Ant-Man Assemble - Page 2

For me, Thor does not belong in the world established by The Incredible Hulk or Iron Man - but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

Tried reading Ant-Man's (OK, Henry Pym's) entry on Wikipedia and had to slap myself awake. Boring as hell.

See, that's just it. If the film takes the time to emphasize Stark's (or Banner's or Pym's) probable issues with the nature of Thor's claims, then you'll probably have some level of audience buy-in. I haven't read the Ultimates, but Thor's divinity wasn't a factor in the formation of the original Avengers. None of the others gave it a second thought. This treatment would not work on film today.

If the writers attempt to cram in Captain America's defrosting, a villain or two, and the initial meeting of all the heroes into one movie, the problem of a god walking among men could easily get lost in the shuffle, and the credibility would be compromised from a character standpoint; as fascinating as an unfrozen super-soldier is, interacting with an actual real-life deity would be a way bigger deal for anyone, especially a man of science.

That would be a great help, as well, I think.

I hope they have a scene where Ant Man makes wheatcakes for Peter before he goes out as Spidey.

It's been a while since I read it, but they played the "Thor might really just be a paranoid schizophrenic eco-terrorist" angle for nearly a year before letting the cast (and readers) know for sure.

He can change at will from what I remember. Also, he can not only shrink himself to ant-size....................but also make himself as large as a skyscraper. That alone should help him standout a bit as a member of the Avengers team. Hulk is big, but not as big as Ant-Man can get.....................hence his alternate name, Giant-Man.


And Devin is right. Thor fitting into the established "more realistic" science-based Marvel world of Iron Man/Hulk (and Captain America/Ant-Man) is not a problem if you go the Ultimates route. In that version, nobody on the team believes in Asgard or that Thor is a reincarnated Norse God. They know that he has powers, but they think he is insane so they don't believe his reasons for having them. So basically, you'll have Thor running around for at least half the movie spouting off bits of info about Asgard, the Gods, and spouting divine "one-liners"..........with the rest of the team thinking he is a nutjob. Of course, they don't care really because Thor is kicking ass for their side. Tony Stark is the only one who seems to actually entertain the possibility of an Asgard dimension, but not enough to actually believe Thor.

Anyway, stop worrying about how it will work out. They already have a perfectly good way of making it work laid out for them. Once again, casting? Who do they think will or should be cast as Thor, Captain America, Ant-Man, and Wasp? If we are going to speculate, might as well speculate about something that hasn't already been handled...

Well, are we to assume that Marvel will win out & Triple H will be cast as Thor? I sure hope not.

A few points...

how can anyone rule out the director of "Hot Fuzz" and "Shaun of the Dead" NOT making a fun "Ant-Man" movie? Paul Rudd as Scott Lang, Simon Pegg as Hank Pym and a host of celebrity voices as the ants he interacts with, with a conclusion that allows Pym the ability to manipulate the Pym particles only to ridiculously grow in size, only to be informed by co-worker/ex Janet that SHIELD is on line two?

I originally had these issues of credibility with the Silver Surfer interacting with the movie version of the Fantastic Four, and while that movie had problems, the credibility gap between their two worlds never happened, so if Tim Story could do it, couldn't anyone?

Are you forgetting the cold feet they got with GALACTUS?

Darkmite8, Maybe Fox felt that Galactus was both unbelieveable as well as prohibitively expensive. It is probably better that Galactus was not in Tim Story's FF as maybe, Marvel will regain the rights and make an epic FF film, you know...one without a too whiny Sue Storm, a more confident Mr. Fantastic, a Dr Doom that is an arrogant, EEEEEvil genius that wants to take over the world, a new Johnny Storm and Michael Chiklis as the only returning cast member as Ben Grimm aka The Thing.

Yeah, actually, from what I recall, there was some vague attempt in the comics at establishing that Thor and the other Asgardians were extradimensional entities or some such bullshit. The Marvel universe is so full of "scienciness" (a la Colbert) that, again, it may as well be magic. Dave, do you really, truly believe that people will buy into a green monster created by a gamma bomb and then blanch at "magic"? Especially when all these characters will be individually set up in their own movies?

My point about superhero movies, earlier, is that for anything interesting to happen you need to set them in a superhero universe. Well, except for X-Men which has the convenient "out" of mutation to establish a whole world for the characters to exist in. But look at Spiderman, for instance. You've got the one anomaly of him being bitten by a spider and gaining superpowers, but then you've got the Green Goblin and his magic potion and flying hoverboard (pretty convoluted all by itself) to give him someone to fight. Then in the next movie, crazy AI tentacles. Then alien symbiotes, and so on. By the second movie, it's clear the movie's taking place in a bizarre world where fantastic mad sciencey stuff happens all the time. Is there really any point worrying about suspension of disbelief by throwing in gods or magic?

They're only part of the same fantasy world because Tolkien put them together in the first place. Just like Lee & Kirby threw Iron Man, the Hulk, and Thor together. And yes, Tolkien's world has a resemblance to fairy tales, but it had plenty of original additions as well. And somehow, people bought into it without it blowing their tiny minds.

By the way, superhero comics are silly? DUH. But they have conviction to their silliness, which is why they work. And why this kind of half-assed, apologetic, "Maybe Thor is a crazy person" thinking can only hurt the film. (Haven't read The Ultimates. It sounds awful.)

Pseudo-science is one thing; magic is another. They both require the suspension of disbelief, but they open completely different cans of worms. Also, not all superhero comics work, and the things that make the ones that do work may not translate well to film.

Incidentally, I agree that the Thor stuff will hurt the film. But then, I always thought he was a terribly boring and silly addition to the comics anyway. Pretty much the only interest I have in the property is curiosity at how they will integrate him into Iron Man's world.

I'm wondering what they will do for villains. Rampaging Hulk is an option, but kinda silly to waste an Avengers film on. So are those lame Chitauri alien villains too. Somehow I think we'll end up with a really good Marvel team-up with some awesome superheroes and a lackluster villain. Just a guess.

I don't know how you can not see the difference here. Elves and hobbits and dragons and wizards are not fundamentally different things. They're magic. All of them. They're a unified concept, not separate concepts thrown together. As someone earlier pointed out, if Tolkien had thrown an army of robots into the mix, readers would have had a serious problem dealing with their presence in that world. Science-based characters, however soft and noodly the science may be, are still fundamentally different things from magic-based characters.

Ultron?

M.O.D.O.K. If he can't set the box office on fire no one can.

I'd have scoffed at the odds of either of those possibilities just a few years ago. These days, I'm not so sure that anything is out of bounds.

I would like to see an invasion by...The Kree. It would set up Captain Marvel (not Shazaam) to become the star spanning hero of the comics and Carol Danvers aka Ms Marvel to become an Avenger. Ronan The Accuser could be played by Michael Ironside. Ronan is Marvel's version of...Judge Dredd, an armored policeman with high tech weapons. I recently bought Marvel Essential's Captain Marvel vol 1 and it is very cool indeed.

I hope they cram all that in there. Most superhero movies are bloated, and by saying that I mean there's a lot of fat in the midsection. Overwhelm the audience with plot and just make them deal with it. THE AVENGERS is supposed to be good old-fashioned ass-kicking fun, and frankly, fuck the people who can't keep up.

But in cramming, there's also the danger of churning out a Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, which comes off like cinematic Cliff's Notes. It's not so much that I want them to include tons of stuff, but the writers for this movie might need to take into account different sensibilities than comic book writers or even scriptwriters for single hero comic book movies would. Giving the villain a substantial backstory (a comic book film standard) may not be as important as emphasizing how these very different heroes interact.

If there are people who can't keep up with the plot, that's one thing; if there are people who actively tune out because the writers have failed to maintain some sort of internal film logic, it's the writers', not the audience's fault.

Plus, "fuck those who can't keep up" is exactly how you don't make a massively budgeted summer blockbuster. Given the probable budget of this project, they're going to have to guarantee a return on their investment. If you think this is going to turn out to be the fanwank dream project that doesn't care what anyone else thinks, think again. They're going to have to make damn sure that everyone can keep up.

FYI, at the Spaced Invasion USA showing last night in LA, one person in the audience asked Edgar about the status of Ant Man, and we were told that the script is complete but that he wasn't going to answer any other questions about it (which makes sense since that wasn't the evening's focus).

Considering who the father of Ultron is......and Ultron's ties with Vision. Heck, even ties into Captain America (wasn't he a member of the Invaders)? Highly probable that Ultron will be a villian at some point.

Speaking of Harry Potter, Thor, and magic in cinema, I can't wait to see the wingnuts fall out of their pews over a big-budget mass-marketed summer movie celebrating a pagan mythos. It'd be a shame if they sensibly ignore it. Hell, Marvel should goad em for the publicity. Potential THOR tagline: Where's your God now!

Why should THE AVENGERS slow down when they're going to have 4, maybe 5 movies that set the damn thing up?

Yep. Some of these characters are going to be established (Shellhead, Hulk, Cap). Others will need to explained somehow. It's gonna be tricky.

How do the animated flicks handle it? Montages? Title sequences? Not addressing it?

EDIT:
Sure beats the alternate of featuring Stanley Kirk Burrell's "Here Comes the Hammer" in the trailers. HAMMER TIME, indeed!

They don't usually address it. It usually falters because they try to include EVERYONE. It's a super hero smorgasbord. I think they usually assume the audience had a basic knowledge of who the characters were and didn't have to invest so much time into an origin or explanation.

HBarr, Ultron was a robot created by Hank Pym aka Yellow Jacket, Giant Man, Ant-Man. Ultron found the body of the original android Human Torch who teamed up with Captain America, Namor The Submariner, and others to fight the Axis in WWII. Ultron 5 (now made of Adamantium) re-built the Torch as The Vision.

I hear the "it's a superhero movie, people will get onboard" side but I think about introducing Thor to the Iron Man/Hulk world and then I think about midichlorians. Do tiny symbiotic creatures in the bloodstream that augment one's abilities fit into the established Star Wars universe? I guess so, but didn't it have an artificial, "that's not Star Wars" flavor when you first heard it?

Fictional worlds have rules, and there's nothing in the rules of the currently-established Marvel movie world to suggest something like Thor. And to really nerd out, Thor presents a "what does Superman need with a Justice League" problem : he flies, shoots lightening, and is far stronger than suited-up Tony Stark, plus no apparent need for a suit (and he probably doesn't ice up at higher altitudes). Why does he need a team in the first place?

Yeah, I know the back history. Hence, my posting that Ultron would most likely be a villain in an Avengers movie (given Ultron's extensive involvement with 3 members) - 2 of which have been stated to be included in the movie treatment but thanks for restating clearly what other people might have missed inbetween the lines.

I think they should honor the recently deceased Carlin and go with "Our God has a bigger dick than your God".

Ultron seems like a logical choice for a villain (I can't think of any others specifically associated with the Avengers), but there has to be more than that. A big robot just wouldn't seem to be enough to require all these heroes to team up after some of the things in their solo movies.

This Summer, Our God Will Use His Hammer to Nail Your God to the Cross.

This summer...

"Peter... Peter..."

"Yes, Lord?"

"Peter... I can see Thor from here."

i'm not thor,

maybe a little choked......

I think I love you.

In a completely manly way of course.

The idea of the Avengers hunting down a rampaging Hulk smells like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen when Connery and Shane West ran and shot at Mr. Hyde.

I don't even want to think about that movie when I watch the Avengers.

Fortunately, hardly anyone saw that movie, so nobody's going to notice the resemblance.

If they go the classic rock route a la Iron Man, though, I don't see how they could go with anything other than "The Immigrant Song."

I guess it's a pipe dream to hope for Cannibal Ox's "Battle for Asgard."

I swear, if I'm watching Thor in the theater and The Immigrant Song comes up, I'm going to stand up on my seat and start headbanging.

That's my ringtone. Stop biting my shit, Thor.

Only if you can lift Edward G Robinson's reading of it from The Ten Commandments....

"Yeah, where's your God now, yeah?"

AhahAAAAAAAAAAAAH-AH!

Unfortunately, Zep is notoriously stingy with lending out their tunes. I remember the video that Jack Black and the entire crew of extras made during SCHOOL OF ROCK, pleading for the usage of "Immigrant Song".

EDIT: Howbout Tenacious D's epic "Wonderboy" ? Thor, the crevasse! Fill it with your mighty juice!!!

Actually, I really like the idea of Paul Rudd as Ant-Man. That said, I'd reverse them. Make Rudd play Hank Pym and Simon Pegg as Scott Lang. Rudd seems a whole lot more suited for the self-important and verbally abusive Pym than Pegg would be. So here's my current wish-list...

The Avengers:
Iron Man - Robert Downey Jr.
Hulk - Edward Norton
Captain America - ???
Thor - ???
Ant-Man - Paul Rudd
Wasp - ???
Nick Fury - Samuel L. Jackson


Supporting Cast (small/cameo roles):
Pepper Potts - Gwyneth Paltrow
James Rhodes - Terence Howard
Happy Hogan - Jon Favreau
Betty Ross - Liv Tyler
General Ross - William Hurt
Black Widow - ???
Dum Dum Dugan - ???

Brilliant.

Just hope it's not Kiss' "God of Thunder"

If Gene $immons has anything to do with it, it's a done deal.

You know, I'm not going to defend LXG, but I think this is something of a misconception- the movie did nearly $80 million domestically (more than Hellboy) and was a MONSTER overseas. If the film wasn't such shite, we'd be watching the LXG 2 DVD by now.

Also, Thor's theme should be "Knights Of Cydonia".

According to Box Office Mojo, it made 66 million domestically, on a production budget of 78 million. Yes, it did better overseas, making 112 million. But for whatever reason, the studios still care more about domestic box office than overseas, so there you go. Here at home, it lost money. And even taken as a total, 178 isn't a brilliant return on their investment. They wanted a blockbuster, expected a blockbuster, so the fact that it wasn't makes it a failure, even though it made money. See also Godzilla.

And incidentally, the film being shit doesn't enter into it in any way. If it had made three times its budget back, there'd be a sequel, shit or no shit. Fast & The Furious was shit, and it still got sequels, because it made a good return on its investment.

I was under the impression the domestic was a little higher- think I confused it for something else. Nm.