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Can the Zombie Movie Be Saved?

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
There's been a few around these parts that have stated, in the wake of disappointing entries in the zombie sub genre of late, like (many have said) George Romero's "Diary of the Dead" (I haven't seen this yet, so I personally withhold judgment), and the mercilessly and apparently deservedly panned remake of "Day of the Dead", not to mention the last couple installments in the "Return of the Living Dead" franchise, and the last remake of "Night of the Living Dead", that they won't be watching any more zombie flicks.

I've always loved zombie flicks. While I agree with the sentiment that a lot of what we've seen lately have been pretty bad examples of this sub-genre, I still think the fact that so many feel like giving up on them is a damn shame. This got me to wondering: can the zombie movie become watchable again? And if so, what will be required to fix it to make that watchability come about?

I think the answer is yes, and have my own idea for how it can be done. As I've mentioned numerous times, my brother loves zombie novels, and reads damned near every one that comes down the pike. He then passes many of them off to me. A lot of them are pretty standard fare, such as "Down the Road" by Bowie Ibarra, and "Dead City" (sorry, the author's name escapes me). And some, while definitely different, such as "Deadlands", just aren't that good, IMO. But this literary sub genre has exploded in popularity in the last decade or so, and there are so many books being written on this theme by so many talented authors, there can't help but be a few gems in there. The popularity of some of these books is undeniable, and they are lauded by fans and fellow authors alike. Their popularity is almost assured, at least among genre fans, and I can't believe it's taking Hollywood as long as it is to get some of them filmed. My idea for revitalizing the zombie film is quite simple, really: stop remaking classic films in crappy DTV formats, or making crappy DTV "original" films, and adapt some of the better novels.

I think it's pretty safe to say the love for books like "The Rising" and "City of the Dead", and David Wellington's "Monster Island/Nation/Planet" series is pretty universal hereabouts. I also think it's a pretty safe statement to make that we Corner Creatures are fairly representative of the horror fanbase's elite (which means if we really like something, it's probably well made enough that it at least has a shot at more widespread, general audience appeal, (to say nothing of how much it'll impress ESFB* genre drones). Other books, like Philip Nutman's "Wet Work" are cult classics that, unfortunately, had very limited print runs, so their popularity isn't as widespread, but were great nonetheless, and would translate into good films as well. And, love it or hate it, as a few 'round these parts do, "World War Z" was a massive (for a horror book) NY Times bestseller. An adaptation would almost certainly do great (again, for a horror entry) box office as well. Personally, I loved this book, and a pseudo-documentary type film based on it, with liberal doses of flashback action scenes, would probably be damned fun to watch.

It's not much of a stretch to say these would make great films. They're innovative enough, yet not entirely blasphemous of the mileposts we've all come to expect - and in many cases hope for - in a zombie tale. Which is what makes them so great and widely appealing, IMO. And there's enough of them that if a single studio or talented director (or a small, talented group of them) got to work on this, it could revitalize this particular segment of the horror genre for years to come. And the limitation on its scope (that is, "saving" the zombie film as opposed to the entire horror genre) that hey. . . this could happen.

What do you think? Am I on to something here, or have I merely stated the obvious? Were this to happen, would all you who have sworn off zombie movies be tempted to take another peek? Or am I out of what's left of my mind (the zombies having eaten the rest)?

Edited to add: Almost forgot: * Emotionally Stunted Fan Boy. carry on.
post #2 of 40
I suspect the simplest way to rescue the genre is also the most likely- have the current fad die out and no-one make any for the next decade or so.
Little depressing as a solution, but the sheer saturation of the things right now does make it seem likely.
post #3 of 40
Thread Starter 
But. . . they're zombies! They won't stay dead!
post #4 of 40
Ironically, what saves or revives a subgenre is the same thing that strangles it. A couple good, successful zombie movies turns on the green light for every terrible script that's been rightfully ignored up until that point. They really do need to let it cool off for a little bit.
post #5 of 40
I think one of the more obvious answers here is to stop riffing on Romero. As we're all aware, zombie lore existed well before him and it was exploited in a more traditional fashion by films like White Zombie, Plague of the Zombies, and to a somewhat lesser extent, I Walked With A Zombie. There is no reason why current filmmakers always have to defer to the fleash-eating variety that Romero cooked up. Once you take away that crutch, you're kind of forced to do something new with it.

Other than that, I'm not sure I actually care if zombie films are saved or not. I love and own plenty of them, but I've never truly been a "zombie guy".
post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
I think one of the more obvious answers here is to stop riffing on Romero. As we're all aware, zombie lore existed well before him and it was exploited in a more traditional fashion by films like White Zombie, Plague of the Zombies, and to a somewhat lesser extent, I Walked With A Zombie. There is no reason why current filmmakers always have to defer to the fleash-eating variety that Romero cooked up. Once you take away that crutch, you're kind of forced to do something new with it.
I agree with this. The only modern movie I can think of that decided to stray from Romero's version of zombies is Wes Craven's The Serpent and the Rainbow and that came out in the late 80s.

Zombies are starting to become like vampires in the horror genre. They are used too often and the people telling the stories seem to be quite lazy in coming up with anything new to say involving zombies.
post #7 of 40
Besides talent and $, the glut of crappy DTV film-makers forget a to add a few elements to their zombie (or any other horror) flicks:
  • Interesting group of characters... Flesh them out. Mix it up a bit. Different personalities (ala Seinfeld) bounce off each other differently in stressful situations. Not everyone simply screams at each other. And don't just follow Romero's lead. You can't make a film very scary if you don't care if the characters live or die.
  • Atmosphere... Just because your movie has zombies, doesn't meen it's creepy/eerie/horrific. It's amazing what lighting, camera movement/composition, music/sound fx can do.
  • Creativity... Change up the time period, environment, rules, origin, etc. Add elements from other sub-genres. Give us fresh takes on the gore and kills. Mix up familiar ingredients to give us a brand new recipe.


Someone may not be a horror-comedy fan or a splatstick fan, but look at what envelope-pushing pioneer, Peter Jackson, did with DEAD ALIVE:
  • Comedy (duh) and tragedy (trying to babysit/cure the animated dead, including loved ones)
  • Origin: the bite from a Sumatran Rat-Monkey
  • Zombie sex and zombie baby
  • Kung-fu priest
  • The giant mutated Mom-monster final boss
  • Lawn-mower as a weapon
  • Creative and pervasive gore and goop (if you haven't seen this flick and need me to list these, you need to stop what you're doing and watch this now).
  • Interesting camera and pacing.
post #8 of 40
no.
post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
I think one of the more obvious answers here is to stop riffing on Romero. As we're all aware, zombie lore existed well before him and it was exploited in a more traditional fashion by films like White Zombie, Plague of the Zombies, and to a somewhat lesser extent, I Walked With A Zombie. There is no reason why current filmmakers always have to defer to the fleash-eating variety that Romero cooked up. Once you take away that crutch, you're kind of forced to do something new with it.
I've always found it odd that filmmakers always rip off Romero's quite specialized version of zombie lore (they eat human flesh, headshots kill them, etc), yet people who don't watch zombie movies stereotype them as eating brains, and continually chanting "BRAAAAAINS...". Is the Return of the Living Dead franchise really that popular?
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Slade View Post
I've always found it odd that filmmakers always rip off Romero's quite specialized version of zombie lore (they eat human flesh, headshots kill them, etc), yet people who don't watch zombie movies stereotype them as eating brains, and continually chanting "BRAAAAAINS...". Is the Return of the Living Dead franchise really that popular?
Hell, even the last two dog shit movies in the Return of the Living Dead series started to implement the "Romero rules" for the zombies.
post #11 of 40
Thread Starter 
"The Romero Rules" have become a sort of viewer comfort zone. I guess it's not surprising that many want to keep them in (viewers and filmmakers alike). What sets the books I cite above apart id that whie they still "play by" those rules to some extent (they are cannibals & head shots do kill them, they decay even after undeath - albeit slowly, etc.), they tweak those rules a bit. We've (modt of us, anyway, come around to the notion of fast moving zombies, as in the 04 remake of DotD and 28 Days; Keene and Nutman go 'em one better by having the zombies able to think and talk, and use machinery and weapons. There are some pretty intense chase scenes wherein zombies chase the cast in cars, shooting rifles out the windows at them, before catching up and using more "traditional means" of dispatching their foes. They even had a leader, and a biblical as opposed to a pathogrnic origin. The supernatural origin, which we're still kind of guesing about after the 2d book, in Wellington's books, and their "leader" imparting magical powers over th living and the dead alike to his followers (living & dead) add interesting new wrinkles. Perhaps this is further from the formula than many want to stray; I'm sure not every vampire fan was overjoyed at the reimagining of the vampire Anne Rice & her imitators have brought about, that now pervades that sub-genre. Some might view a new take on the zombie film as a sacrilige of sorts. Or maybe a new base of fans will develop for Ob the same way one did for Lestat. As for the inevitable glut to follow, no doubt most of it will be utter crap. But there may be a few diamonds in the rough that are worth watching once or twice to come out of that. That fallout is a good thig, even if the effort to find it is an undertaking. But that's what Alex and his film staff are for. They'll lead us on the right path. Letting the subgenredie out will probably work, but it wil deprive us fans of our beloved zombie fix for awhile - perhaps years. And there's no guarante that what they come up with after that will be much better than what it replaces. My sincerest hope is that if my idea, or one like it were implemented, we'd start to see above average - if not grewat- films arise from faithful adaptations, almost from the beginning (allowing for something of a learning curve and the inevitable initial budget quandries).
post #12 of 40
The zombie movie is dead and buried. Good riddance.
post #13 of 40
I wouldn't say good riddance, as long as the story brings something new to the table, I'll watch it. Hell I kinda want to see Mutant Zombie Vampire from the Hood based Alex's review of it.
post #14 of 40
Personally, I don't feel that any certain sub-genre is ever truly dead. It may be overexposed and it may be full of non-inventive fodder, but all it takes is one inventive, exciting film maker to open it up all over again. Zombies have always been my favorite horror movie trope and they always will be. I refuse to see it as a dead end. I think we've seen every type of horror movie exhausted at one point or another, but someone always brings it back. Someone will eventually get sick of the status quo and give a new riff on it. That may be next month or it may be ten years from now. The question is, can Zombie movies be saved. Of course they can. There was a time when we said the same thing about vampire movies and now we're getting a film like Let The Right One In. It just takes a fresh voice and the lack of studio glut. It's all cyclical. Have some faith.
post #15 of 40
I can think of one popular zombie example that didn't follow the Romero rules...

post #16 of 40
Prince of Darkness features zombies that don't follow Romero rules. Not sure I'd call it a "zombie movie" exactly, but it's out there.
post #17 of 40
World War Z. Other than that, I'm tired of zombies.
post #18 of 40
This is, to me, like asking "Can film noir be saved?" or "Can Peter O'Toole's career be saved?" They've had a great run, and they're available for film buffs to enjoy whenever they want. What's to save?

The books are successful because it's a new-ish bit of territory for genre fiction - they're taking the tropes of the movies and adapting them to print. Trying to retrofit them back into cinema's going to be a bit messy, I suspect.
post #19 of 40
How do you save the genre? Get the italians to start making zombie movies again. Resurrect Lucio Fulci!
post #20 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
The books are successful because it's a new-ish bit of territory for genre fiction - they're taking the tropes of the movies and adapting them to print. Trying to retrofit them back into cinema's going to be a bit messy, I suspect.
Why do you say that? If they're essentially literary retreads of cinematic concepts, I'd think they'd be EASIER to convert to film.
post #21 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph Carter View Post
How do you save the genre? Get the italians to start making zombie movies again. Resurrect Lucio Fulci!
Abbondanza!
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg View Post
Why do you say that? If they're essentially literary retreads of cinematic concepts, I'd think they'd be EASIER to convert to film.
But not necessarily energizing to the genre, being retreads and all. What's new and different about them are the elements that were/are tough to pull of in film.
post #23 of 40
Just watched a movie called The Vanguard that does a good job of changing around the zombie movie concept. They don't call them zombies in the film, of course, but it's obvious what they're influenced by. Pretty fun little flick- http://vanguardmovie.com
post #24 of 40
Oh, and Brian Keene's got a new Rising book coming out in August. "Selected Scenes From the End of the World", a collection of short stories based on the Rising universe. Fun stuff, but you really have to have read the books to get anything out of it.
post #25 of 40
Two words:

Werewolf zombies.
post #26 of 40
You gave that dude 5 bucks for his movie, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU?!?
post #27 of 40
I still wanna see zombie pandas damnit.
post #28 of 40
5 bucks? I know a genius idea when I encounter it. I put myself into debt to cover the entire production budget. And I'm still waiting for my copy!
post #29 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
But not necessarily energizing to the genre, being retreads and all. What's new and different about them are the elements that were/are tough to pull of in film.
I question that. The elements of thinking and talking, tool and weapon using zombies, would translate wel to film, I think.
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
Two words:

Werewolf zombies.
My 2 words: ZOMBIE JUMANJI

* Incidentally, this was my suggestion for that BLACK SHEEP contest last year...

Plot: A group of rich big-game hunters has managed to grease the right government wheels to gain entrance to this war-torn and savage West African country. Not an easy (or safe) achievement of late, due to constant coups, rebellions, and massacres. On top of that, the isolated hunting lodge (nestled in the wildest of African wilderness) and surrounding private game reserve is available to only the most influential and priveleged individuals who can afford the exorbitant fees. What the group of eager, entrepeneurial venturers aren't aware of... is the rash of deaths plaguing the local wildlife. Is it disease? Poachers? Toxic waste due to local government polluting? Or something more insidious?

It isn't long before the visitors, staff, and locals are terrorized by seemingly dead and rotting lions, wildebeasts, antelopes, rhinos, hyenas, hippos, babboons, crocodiles, and yes, a rampaging zombie bull elephant. The hunt for survival becomes that much more challenging when the indigenous fauna is clearly deadly aggressive and hungry for human flesh. Even the taxidermy stuffed trophies inside the lodge come to life in a bloodbath version of Night at the Museum. The blast of an elephant-gun and a crash-course on local legends (West Africa = the birthplace of Voodoo) is the only chance they have to bring themselves "back alive".

Hakuna Matata?... F**K that.
Worry. A lot.
post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg View Post
The elements of thinking and talking, tool and weapon using zombies, would translate wel to film, I think.
It's the final part of the "new society replacing the old" theme that Romero (and three adaptations of Matheson's I Am Legend) never satisfactorily delivered on. I guess I'd be interested in seeing that, but I've given up hope.
post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello View Post
Oh, and Brian Keene's got a new Rising book coming out in August. "Selected Scenes From the End of the World", a collection of short stories based on the Rising universe. Fun stuff, but you really have to have read the books to get anything out of it.
I'm so getting that.
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
My 2 words: ZOMBIE JUMANJI

* Incidentally, this was my suggestion for that BLACK SHEEP contest last year...

Plot: A group of rich big-game hunters has managed to grease the right government wheels to gain entrance to this war-torn and savage West African country. Not an easy (or safe) achievement of late, due to constant coups, rebellions, and massacres. On top of that, the isolated hunting lodge (nestled in the wildest of African wilderness) and surrounding private game reserve is available to only the most influential and priveleged individuals who can afford the exorbitant fees. What the group of eager, entrepeneurial venturers aren't aware of... is the rash of deaths plaguing the local wildlife. Is it disease? Poachers? Toxic waste due to local government polluting? Or something more insidious?

It isn't long before the visitors, staff, and locals are terrorized by seemingly dead and rotting lions, wildebeasts, antelopes, rhinos, hyenas, hippos, babboons, crocodiles, and yes, a rampaging zombie bull elephant. The hunt for survival becomes that much more challenging when the indigenous fauna is clearly deadly aggressive and hungry for human flesh. Even the taxidermy stuffed trophies inside the lodge come to life in a bloodbath version of Night at the Museum. The blast of an elephant-gun and a crash-course on local legends (West Africa = the birthplace of Voodoo) is the only chance they have to bring themselves "back alive".

Hakuna Matata?... F**K that.
Worry. A lot.
That I'd pay to see.
post #34 of 40
Darkmite, can we expect to see Bruce Campbell as a wise-crackin', world-weary big game hunter? Because your tag line is custom made to come out of his mouth.
post #35 of 40
I think the zombie movie can be saved when people start treating it like they would if they were making a more "legitimate" non-genre movie. Much like how fantasy was maligned and all but written off, Peter Jackson approached LotR as a legitimate piece of cinema and created a god damn masterpiece. Fantasy was no longer resigned to the b-list or the DTV shelves, it was a new and popular force...that burned out on imitators.

I don't think there's been a zombie LotR yet, and the closest I think has been the Dawn remake a few years ago and probably Shaun. But there are definitely imitators that aren't helping the cause.

I also don't think it's a question of if they can do anything new storywise, but can they do anything well? Not to keep going back to LotR, but it's not the pinnacle of storytelling, it's rather basic really. But it's all in the execution.
post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
Darkmite, can we expect to see Bruce Campbell as a wise-crackin', world-weary big game hunter? Because your tag line is custom made to come out of his mouth.
Yes, and expect Lance Henriksen, Jeffrey Combs, Keith David, and Brad Dourif to fill in the ranks as well.
post #37 of 40
Um, you forgot Nathan Fillion.
post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
Um, you forgot Nathan Fillion.
Too "new-vangaurd". I'll stick with the vets. Maybe I'll dredge a Horror Con or 2. Marc Singer? Roddy Piper? Busey?

This flick could use a lil' Branscombe Richmond fo sho.
post #39 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
It's the final part of the "new society replacing the old" theme that Romero (and three adaptations of Matheson's I Am Legend) never satisfactorily delivered on. I guess I'd be interested in seeing that, but I've given up hope.
SPOILER ALERT! PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

In Keene's "Rising" books, the dead didn't just replace society, they wiped it out. And the zombie leader made it clear that after he & his supernatural ilk exterminated the animal kingdom, a dirfferent variety would come along and wipe out the plant kingdom after taking them over, and that yet another would come along and destroy the earth itself, as per biblical prophecy. The very end of "City of the Dead" has the beginning stirrings of the plant kingdom takeover as the last image in the book. Most zombie films to date, I think, hopeless as they may seem, always hold out SOME hope (perhaps just to make rom for the inevitable sequel) that somewhere, somehow, someone survives. These books, and the film adaptations thereof, would (assuming of course they're adapted faithfully) do just the opposite. "Wet Work" also has a pretty bleak ending. More so than most zombie films. It did a pretty good job of giving you an idea how the new "society" would look (the President was in the last, world ending scene as a zombie convert). I think this is a somewhat different take on that aspect of the zombie flick, anyway. One I'd like to se somebody have the balls to get down on film.
post #40 of 40
You're going to love Keene's new book, then... it shows exactly what comes after the Sissquism.

I really do hope they finally come out with that adaptation of The Rising. It's such a great book and story. City of Dead, not so much, but I do love this mythos he's built up around it.

Apparently there's been talk with (Delirium Books owner) Shane Ryan Staley about creating a Conqueror Worms sequel as well. THAT I'd be interested in. Hell, the first book was two stories anyway, there could be a ton explaining different things going on in the world.
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