Get Used to $4 Gas - Page 2

Just a quick question, back in Year 10 Science (when I was 15, so about 7 years ago) we were discussing the finite supply of fossil fuels. Oil was said to reach a topping off point in 2020 if expenditure was maintained and after this point Oil would become harder to get and find.

Is this still the case? Or have their been new studies?

There have been new technologies. Also, the higher price of oil makes going after difficult-to-reach reserves worth it. Spending $80 to extract a barrel of oil worth $30 makes no sense. Spending $80 to extract a barrel of oil worth $120 does make sense. So in a way the more expensive oil gets, the more of it there will be.

To a point.

Where can I get 4 dollar gas? It's almost 5 here.

I could easily get used to $4 gas. It'd be 2005 all over again!

I hope everyone here realizes that all this sturm and drang about bans on offshore drilling is all completely shady market manipulation...

The oil companies are currently leasing almost 50 million acres of oil reserves and only in production on 13 million. They have 44 million acres off shore and are only drilling on 11 million. The wells as the Navy oil reserve are capped.

The oil companies have 28,000 drilling permits but are only using 19,000.

They have the resources right now to drill for oil anywhere they want, but they want is more land to sit on to further manipulate the price for when it shoots up to $200/barrel and beyond.

I can understand Newt Gingrich coming out of the woodwork to do some heavy lifting to keep his oil friends on a paying basis, but I can't understand what would possess McCain to get sucked into this circle jerk.

I have heard this from lots of different sources now. Democrats in Congress are using this as the argument for why opening up more areas off-shore and in ANWR is unnecessary. If what you've written is true, the oil companies have a lot of explaining to do. If there is sufficient oil to be drilled on the lands covered by the current leases, what's the problem with drilling there first before opening up more environmentally sensitive areas to exploration and drilling?

Now, if there are good reasons not to use the existing leases, the oil companies and the Republicans in support of opening more areas to drilling need to explain those reasons. Is the oil there too difficult to reach? Are there environmental concerns? Is the oil there used up or non-existent? Absent a good explanation, the oil companies need to finish the damn piece of pie sitting on their plates before demanding an even bigger slice.

Spot on, jvc. Would that you were the news chief at CNN.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...thanol-brewers

Are Backyard Ethanol Brewers an Answer to High-Priced Gas?

each one can make 35 gallons (132 liters) of ethanol a week, how many would you need?

their math seems to be off on the cost

So, I saw the movie last night and I'm not all that convinced it was some giant conspiracy by big oil or the government to kill the electric car.

First, you know those tax write-offs for the purchase of 6000 lb vehicles were for small business owners only, who could establish that they would use it at least 50% of the time for business? Congress screwed the pooch and forgot to increase the weight limit with the increase from $25k to 100K. It was part of Bush's plan to stimulate the economy and help small business owners thrive (it worked, they thrived).

Second.. I agree with the LA Times writer in the documentary. If GM could make a profit on a car that ran on pig shit it would. There just wasn't enough consumer demand for the car and its range was crap. Sure, it would have gotten better but that didn't mean there was consumer demand. For example, there were over a million PT Cruisers sold since it first hit the showrooms and they still discontinued that car.

I did like the end of the movie though and what other options there were.. I'm eager for the plug in hybrid. Overall, I only hated about 20% of the movie (a few key people) and cheered when they arrested Alexandra Paul.

Are you blind? Electric cars of todays have specs that are behind what the EV-1 had. 10-15 years ago. Just look at the frikkin ads for the electrical cars and deduct. It was the equivalent of movie dumping.

Are the cars of today prone to bursting into flames? According to the wiki page the EV-1 had a charging problem (and I remember reading about this years ago) that required them to be recalled. That type of press is a stigma that also will drive away consumers.

I wouldn't buy an EV-1. Tom Hanks little clip of him endorsing it and praising it said it got 90 miles to a charge? I go 50 miles a day from home to daycare to work and back. Not including any little trips to the park or the store or anything else. I also need something that isn't a two seater. I looked the RAV4 that they mentioned and it got 80-120 mile range. They opened it up to the general public and guess what?

Toyota, the people that sell the Prius couldn't sell the electric car.

People just don't want to be limited to such a short range. Have you ever been in a car with someone when the low fuel light goes on and starts beeping? Panic sets in.

You do something like what McCain did and setup a prize for people to shoot for. It worked for NASA and SpaceShipOne. (xprize

On a related note. I do want to know what happened to that battery that was developed by Stanford Ovshinsky. That was awefully fishy.

I'd love to see more viable alternative fuel options, but having worked in transportation services before and having a small fleet of vehicles that ran on compressed natural gas(in addition to hybrids and full-fuel vehicles), it was nothing short of a fucking nightmare due to mismanagement of and scarcity of fueling stations throughout the L.A. area. Sometimes the stations would be shut down, sometimes SoCal Gas wouldn't want to accept the card transactions, the entire thing was just a massive pain in the balls. Point is, fueling infrastructure is just as big of a deal as getting the vehicles with the new technology.

Not having seen the documentary and only having seen one single electric vehicle in this city (the aforementioned RAV-EV), I hope that the recharging infrastructure is adequate for the sake of anyone using these vehicles.

I wonder how the power grids will cope? Already states like Cali experience rolling brown outs.

Brown Outs? Sounds like a Mexican softball team.

Angry Kids Protest Gas Prices After Mom Cancels Cable TV
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,371230,00.html

The problem with oil companies not using the sources they have is that the market inherently is giving them reason not to do it.

A huge company isnt run by a one or two people deciding, based on their personal opinion, ethics etc., what to do. Usually once you run a decision through enough people, a purely efficiency-based, self-interested result is normal, as any individual qualms or issues with it are smothered by all the other people, who in turn have their personal opinions relegated to at best a note on the bottom of the meeting summary.

And nobody is at fault, because "the shareholders" decided, right?

Now, in simple terms, if an oil company is making a killing drilling ,for the sake of simplicity, 1 million barrels per day, at a cost of 30$, and can sell them, due to high demand etc. etc. etc. for 120$, thats pretty damn profitable.
Now, in order to feel convinced they should invest in more refineries, drilling platforms and whatever else is needed to open up new sources, that has to raise their bottomline by at least enough that they get more money out of it within a reasonable timeframe, say 4 years or so, than out of their current production.
Since Barrel prices would fall if there was more around, its simply not profitable, considering the investment needed to open up new oil sources, to produce more oil and have the price drop.

Individually, I am sure each of the major shareholder guys will claim they are interested in the good of the people, in lower gas prices, yadda yadda.
But as a sum of all decisions, the companies themselves will not change course without being forced.

Which is the point where governments must step in. Its bad enough a vital resource today is controlled entirely by corporate interests, but when they purposefully, or simply by acting like corporations have to act to protect the interests of their shareholders, cause financial problems for millions of people, thats the point at which someone with power has to do something, because thats how the entire system is supposed to work.

Capitalism doesnt really work well when it comes to vital resources, without governmental control or at least strong influence, because todays corporations arent really ABLE to act, I dont know, ethically. Its not an option, the way they are structured, with shareholders living all over the world, arguably not giving a damn for the misery of people in some different country.

I dont know how many times I need to say this.

2003 before Iraq Oil was $27 barrel now $140

The US Dollar is losing value every single day

We are threatening Iran which is a major producer of oil.

Is it such a mystery why prices are so high? Our weak currency and our government threatening places where oil comes from.


Why cant people understand this?

Alright, the bitch is back! It's seems like a positive aspect of the higher price fuel to me.

Senator recommends going back to a national speed limit.

Here's my personal experience:

* When national speed limit was 55 - 5 speeding tickets

* After national speed limit became state-regulated - 0 speeding tickets

The only thing changing the speed limit back to 55 is going to do is add to the amount of speeding ticket revenue state law enforcement collects.

Witchesbrew: now with more racism!

Because most of your oil comes from Mexico, Venezuela, and Canada. My gas comes from Canadian oil refined in the states and sold back to us at prices that would make Americans sharpen their sickles and storm the White House. The price of oil does not follow a simple supply-demand or cost-benefit pattern.

Yeah, "boo hoo, I'm paying almost $4 per gallon for gas"
In Canada right now, I'm paying over $5.

Hey! I agree with Dick Durbin on something!

CNN has a breaking headline that Bush is going to lift the executive ban on offshore drilling.

So now we get to wonder if this whole rising gas price fiasco was orchestrated to get the public frustrated enough to say, "Okay, fuck it, drill, we don't care."

More like pointless act, the congressional ban is still in effect and that isn't going anywhere until a new President is sworn in.

But McCain is for lifting the ban, Obama is against it. And if we're paying $5 a gallon for gas come election time....

Then the bans will be lifted and in mere years you may be ready to start refining the first batch out of those areas. If you have anywhere to refine it. Lifting bans won't help because the price of oil is not based on dwindling supply in any case.

I know that. You know that. Mr. Electorate doesn't necessarily know that.

Two reasons..

I read somewhere that It doesn't stop speculators in foreign markets

and

Because it's in the Obama ammunition depot. Election year, politicians politicize while people suffer.

Yeah, 'cause otherwise they completely commit themselves to solving all our problems.

9% approval rating.

My numbers are up!

...

By the way, it's Iran that is pushing this. http://www.shana.ir/133704-en.html.

Bump and Lulz.

Spectators lost the battle, but the war isn't over, they could return to those prices in a more stable economy due to spectator involvment once again.

I always said gas prices were dropping in a concerted effort to help the economy -- less money going out for gas meant more money available for holiday spending, which was good for everybody. Now that the holidays are over, I'm not the least bit surprised prices are inching back up.

Nah. Prices dropped because of 2 reasons. 1. Demand dropped and supply was high. 2. Dollar was stronger (in the past 6 months we have gone from record highs on Euro vs Dollar to record lows). Stronger dollar means we can buy more with less.

Prices are going back up as the dollar is getting weaker again (and OPEC cut production to reduce supply).

But the conspiracy, man, the conspiracy.

Yeah, yeah. If the conspiracy was really at work here, when gas prices dropped other commodities would have dropped at the same time (to reflect the lower transportation charges). That never happened (and it damn well should have happened). I'm *still* waiting for grocery shopping to get cheaper.

That's one of the consumer commodities that suffer from "sticky pricing", meaning they take a while to come back down as the effect of lower transportation (and fertilizer) prices become lower.

You and me both. My wife and I were just talking about this a week ago, and it's amazing how much our weekly tab has gone up in the past year. It doesn't help that the healthy stuff is more expensive than the junk food, but the prices on the bare essentials have gotten ridiculous.

Corn being used as fuel is still having an effect on food prices.

I work in finance (exchange traded commodity derivatives specifically) and receive a lot of research regarding the above on a regular basis. According to this research conventional oil production peaked in 2005 (if you are a pessimist) or will latest peak in 2014 (if you are an optimist).

Seabass is absolutely right that higher oil prices will increase the incentive to extract difficult-to-reach reserves but these fields will not compensate for the already depleted fields and will not change the fact that if we have not already peaked conventional oil production we will do so very soon.

Additionally the US has gone through peak gas production in 2001 and Canada in 2003, whilst Europe is expected to go through peak production this year, and most importantly of all China is expected to go through peak coal production in the next 2 or 3 years (China produces more than twice as much coal as the second largest producer in the world, the US, which itself produces more than twice as much coal as the third largest producer. By 2030 China’s coal production is expected to be down by about 1bn tons, effectively the same amount as the US in its entirety produces).

This will leave us with huge energy supply problems in the next few decades and increase energy prices significantly going forward. The current crisis and the slowed down growth will keep the prices lower for a certain period but it is expected that oil prices will go over $100bbl again fairly soon and obviously stay there and rise further. The same applies for gas, steel etc.

Realistically we therefore only have a couple decades to find alternative energy solutions. However, another problem is the amount of energy required to fully develop alternative energy solutions. We are therefore caught in a vicious circle.

Fortunately nuclear fusion now sounds achievable and over here in Europe they are currently building a new test reactor but it is not expected that this energy will be commercially available before 2050.

All in all it doesn't look very promising...