Alien Resurrection (1997) - Page 2

True fix.

Word.

I remember being excited for AR because each movie had taken a different approach (alien horror movie, alien war movie, alien, uh, errmm, AIDS metaphor movie?) and I thought with Joss Whedon we'd get an alien "space adventure" movie.

I haven't read any of the Alien comics or books but space pirates and hybrid Ripleys and swimmin' aliens should've been very Dark Horse (you know, in a GOOD way).

Some of the Dark Horse Alien comic books were very good but after a while they became 'product', just like everything else. In fact, AR feels like a 'product' movie...you want another, here you go.

I love how the film opens with two door guards holding guns pointed at each others' heads. Resurrection is the Alien slapstick comedy no one asked for.

I particularly liked Dark Horse's 'Labyrinth' and the hard-cover 'Tribes'...whilst neither could, I feel, work purely from the narrative on the page (film-wise), I thought both could be a decent 'jumping-off point'.

...but that's just me.

(I'm glad, in many ways, the 'Berzerkers' never got screen-time in ANY subsequent Alien film...though on the page they look pretty cool.)

My thoughts from Quadriology DVD thread:

"RESURRECTION is more FIREFLY than ALIEN... but AVP and especially AVP:R make me long for characters like the goofy (yet distinctive) space pirate mercs from RESURRECTION."

It's more comic-booky space pulp than the previous entries, and it definitely takes some wrong terms in execution, but I think it stays "interesting" conceptually (visuals and ideas).

How come no one's mentioned Wionna Ryder "Call" performance?

Interesting now, there's an original Dark Horse novel called ALIENS: ORIGINAL SIN that continues with the adventures of AR. In it, Ripley. Call and the rest of the Betty crew are on a lone fight against an intergalactic conspiracy with athe ompany and a new Alien race.

I mentioned her performance (and existenz) at the top of this page.

Sorry. Has anyone here read the novelizations by Alan Dean Forster?
There's a whole lot of interesting material there. In fact, the ALIENS novelization has all of the Director's Cut material, way before the Director's Cut was ever released.

Coincidence; I just bought the Alien Quadrilogy for £15 in HMV today. Down from £70!

I nearly bought the Planet of the Apes boxset for £7 too but finances in the second last weekend before payday dictated otherwise.

These were my thoughts as well. The film is still great visually - quite unlike the other three, as they were unlike each other. The main problem is that unlike the other three, the world of AR just feels thin. The characters of AR inhabit a comic book world with all the expected sensibilities - the heavily choreographed action sequences, ricocheting bullets, the fact that virtually every line of dialogue is some intended crowd pleasing smartass comeback or macho posturing. I still remember some of the early internet reviews for AR mentioning the fact that the characters swagger and "wink" at the audience, and I still think that's dead on. The other films are generally pretty sobering, more realistic affairs, in contrast. Even Bill Paxton's lines in Aliens don't feel like fanservice.

Let's not beat about the bush here people. It's a mess. I thought it was brilliant when it came out, it's now kept locked away in the back of the Quadrilogy boxset never to return. Even the special features were more entertaining.

The only good thing to come from this film, as has been said, is that people appreciate 3 more.

Ron Perlman fucking sucks in this movie. What the hell is up with his introduction where he's up in the rafters or something making monkey noises?

ALIEN RESURRECTION

The Problems

1. A ship called 'Father' reusing the 'Mother' from ALIEN
2. Call is an android and no one knows till a bit more then halfway in; i.e. Ashe from ALIEN anyone?
3. Aliens loose on a ship, a repeat of ALIEN
4. Ship set for self-destruct, ALIEN
5. A band of interesting characters ALIENS [yet the AR characters just weren't interesting].

That's 5 of many. I've been a harsh AR critic for many many years. I love Jeunet, but he was wrong for this film, but not more wrong then Joss Whedon who basically fucked the story over for a god damned percentage. haha, maybe not, but it felt good to write it.

The story in AR was awful. Putting Ripley back on a ship with aliens running around was a recycling of a story that only needed to be told once.

The dialogue in AR was awful, full of cliches and eviscerating moments. The only brilliant moment in AR was the aforementioned clone room scene which was pure alien, and a blip of wonder in a film that only helps Joss Whedon live up to his name 'mediocre writer.'

The problem with AR is the same problem that avp and avp:r has. Fox wants a director to basically make another ALIENS, going so far as to recreate the same scenes with subtle differences.

The alien series was a downer, in a good way, about how greed can ultimately fuck us up, and who pays the price for such greed. Ripley was the innocent bystander who decided to do the right thing.

ALIEN 3 was brilliant because it wasn't going to be a picnic, it was the downward spiral of a story that would never end well for it's human characters. Alien 3 is my next favorite after the first film.

Alien Resurrection was almost a parody of the franchise, laughable, ridiculous, with tired ideas.

I'm watching it as I type.
I watched the four films in a row. The xenomorphs just got loose, and so far it's better than i remembered.

I was just watching a few clips after reading through the thread, and I have to say that I do rather like the gimmick of Vriess suddenly having to support the weight of Christie on the ladder - it's a nice little turnaround.

But of course, that led me over to some clips from 3, and I'm a big fan of 3. I always have been. When I first saw it, I was at first a bit nonplussed. I immediately watched it again, and then a third time. I came to the conclusion that it just might be the best of three (extant at that time) for me. I still marvel at the guts that it takes to kill off just about everybody in the franchise - old or new - with a very unhappy ending. I loved Dance's and Dutton's work - and is there any more unsettling, yet somehow satisfyingly inevitable moment in the entire franchise than when the alien backs Ripley up against wall after killing Clemens?

I suppose Resurrection does have a few moments of it's own, but for me they're in the early parts. Overall, it just felt like fanservice to me - which is exactly how I have always felt about AvP, as well: that it's precisely the kind of idea that should stay in the fan fiction realm.

I actually read a draft of Whedon's screenplay before the film was released and enjoyed the hell out of it. Then I saw the actual film a few months later.

I was never a fan of Jeunet to begin with, but...ugh.

I've always enjoyed 3 myself. It was bound to get shit on though. To go from movie that is the big explosive popcorn flick with all these cool marine characters and their giant machine guns to a film that opens on a sour note and just gets darker and more morbid is just a difficult selling point. I thought Rosenthal's score was aces as were just about every scene with Dutton and Weaver together. I particularly liked the scene where Ripley asks Dillion to kill her that is immediately followed by the two of them breaking down their plan to the rest of the men. I've always been a fan of the passion that Charles Dutton brings to his performances. He really doesn't get enough credit for this role here.

I appreciated 3 in the theater, but now it just feels like a mopey teenager's version of ALIEN.

There's a scene close to the end, right before the birth in which Ripley leaves the group and is grabbed by aliens. Next scene, Ripley is seen standing and hugging (?) a grown xenomorph for a while. Then, Ripley is in the birth chamber and Gediman tells Ripley that the queen is so thankful for her allowing her to evolve.

Now I've been argueing with a friend who suggests the xenomorph kinda raped her. Had sex with Ripley and somehow changed the alien DNA this way. I doubt that. I don't know what's up with the weird hugging but I think the queen was already born different due to the mixed DNA of the Ripley clones. What do you think?

Winona Ryder should not only be, but be in more movies, regardless of their content.

I like Ryder and I agree with your statement!

PS Weaver once told me this was perhaps her favorite of the ALIEN films

There isn't a 4th ALIEN movie. What the fuck are you people talking about?

Someone agrees with me about Winona Ryder?

As much as I've slagged aspects of this film off before, I've gone back time and again. That has to count for something... beyond proving my patience with "problem pictures."

I think you're thinking waaaaay too much for such a profoundly silly film, but for the record, I think you are correct and the hugging was just a bit of Jeunet artsi-fartsiness.

This was my exact situation too. During fall '97, I had recently rented the previous three films from Blockbuster and couldn't wait for this film. It became my first sequel disappointment.

So anyway, it's been awhile since I watched the film but does it ever explain what purpose Ryder was to serve as a robot? Ash and Bishop were there for a reason, but it's never explained why Ryder was there.

If it did - I don't remember, probably just a token hot bot - it never needed to. Ryder is there; her presence needs no justification.

Bobby Bear,

Yes, I like Ryder. I think it stems back to when a baby sitter rented "Reality Bites" when it came out on home video and played it for me when I was a little girl. As an 8 year old, Ryder represented everything I wanted for myself when I turned 22. I sort of liked to imagine when I got older I'd kind of evolve into her character in that film, and have friends who work at The Gap and everything. Her vagabond existence and slacker compadres seemed to embody the life I hoped to lead as a 20 something, at least as far as my less than 10 year old self was concerned

I've been a fan ever since, and she is a much stronger actress than people give her credit for.

I took a real notion for watching Reality Bites again, last week. It didn't hold up to my memories; an ardent fan might defend it's meandering structure and modest pace as a clever "form represents content" kind of thing, but I just think it needed tightening up. Ryder, however, came off even better than I remembered.

It'd be too easy to mention the likes of the gas station scene - which is, essentially, Winona porn - and make this seem like a lust-ridden, lechy joke post. Yes, she's beautiful. But there's more to her than just wide-eyes and vulnerability. Look at the bungled graduation speech. There's real charm there. The chemistry between her and Hawke was great, especially in the earlier, tense moments. The film also showed her tougher, spunkier side through this relationship (something that seems to be overlooked, thanks to her "demure" perception.)

Before the inevitable, "err, isn't this supposed to be a thread about Alien: Resurrection?" quips commence, it's as good a time as any to add that, while it's been some time since I've seen it, Call isn't an obvious and boring cinematic android like so many others. When you look at how many actors succumbed to colouring well within the lines (even Henriksen's Bishop, which I love) you must appreciate when someone didn't. Winona didn't. For this, she deserves much needed slack.

I'm sure I've asked this before, but who do y'all but the blame on for this film, Whedon or Jeunet?

To me, having read Whedon's script, I honestly think Jeunet did the best with what he had to work with. I mean visually speaking the film is amazing and it's got a style and tone which is completely different from the other films. Not that that gets him off the hook, a more experienced director would possibly have diverged from the script more. In a lot of ways Jeunet fails by being TOO faithful to the script and as such Whedon's awful dialogue and weird notions are allowed to dominate the film.

Yes, Hawke is excellent as well, although it was probably Before Sunrise many years later that made me fall in love with him. Winona is strong though, and that graduations speech is funny. I think her relationship with Hawke feels very genuine and you believe that these two people have known eachother their entire college careers.

She is much more versatile than her doe-eyed appearance would lead you to believe. She plays "bad" quite well, turning in thrilling work in THE CRUCIBLE("I saw Goody Proctor with the Devil!!"). She also manages to exude pure self satisfied contempt while keeping always keeping a smile on her face during the last half of AGE OF INNOCENCE

As for her in this film, I did not really believe she was a robot, she seemed too emotive for that, but she did strong work and I liked how she played off Weaver


I am sorry her shoplifting disrupted her career, because she had and still has alot to offer

Jeunet gets a fair share of the blame with how tonally fucked the film is, but Whedon's at major fault here.

Not that he'd ever admit it.

I haven't seen the film, but would you say this was just an off day for him? I've read the script, and it wasn't his best, but I would hardly call it terrible; the main problem, I think, is that his trademark style doesn't really work in this franchise. And doing another out-the-airlock climax is frankly stupid. Agree, disagree? Would you consider yourself a Whedon fan, Greg?

Also, what exactly is the official word on the production troubles? Whedon blames everyone but himself (I love ya, Joss, but that's just plain pigheaded), but then he's always been something of a "do-my-own-thing" guy who hates studio interference (and since this is Fox we're talking about...).

For the record I thought the idea of getting your entire body sucked through a tiny hole was pretty gross/awesome. It became a staple of my outer space fears for years afterward

Whedon's sole feature film writing credit that doesn't blow chunks was 1/4th of the writing team on Toy Story 1. I'm not willing to call it an off day. Also, it's not so much that his "style" doesn't fit the franchise, it's that he's a lazy writer. Oh, gee, look, another ragtag team of space mercs, all snark and wit. Oh, there's Titan AE. A ragtag team of space merc--I mean, explorers. And here's Atlantis. Oh, look, a ragtag team of space--er, submarine...explorers...for hire. And then there's Serenity. Oh, look, are you getting the point yet?

But I also can't stand Buffy, loathe Firefly, and am completely indifferent to Angel. So no, I'm not a Whedon fan.

There's a lot of really stupid stuff in the film which is directly from the ship. The alien hybrid, which is conceptually terrible, and Michael Wincott's exit are two of the things which really don't work and which are clearly in the script.

Whedon's main problem is that he has a very specific voice and within his own shows that's okay, but when he's forced to play in other kids playpens his writing always sounds weird. Whedon needs people who can deliver his dialogue and when he's not involved in casting you get people who just don't understand how to not sound like fucking robots when speaking his dialogue (see Halle Berry in X-Men).

I love Firefly and am enjoying what I've seen of Angel. Still need to see all of Buffy.

Ah, I see. Also, Spike, I thought his Astonishing X-Men run was pretty good, although he did write it from the start.

You do understand that it scientifically impossible. You are only talking about 1 atmosphere of pressure. Explosive decompression is a myth, at one or less atmosphere of pressure.

I think they were just trying to suggest some trippy scifi interspecies maternal/sexual connection between Clone Ripley and the Clone Aliens, and so when she fell into the alien orgy, she joined right in. She was supposed to be conflicted about her loyalties, and gettin' it on with the aliens was one manifestation of that.

It's one of (I think) a lot of really interesting ideas the movie had, pretty much none of which it pulled off (or at least pulled off to fit in this particular film series). I was so, so pumped for this when it came out, maybe more so than any other film ever (I remember being really pissed that it came out three days later here in Canada), and I came out completely thrilled by it. I was stunned that it got so panned.

Now, I realize how stupid I was. I bought into to every condescending bit of pander, all those one-liners and obvious attempts at badass got me. I haven't seen it in a while, but I know it's legitimately not a good movie. I can still enjoy it though, for visual style and performance and its odd moments.

As for the question of Whedon's responsibility: if he wrote the exchange where evil scientist guy is teaching Clone Ripley some English ...
... then he clearly had no clue what kind of movies the previous three Alien movies had been.

Basically, Whedon wanted to make Firefly*, Jeunet wanted to make Spaceship of Lost Children, Fox wanted your fucking money.

It's still a shitheap.


*--By the way, in case anyone remains confused at this point:

Elgyn = Mal
Johner = Jayne
Christie = Zoe
Vriess = Presumably Wash, but it's a Jeunet film, fuck you, it's going to be Dominique Pinon.
Call = Simon
Ripley = River

This was also my first sequel disappointment. My brother and I had been huge fans of the series for a few years. We watched all the movies a bunch of times, played the videogames, and the like. We were totally psyched that there was going to be a film version in theaters. Then this happened.

To this day, I will not watch or give custom to anything related to Joss Whedon. I sort of have an abiding hate for the guy. My late brother liked and watched Buffy, though. I used the time he watched it to do homework and practice guitar.

Fun Facts about 'Explosive Decompression' and the 'Alien Franchise'

Human Exposure to Vaccuum<------READ THIS!!

Originally it was going to be General Perez (and NOT the Newborn who bit the bullet this way)...it was VERY graphic in the original script [which I have a hardcopy around here somewhere]...it ends with his head having all the flesh sucked-off and for some reason his wedding-ring skittering about in his eye-socket which results in his skull exploding [yeah, I know]...
The only evidence I have that this was the case is the IMDB [yeah, I know]...
"SPOILER: The character of Dan Hedaya (General Perez) was initially going to die in a decompression scene, with him being sucked through a small hole in a window. However, Jean-Pierre Jeunet thought this was a much too spectacular death for such a minor character, so this idea was used for the death of the Newborn. Hedaya's eventual death scene (with him being bitten in the back of his head, and observing a piece of his own brain) was not approved by the studio, but was kept in the movie after the response of a test audience proved quite favorable...."

and the fact that all current versions of the script online never seem to mention how Perez dies...(or maybe I just missed them...)

Then there's the fact that Whedon obviously ripped this off FROM THE ORIGINAL 'ALIEN'...

CINEFEX
number 1
published March 1980

"Creating an Alien Ambience"
Don Shay
page63

'Lambert's fate was never specifically recorded, but in an earlier version of the script she was to have died as a result of an abortive attempt to trap the alien in an airlock and eject it into space - an attempt which instead breaches the hull and causes explosive decompression throughout the ship.
"Because of budget reasons and time, we just couldn't shoot it." Ridley Scott explained, "but I wanted Lambert to get sucked out of the ship through an opening about the size of a keyhole. Not a very heroic ending -but dramatic." A number of possible filming techniques were discussed, including a life-sized inflatable dummy and a lot of fast cutting, but Brian Johnson was opposed to the idea. "Being sucked out of a tiny hole simply isn't possible, even if there's a vacuum on the other side. It would just get plugged up. You might get a helluva blood-blister, but you're certainly not going to suck a whole human being through a hole only a sixteenth of an inch in diameter."'

Not to go too off topic but Whedon likes to blame others a lot. I remember when he defended his "toad struck by lightning" line in the X-Men script and blamed the director and actress for saying it the wrong way. The line was terrible regardless of how it was going to be delivered.

Regardless...

It gave me a memorable viewing experience at the theater. From the "Your most uncomfortable times at the cinema" thread:

Yes, he does.

I love Whedon's stuff -- I'm head over heels for Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, and I liked Dollhouse a bunch. But the man has serious issues with admitting when he's responsible for anything that doesn't work. See also: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the movie. Was the script better than the flick? Sure. Was it a good script? No, not really.

I'll defend the lightning line, though. It works if you can imagine Sarah Michelle Gellar delivering it in Buffy mode.

Yeah, you need a lot more pressure to get that kind of effect.

Read this and weep....this is the kind of grotestque accident you're looking for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin

Yeah, but Storm isn't Buffy. That's the point.

Although I would have preferred the original scripted ending with Ripley fighting the Newborn on a snowy mountain on Earth, I do like the theatrical ending thematically: Ripley is aborting her baby, not only killing the monster but letting go of her old life and old mother complex (Newt).

In a lot of ways A:R parodies and deconstructs the previous movies. Unfortunately it doesn't do it very well.

I see absolutely nothing of Newt in that lumbering abomination. The whole 'newborn' element to the story was the cinematic equvalent of Ripley choosing to flush a malformed premature birth down a truck stop toilet.