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The Death of Tim Russert

post #1 of 120
Thread Starter 
I know I shouldn't start criticizing the guy when his body isn't even cold yet and I understand the deification of him among his colleagues. I'm sure he was a really nice guy and a pleasure to work with. But watching this one NBC correspondent try to defend Russert's non-journalism regarding the Iraq war is absolutely ludicrous. He was saying things like "It was impossible to know at the time that Dick Cheney's assessments of the war would be wrong" or "Tim had the patience to let the history unfold and show the truth," just pushed me too far.

Tim Russert was bad at his job. He was a prime example of the problem with establishment media. As the NBC News Washington Bureau Chief and as the moderator of Meet the Press, he had the latitude to ask tough questions and not worry about his job or if his show would be able to bring back guests. But when Donald Rumsfeld said something like "We know where [the WMDs] are; they're to the north, south, east, and west of Tikrit," Russert didn't respond, "So is everything else. You just named all four cardinal directions."

Russert either didn't put 2 and 2 together or just didn't care when he had Cheney on Meet the Press and Cheney cited the story about WMDs in The New York Times when it was the Bush administration that planted that story.

I'm truly sorry that his friends and family have lost this important person in their lives, but the man was a bad journalist and we should be worried if more choose to follow his path of non-confrontation, pumping petty image-attacks, and putting politics before policy.
post #2 of 120
I never watched that sorta crap, but I wouldn't with a person dead.

However, regarding the Iraq War, it's nice to be able to sit there and say "well, sure, you can criticize now with the benefit of hindsight!"....which kinda forgets that there were MILLIONS OF FUCKING PEOPLE DEAD-SET AGAINST THE FUCKING INVASION BEFOREHAND

God, I need a drink now. Fuck politics, everyone is fucking assbag.
post #3 of 120
Great post, Matt, and you make some excellent points. The press has been (finally) on the ropes about Iraq lately, with the revelations of paid Pentagon spokesmen being trotted out as impartial "experts", McClellan's jabs at the White House press corps for being too fawning and acceptant of the party line, etc., ad nauseum. They are easily as bad as the Bush administration itself about not being able to admit a fucking mistake. Stephen Colbert's evisceration of them at that dinner really rankled them, I think, because it hit so close to home. Thank nonexistant Christ for Helen Thomas, at least.

But five'll getcha ten that when Obama gets elected they'll suddenly find their stones again and start actually hammering away at a Democratic administration.

Nevertheless, r.i.p. Tweety.
post #4 of 120
Of all the Bush enablers on the news, his was the death I wished for the least.
post #5 of 120
Well Matt, maybe you would have had the balls to tell the Secretary of Defence that he is a Goddamned liar to his face on national TV. Me, not so sure you would have. You also forget that every intelligence service in the West thought that Saddam had WMDs (Chemcial for sure, and there was no doubt that he wanted nukes). And that the atmosphere in this country was very different at that time. (Check out the book "Feet to the Fire". It's a series of interviews with journalists of all stripes, asking why the Press didn't push back on the Bushies. Every single journalist has a different explanation. These issues are a lot more complex than "U liked Iraq War so U SUx!")

So, Russert didn't overtly push for your view of the Iraq war. That makes him a bad journalist? I thought a journalist is supposed to be objective and ask questions, not bloviate his own opinions.

And you should look at the Meet the Press transcripts or podcasts from the last year..he was plenty tough on politcians of all stripes. He did his job damn well, and will be missed

RIP Mr Russert.
post #6 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Well Matt, maybe you have had the balls to tell the Secretary of Defence that he is a Goddamned liar to his face on national TV.
I'd do it.

Quote:
You also forget that every intelligence service in the West thought that Saddam had WMDs (Chemcial for sure, and there was no doubt that he wanted nukes).
This is false. Our government thought there might be some stray shells left over from the last war rotting in some wherehouse somewhere, but there was no active weapons programs running or in place. Canada officially didn't buy the White House's story. Who told you every western intelligence agency believed the White House?
post #7 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun View Post
Who told you every western intelligence agency believed the White House?
Every Bush administration official and apologist on TV for the last 2 years at least.
post #8 of 120
I don't know if the "Canadian Intelligence" agencies were consulted to be quite honest ...

Kind of bad timing for this to be quite honest, but not surprising. I think I'll hold off for a bit longer to read a reasonable analysis of what Mr. Russert did wrong or not. All I know is he was a great journalist in my view, an interesting interviewer that seemed passionate about his job and turned out a quality political sunday show.

In my view, he wasn't promoting the war, like his "counterpart" at FOX news. NBC as a whole didn't seem to me like an outfit that was trying to promote the war, could they have done more, sure. I do find it a bit hypocritical for people to say this now though when most of the people saying this did nothing to try to avert the war. In the end we were all fooled, and it is not the fault of Tim Russert that we got into that mess.
post #9 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
You also forget that every intelligence service in the West thought that Saddam had WMDs (Chemcial for sure, and there was no doubt that he wanted nukes).

Um, that's complete and utter horseshit.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Bush , Vice President Dick Cheney and other top officials promoted the invasion of Iraq with public statements that weren't supported by intelligence or that concealed differences among intelligence agencies, the Senate Intelligence Committee said on Thursday in a report that was delayed by bitter partisan infighting.
post #10 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
...and it is not the fault of Tim Russert that we got into that mess.
Nobody's blaming Russert for the goddam war, people are just saying that, even though he's passed away, we don't need to get into a headlong rush to canonize him as America's Non-Partisan Champion Journalist.
post #11 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Nobody's blaming Russert for the goddam war, people are just saying that, even though he's passed away, we don't need to get into a headlong rush to canonize him as America's Non-Partisan Champion Journalist.
Geez the horror!!!
post #12 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I don't know if the "Canadian Intelligence" agencies were consulted to be quite honest ...
I didn't say they were consulted, I said the claim that every intelligence service in the West thought that Saddam had WMDs is false.

Why did you put Canadian Intelligent in quotes of sarcasm? Seems the reverse is called for, since we were right and you were not.

Quote:
In my view, he wasn't promoting the war, like his "counterpart" at FOX news.
He didn't promote it, he just didn't question (much) the promotional speeches made on his show.

Quote:
In the end we were all fooled,
I wasn't.

Quote:
and it is not the fault of Tim Russert that we got into that mess.
Saying he didn't do his job as well as he should isn't blaming him for the mess you're in.
post #13 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Well Matt, maybe you have had the balls to tell the Secretary of Defence that he is a Goddamned liar to his face on national TV. Me, not so sure you would have. You also forget that every intelligence service in the West thought that Saddam had WMDs (Chemcial for sure, and there was no doubt that he wanted nukes). And that the atmosphere in this country was very different at that time. (Check out the book "Feet to the Fire". It's a series of interviews with journalists of all stripes, asking why the Press didn't push back on the Bushies. Every single journalist has a different explanation. These issues are a lot more complex than "U liked Iraq War so U SUx!")

So, Russert didn't overtly push for your view of the Iraq war. That makes him a bad journalist? I thought a journalist is supposed to be objective and ask questions, not bloviate his own opinions.

And you should look at the Meet the Press transcripts or podcasts from the last year..he was plenty tough on politcians of all stripes. He did his job damn well, and will be missed

RIP Mr Russert.
That was never my position. My position is that he didn't push when he had the space to do so. He wasn't some newbie that could lose his job if he did challenge Rumsfeld or Cheney. I would have done it less respectfully but I have no doubt that he could have followed-up his questions and not been offensive in doing so.

The problem about the Iraq War is that it wasn't a matter of opinions. There was the truth and there was the lie and the best I can give him is that perhaps he was still in a post-9/11 haze and didn't think that a U.S. Presidential administration would lie us into an unnecessary war.

Russert was always focusing on politics and never on policy. So rather than ask a question regarding the restoration of habeus corpus or perhaps closing down Guantanamo Bay, he asks questions about whether Barack Obama renounces, rejects, defeats, destroys Louis Farrakahan. And he did a similar thing back in 1988 with Michael Dukakis and his question about if Dukakis would still oppose the death penalty if his wife was raped and murdered? Andrea Mitchell was fawning over this question as if that was tough journalism when really it was all about the game of politics and perception. He didn't mind repeating smears or repeating leaked information because for him, that was the game. There was no introspection. There was just The Game and I think his approach became emblematic of our broken media.

Watching this coverage of his life on MSNBC, it becomes very clear that Russert was a nice guy and an enthusiastic guy, but he wasn't a journalist. He rarely followed-up and he was just as vulnerable to over-reacting to the right's accusations of liberal-bias as most of the mainstream media. Mr. Russet was objective in the same way that a hand-puppet is objective. He didn't espouse his own opinions but he never seemed to stop and question if he was being used as a tool to express the opinions of others.

The game of politics is entertaining but Russert put that game ahead of all else, at the expense of digging for the truth and asking question of substance and policy rather than of persona and relation to the American psyche.
post #14 of 120
Quote:
NBC as a whole didn't seem to me like an outfit that was trying to promote the war
I wonder how a network that's 80 percent owned by a major military contractor, General Electric, can possibly be trusted to give you the straight truth about the war? Even if they are telling us the truth, and it is to their eternal credit if that is the case, it is not to be simply assumed. That would be incredibly ill-advised. There's an inherent conflict of interests at work - or depending on your perspective, an inherent, bloody synergy.

Russert, may he rest in peace, was a part of this process. It is quite fair to ask him to shoulder some of the blame for the Iraq mess. Had he and others like him really asked powerful people the tough questions they should have been asking, at a time when it might have made a difference, things may have played out differently. This doesn't make his death anything to celebrate or take at all lightly... but it's important not to whitewash his faults out of a misplaced sense of respect. Any real journalist worth a damn would insist on an accurate analysis of his or her own life, faults and all, when the time comes for it. Russert's time, make no mistake, came far too soon.
post #15 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg View Post
I would have done it less respectfully but I have no doubt that he could have followed-up his questions and not been offensive in doing so.
Again, another great point. There was this moronic sense, after 9/11, that no one could press any of these guys about anything regarding the Glorious Leader's War on Terror, 'lest they be considered un-patriotic, , anti-American, or even worse, a (GASP) liberal. Hard questions can (indeed, NEED) to be asked under the circumstances we faced, and they can always be asked with all due respect to the office of the person being questioned, but NO ONE was up to the task. NO ONE.

At least, no one in the "liberal" MSM.
post #16 of 120
It's sad. Dead at 58.

There will be studies and stories and maybe even trials that will eventually connect the dots of culpability, because there's enough of it to go around, but I just can't go there on the eve of the poor guy's death.
post #17 of 120
Again, yt, I don't think anyone is piling on the guy here. I was genuinely shocked when I read the news. I think we're just trying to keep him in perspective, is all. Maybe my overall outrage is coloring my perception. If so, I apologize.

I fondly remember his appearances on The Daily Show, and his easy rapport with Jon Stewart, and I bet he'll be remembered fondly come Monday night at 11:00. My condolences to his family and colleagues.

But I still think he (and so, so many of his peers) dropped the ball...
post #18 of 120
I happen to agree with you (they all did, with a handful of exceptions), and I'm not admonishing you or anything. I just have a hard time being critical in the face of such a shocking, unfairly early demise.

And for levity ... why couldn't it have been O'Reilly?
post #19 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Well Matt, maybe you have had the balls to tell the Secretary of Defence that he is a Goddamned liar to his face on national TV. Me, not so sure you would have.
If you don't have the balls to do exactly that, then you have no business being a reporter talking to the Secretary of Defense on behalf of a major news organization. Jon Stewart gets to play that card, as he's a comedian who's pretending to be a newscaster. Tim Russert was actually a newscaster.

Any whitewashing of a passed journalist's shortcomings does a disservice to journalism in the name of a false sense of "respecting the dead". As the deceased was a leading journalist, I would expect he would want his passing to potentially lead to some sort of slightly greater understanding of The Truth, even one that is potentially not wholly flattering to himself. Truth-telling is not always pretty or pleasant or well-mannered, but it is the underlying ideal that drives any good reporter.
post #20 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie-wanker View Post
I wonder how a network that's 80 percent owned by a major military contractor, General Electric, can possibly be trusted to give you the straight truth about the war? Even if they are telling us the truth, and it is to their eternal credit if that is the case, it is not to be simply assumed. That would be incredibly ill-advised. There's an inherent conflict of interests at work - or depending on your perspective, an inherent, bloody synergy.
I haven't gotten any emails yet instructing us how we should promote the war to maximize profits, but I'll keep you posted when we find one. To say the least, NBC is very detached from the GE hive as are all the internal GE businesses. (stops there ...)

Now I do remember Matthews being strongly against the war during the build up for it, and out of all people, Pat Buchanan was on frequently with his consistent anti-war "conservative" message. So again, I don't see it.
post #21 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
And for levity ... why couldn't it have been O'Reilly?

Now THIS I can get behind.
post #22 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg View Post
That was never my position. My position is that he didn't push when he had the space to do so. He wasn't some newbie that could lose his job if he did challenge Rumsfeld or Cheney. I would have done it less respectfully but I have no doubt that he could have followed-up his questions and not been offensive in doing so.

The problem about the Iraq War is that it wasn't a matter of opinions. There was the truth and there was the lie and the best I can give him is that perhaps he was still in a post-9/11 haze and didn't think that a U.S. Presidential administration would lie us into an unnecessary war.

Russert was always focusing on politics and never on policy. So rather than ask a question regarding the restoration of habeus corpus or perhaps closing down Guantanamo Bay, he asks questions about whether Barack Obama renounces, rejects, defeats, destroys Louis Farrakahan. And he did a similar thing back in 1988 with Michael Dukakis and his question about if Dukakis would still oppose the death penalty if his wife was raped and murdered? Andrea Mitchell was fawning over this question as if that was tough journalism when really it was all about the game of politics and perception. He didn't mind repeating smears or repeating leaked information because for him, that was the game. There was no introspection. There was just The Game and I think his approach became emblematic of our broken media.

Watching this coverage of his life on MSNBC, it becomes very clear that Russert was a nice guy and an enthusiastic guy, but he wasn't a journalist. He rarely followed-up and he was just as vulnerable to over-reacting to the right's accusations of liberal-bias as most of the mainstream media. Mr. Russet was objective in the same way that a hand-puppet is objective. He didn't espouse his own opinions but he never seemed to stop and question if he was being used as a tool to express the opinions of others.

The game of politics is entertaining but Russert put that game ahead of all else, at the expense of digging for the truth and asking question of substance and policy rather than of persona and relation to the American psyche.
Russert was a political operative before he got into journalism and there is no question that he loved the game of politics and focused his coverage around that subject. He did not expose his own opinion because that is not what a journalist is supposed to do. A Journalist (Capital J) probes for the truth behind current events (that does not guarantee that he will uncover it!).

So, foreign policy was not his bag, which (in your eyes) was a liability in the run up to the Iraq war. Fine. That does not make him a hand puppet. In fact one could argue domestic politics had a lot more to do with the war than foreign policy

And sorry guys, I really do not believe that, faced with the VP of the US, or Rumsfeld, you would be nearly as pushy as you are here on the Internet. Just don't.

I think a lot of people on this board have faulty memories about this country after 911. The US was not a hotbed of rationalism after that event: the fear and the need for revenge were palpable. I think that terrified/angry herd mentality is more responsible for us going into Iraq than the evil puppet head media (Formerly known as the Liberal Media)
post #23 of 120
Whomever says that Russert wasn't a journalist NEEDS to "write" for an internet film site.
post #24 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Now THIS I can get behind.
And throw in Coulter while you're at it
post #25 of 120
toosoon
post #26 of 120
Really? Today's the time for this? Unbelievable, his family is still in Italy or at best, in mid-air.
post #27 of 120
post #28 of 120
And who can forget this moment;
post #29 of 120
Yep, no Questioning of Authority there....
post #30 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
I think a lot of people on this board have faulty memories about this country after 911. The US was not a hotbed of rationalism after that event: the fear and the need for revenge were palpable. I think that terrified/angry herd mentality is more responsible for us going into Iraq than the evil puppet head media (Formerly known as the Liberal Media)
Really, because I thought the Bush administration was responsible for us going into Iraq.

We all remember 9/11 and we all know that there was a lot of uncertainty. However, America was united in the invasion of Afghanistan and removing the Taliban and hunting down Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden. But maybe you forgot the massive protests on the day the war started or that no one in the media seemed to be asking obvious questions like "Why would a jihadist extremist like Bin Laden team up with a secular dictator like Saddam Hussein as opposed to, oh, I don't know, Saudi Arabia where Bin Laden was born and where 17 or the 19 hijackers were from. Oh shit, they have the oil we need...nevermind.

A journalist (the capitalization is irrelevant) does probe for truth and one of the key complaints against Russert is that he never did that. He would take a step in the direction of the truth but he just couldn't seem to follow-up; to point out that these politicians were contradicting themselves or expertise that didn't agree with their wishful thinking.

Again, I don't mean to cast disgrace on Russert as a man. As I've said previously, he seemed like a nice and well-liked guy. But I find his legacy disturbing and worthy of discussion.
post #31 of 120
He was a good guy, but his rep as a journalist who never let his guests get away with being phoney is overblown. When they get around to it, I hope they fill that seat with someone who really turns up the heat on the interviewee. If the fiasco of the last seven years have taught us anything it's that being hard on people with the power to end thousands of lives with their decisions is far from impolite or bad form. It's the very least we can expect from the Fourth Estate.

Still, he seemed like a decent man and the reaction to his passing from those who knew him best bespeaks someone who left a lot of good in his wake. Being human, as we all are, that's not a bad thing to leave behind.

By the way, Jacob. Chris Matthews is Tweety. Russert is Timmeh.
post #32 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouradio View Post
By the way, Jacob. Chris Matthews is Tweety. Russert is Timmeh.

Ack. There goes my first Mea Culpa.
post #33 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Yep, no Questioning of Authority there....
Your idea of "questioning authority" and mine may differ just ever-so-slightly...
post #34 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Yep, no Questioning of Authority there....

That's
what I've been saying.

I'll just close out with a quote:

Quote:
Former Vice-Presidential communications director Cathie Martin: I suggested we put the vice president on 'Meet the Press,' which was a tactic we often used. It's our best format.
post #35 of 120
Yeah, I don't get why Russert's being lionized as some tough-talking firebrand rebel either. He rolled over more often than a childhood pet.

I'll give him thanks for not being a complete asskiss, I guess, but to pretend he was anything but an enabler half of the time is putting lipstick on a pig.
post #36 of 120
Sorry he's dead from the whole "I'm an empathic human being" aspect but Matt's right. Let's not act like he's Murrow.
post #37 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Really? Today's the time for this? Unbelievable, his family is still in Italy or at best, in mid-air.
haha, and? You think they're logging in to chud and seeing this?
post #38 of 120
Mama Russert, we're sorry!

Also, this is mild and extremely reasoned compared to some of the shit I've read today in comments on political blogs (on both ends of the spectrum), so you can take your concern trolling elsewhere.
post #39 of 120
Now I'm kinda sad I didn't make that whiteboard joke I debated with myself about.
post #40 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
In the end we were all fooled
Bear with me as I quote myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
there were MILLIONS OF FUCKING PEOPLE DEAD-SET AGAINST THE FUCKING INVASION BEFOREHAND
post #41 of 120
For emphasis...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
"well, sure, you can criticize now with the benefit of hindsight!"....which kinda forgets that there were MILLIONS OF FUCKING PEOPLE DEAD-SET AGAINST THE FUCKING INVASION BEFOREHAND
Iraq apologists, go fuck yourself hard and repeatedly.

Or, if that's something you'd enjoy, don't.
post #42 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg View Post

That's
what I've been saying.

I'll just close out with a quote:
Yeah I read and enjoy Huffington Post too. But the main complaint in those posts (all from 2005?) is not that Russert didn’t ask the right questions, but that he didn’t follow-up enough or in the manner HufPost would prefer. (just like some of the posters on this page).

Should Russert have spent his limited time with Dick Cheney going round and round on two questions? Until he got the answers HufPost would have liked? And knowing that if he did so he’d never see Cheney or any other administration official on this show again? In which case Meet the Press is no longer a journalism show but is simply a propaganda forum. Much like Huffington Post at times. Russerts’s responsibility as a journalist means he needs to get the maximum response to the largest array of questions in the 45 minutes or so (without commercials) that he has available to him.

Look at that clip of Russert and Mike Huckabee and you see how the man worked He asked Huckabee about Gay marriage. Got a flimsey answer. Followed up with a question about Gays adopting children. Got an answer to the effect of “what’s best for the child should determine whether a Gay couple ca adopt”. Russert then asks if “best interests” can include being adopted by a Gay couple, to which Huckabee basically said “no way”. Russert got some very important information from the candidate without brow beating him, hectoring OR leading the audience to conclusions he (Tim Russert) thought they should have. Which is what a journalist is supposed to do.
post #43 of 120
I'm curious to hear the names of mainstream journalists out there with access to both sides of politics would ask the questions and hector guests like some here want.

Is there anyone out there?

Not the ex-ESPN guy.....he has no audience and is about as mainstream as the hosts of Attack of the Show on G4.
post #44 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Should Russert have spent his limited time with Dick Cheney going round and round on two questions? Until he got the answers HufPost would have liked? And knowing that if he did so he’d never see Cheney or any other administration official on this show again? In which case Meet the Press is no longer a journalism show but is simply a propaganda forum.
What's the point of maintaining your access to powerful people if you lose any ability to produce information from them?

Also, it doesn't matter at all what you think you or anybody would've done in his place. Even if you're right, and we all would've folded like a card table in his position in 2002, we would be just as wrong to do so. He failed to live up to the responsibilities of his job, and in consequence, allowed some really terrible things to happen*.

*Of course, this is a criticism that can be leveled at any number of media figures, many of whose failures were more extreme than Russert's. And I'm not happy that he's dead by any means
post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post
I'm curious to hear the names of mainstream journalists out there with access to both sides of politics would ask the questions and hector guests like some here want.

Is there anyone out there?

Not the ex-ESPN guy.....he has no audience and is about as mainstream as the hosts of Attack of the Show on G4.
By the ex-ESPN guy, you mean Olbermann, right? Because the last time I checked, his numbers were higher than O' Reilly's.
post #46 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
What's the point of maintaining your access to powerful people if you lose any ability to produce information from them?

Also, it doesn't matter at all what you think you or anybody would've done in his place. Even if you're right, and we all would've folded like a card table in his position in 2002, we would be just as wrong to do so. He failed to live up to the responsibilities of his job, and in consequence, allowed some really terrible things to happen*.

*Of course, this is a criticism that can be leveled at any number of media figures, many of whose failures were more extreme than Russert's. And I'm not happy that he's dead by any means
You missed my point. I'm arguing that Russert got a LOT of information out of his guests: what he did NOT do is push an agenda of his own or force his guests to spell out in an obvious way their positions. He allowed his guests to answer the question (honestly or not) and let you the viewer decide what you thought of those answers.

So I disagree with your statement that becuase we went to war, therefore Russert (and all journalists) failed. They asked questions that were answered, sometimes honestly, many times not.

Really a lot of you guys seem to think a journalist is someone who propagandises for your opinions (if they don't agree with you they are "puppets", "tools" etc) . Well, just like millions of people oppossed the war, millions more either supported it or did not activelly oppose it.

And guess what? It's 2008 and we are in Iraq! And we have the opportunity to bring change to this country in the form of John McCain or the shape of Barack Obama. And aside from the debates (which so far have been a farce) hard questions have been lobbed at all the candidates (see that clip with Mike Huckabee above as an example)
post #47 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
By the ex-ESPN guy, you mean Olbermann, right? Because the last time I checked, his numbers were higher than O' Reilly's.
Keith Olbermann sold his journalistic soul to the devil. Instead of combating the rightwing nut jobs at Fox News with real journalism, he became the left's version of Bill O' Reilly. Blowhard.

At least O'Reilly has people who disagree with him on his show. Olbermann's guests are almost in constant agreement with him on everything.

I would much rather listen to O'Reilly yell at someone who disagrees with him then Olbermann's preaching to the choir with "journalists" like Richard Wolfe, Jonathan Alter, and Rachel Maddow.

That said, Keith Olbermann is not even half of the journalist Tim Russert was.
post #48 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muharulz View Post
At least O'Reilly has people who disagree with him on his show. Olbermann's guests are almost in constant agreement with him on everything.
Yeah, 'cause right-wing blowhards love to be confronted with actual arguments.
post #49 of 120
Isn't Olbermann an editorialist? Why would you compare an editorialist and a straight journalist? It's weird that people don't see these very stark differences.
post #50 of 120
But Devin, they're both on the TEEVEE!
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