/08 at 2:19pm
Possibly my favorite book. The only person I have been able to think suitable for the Judge is a resurrected Marlon Brando.
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post #4 of 35
6/11/08 at 2:38pm
Oh, and to answer the original question (which I neglected to do my initial post), the Judge is portrayed by Woody Strode, circa Once Upon a Time in the West.
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post #5 of 35
6/12/08 at 1:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Olson View Post
However, I would like to finish Iron Council first, so when would you want us to have Blood Meridian read?
Well, the great thing about threads is that they can always be bumped, so it doesn't really matter all that much. How about "next"?

What is this Iron Council, btw? Worth checking out?
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post #6 of 35
6/12/08 at 10:18am
I have to reread Steinbeck's THE PEARL first.
BLOOD MERIDIAN is on my radar but frankly I'll be lucky if I get to it before the summer's end.
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post #7 of 35
6/12/08 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
What is this Iron Council, btw? Worth checking out?
Iron Council is the third novel from author China Mieville. It's a "weird fantasy" novel, meaning that it's fantasy, but it doesn't contain any of the usual Tolkienesque trappings people usually associate with the genre.

This Wiki page will probably give a better summary of the book than I could (beware of spoilers, though).

Personally, I think it's worth checking out, because the guy is an incredible writer, and the book is nothing like the Dragonlance shit that most people think of when they think fantasy.
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post #8 of 35
6/12/08 at 10:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark View Post
I have to reread Steinbeck's THE PEARL first.
BLOOD MERIDIAN is on my radar but frankly I'll be lucky if I get to it before the summer's end.
No offense, but you think The Pearl is going to take you 2 months? Isn't it like 18 pages?
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post #9 of 35
6/12/08 at 11:39pm
I've never done anything with the book club before, but I've wanted to read BM for a while now and would gladly join up for this one.
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post #10 of 35
6/26/08 at 11:30am
BM is amazing. The volcano flashback sequence...
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post #11 of 35
6/26/08 at 1:01pm
Just got it from the library today. I'll be starting on it as soon as I finish Choke (which should be today).
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post #12 of 35
6/26/08 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
Finished yesterday. Fucking brutal all the way through. I know there are different theories about what the judge did to the man at the end (and sexual assault does make sense given the mention of his nakedness), but I'm of the opinion that the particulars aren't too important. Point is, it was BBBBBad.

Two questions for anyone. What did you make of the epilogue, and are the rumors of Ridley Scott making a movie out of it still going around?
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post #13 of 35
6/26/08 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
Two questions for anyone. What did you make of the epilogue, and are the rumors of Ridley Scott making a movie out of it still going around?
I actually spoke about this with one of my English professors back when I first read the book, as he is a HUGE McCarthy fan (basically turned me on to the guy's work). My interpretation of the epilogue was that the Kid was in Hell, and the Judge was the Devil, forcing everyone to dance for his amusement. The prof agreed that's probably as good an interpretation as any, though only if you're willing to look at it in a somewhat less literal light.

Beyond that, though, I'm still a bit unsure of that bit at the end.
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post #14 of 35
6/26/08 at 3:03pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, by the epilogue I meant the last page with the man spiking holes in the desert.

Spoiler, I guess?
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post #15 of 35
6/26/08 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
Yeah, by the epilogue I meant the last page with the man spiking holes in the desert.

Spoiler, I guess?
D'oh! Sorry. I'll spoiler text my post.
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post #16 of 35
6/26/08 at 3:40pm
One of the best books ever. Swipe for my thoughts on the end...

I take the Judge to be a supernatural being who simply enjoys and destroys. The epilogue is the arrival of the man (or thing) that will finally end The Judge's reign.

This opinion isn't 100% original. Harold Bloom kind of helped me get to it. However, it is my favorite way of looking at the book.

Also, this may sound stupid but think about it...
The Judge should be a CG character. Motion Capture. Airbrushed perfection. As feature-less a face as possible. The Judge should look somewhat alien compared to the humans around him. Not just cleaner and white and bald, but fundamentally separate and above.
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post #17 of 35
6/26/08 at 4:12pm
Thread Starter 
I don't think it's necessary to make the judge CG for all that. Practical effects and make-up have made people seem otherwordly and monstrous for decades.
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post #18 of 35
6/26/08 at 4:19pm
Yeah, I know. This is a rare case for me cause I truly love practical effects work. However, the physical shortcomings of CG might actually be a benefit if it can put The Judge into Uncanny Valley territory.
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post #19 of 35
6/26/08 at 4:22pm
Plus, CG would allow for my fantasy-casting of a beefy Telly Savalas.
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post #20 of 35
6/26/08 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Ving Rhames + Whiteface
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post #21 of 35
6/26/08 at 4:30pm
Face-amended Michael Berryman. Voiced by Kevin Costner.
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post #22 of 35
6/26/08 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
Finished yesterday. Fucking brutal all the way through. I know there are different theories about what the judge did to the man at the end (and sexual assault does make sense given the mention of his nakedness), but I'm of the opinion that the particulars aren't too important. Point is, it was BBBBBad.

Two questions for anyone. What did you make of the epilogue, and are the rumors of Ridley Scott making a movie out of it still going around?
->I agree, whatever he did to the kid is essentially irrelevent. The fact that it shakes those who see the result is what's important.

A man making his way across the plain, digging post holes, leaving a trail of light, and gathering followers just on the edge of the light as he goes. I took it as the slow lonely trek of civilization and reason making its way amongst the chaos and darkness of that world. To be vague, so as not to give anything away for those who haven't read it, I think this interpretation gels with a certain thing the Father says to the Son in The Road.<-
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post #23 of 35
7/2/08 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
So according to imdb, the movie is in production for 2009, with no real info except that William Monaghan wrote the script (which is a nugget of awesome, to be sure). That site is not really to be trusted on this kind of thing though, right?
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post #24 of 35
7/2/08 at 9:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Dnim View Post
->I agree, whatever he did to the kid is essentially irrelevent. The fact that it shakes those who see the result is what's important.

A man making his way across the plain, digging post holes, leaving a trail of light, and gathering followers just on the edge of the light as he goes. I took it as the slow lonely trek of civilization and reason making its way amongst the chaos and darkness of that world. To be vague, so as not to give anything away for those who haven't read it, I think this interpretation gels with a certain thing the Father says to the Son in The Road.<-
I always assumed the epilogue was about the start of the railroad, that it was describing the groundwork for laying the tracks. Given the treatment of the laborers, and that one of the main themes of the novel was dismantling the notion that American expansion was a noble enterprise, I never felt like the epilogue was hopeful. Not that I have anything more to back that up than a feeling.

Also- I usually hate casting talk dedicated to finding a physical match to a character description or previous depiction. I find the Judge is no exception. I know the way he is described is important and has meaning, we're not talking about the color of Batman's body armor here, but it's certainly not necessary to get across what the character is. I mean, when we start mentioning things like CG I think maybe we need to take a step back from slavish devotion to the page.
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post #25 of 35
7/6/08 at 11:36am
I say Blood Meridian is tops in the McCarthy canon.

Sid Haig was my reading Judge.

I tracked down a few critical texts in pursuit of the epilogue question and one that I found was a great explanation. I'll try to track it down.
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post #26 of 35
7/13/08 at 10:59pm
Just finished it, and holy crap. Definitely some of the most violent imagery I've ever read. The scalping scenes, the way McCarthy describes the various methods the Glanton Gang used to dispatch every indian in the encampments, women and children included, sent waves of disgust up and down my spine. I guess that proves he's effective at writing, but man, that took a lot out of me. I actually had to walk away from the book for a while and read some much more light-hearted fare before I came back to finish it.

My stand-in for the judge was a hairless John Goodman, for what it's worth. Overall, I'll say it was incredibly well written, but after the subject matter, I'm taking a break from the heavy shit for a while.
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post #27 of 35
10/3/08 at 2:58pm
Just finished this, and it now is tied with A Prayer for Owen Meany as my favorite novel.

One of the most striking things I felt about this story was that it transported me to my early youth, when I had no idea what timeframe cowboy stories took place in. Could have been 100 years ago, or 1000. Some weird alternate dimension imagined by Sergio Leone where King's Gunslinger could exist handily, particularly the display of the judge with his horrific parasol and fool.

That said, I am in agreement with Chris Olson in that the judge is an allegorical Satan, however not quite as defined by western religion. I do also like and tend to agree with Sam in that the character in the epilogue is the judge's end.

John Quade (particularly from Josey Wales) was the judge in my mind's eye, I do like the pick of Brando as well.
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post #28 of 35
10/3/08 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Page View Post
One of the most striking things I felt about this story was that it transported me to my early youth, when I had no idea what timeframe cowboy stories took place in. Could have been 100 years ago, or 1000. Some weird alternate dimension
I particularly liked the way the landscape was described in terms that emphasized its alien quality. It erased any notion the reader may have of familiarity with the old west; made it seem dangerous, rather than romantic.

Philosophically I think this relates to what the Judge represents. A universe with too much inherent strife and conflict to support a religious ideology that offers any sort of spiritual comfort. Something older than Christianity. We are adrift on a rock, and if there are forces superior to us they are just as flawed, chaotic, and destructive as we are.
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post #29 of 35
12/25/09 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
BM is amazing. The volcano flashback sequence...
This. I will wait to read further since I have to finish less than 100 pages.
This scene is incredible.
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post #30 of 35
12/30/09 at 12:09pm
I just wanted to link some takes on this http://www.avclub.com/articles/harol...eridian,29214/ http://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/28/bo...-meridian.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009...idian-digested
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post #31 of 35
1/10/10 at 5:36pm
http://goo.gl/4hiY
Great discussion ahead.
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post #32 of 35
1/19/10 at 9:13pm
Roger Ebert has said a couple of times that his pick to play the Judge would be Tom Noonan.



This is my claim, he said. And yet everywhere upon it are pockets of autonomous life. Autonomous. In order for it to be mine nothing must be permitted to occur upon it save by my dispensation.

Yeah, I can see it.
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post #33 of 35
1/19/10 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Akodon View Post
http://goo.gl/4hiY
Great discussion ahead.
FYI, that links back to this thread.
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post #34 of 35
1/19/10 at 9:59pm
I would definitely love to see Noonan take a crack at The Judge. Good call, Ebert.
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post #35 of 35
1/20/10 at 2:25am
"A great shambling mutant, silent and serene..."

Like others in this thread, I do picture Brando, specifically Kurtz Brando, bald and mad and profound. But Noonan would nail the creepiness. He would play the Judge quietly, and damn, the thought of him doing that dance at the end loosens the bowels a little.

If he weren't long dead, I'd vote for Julian Beck:



which would scare the fuck out of the entire planet.
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