Burn Notice Season 2 - Page 2

This was a fun one. And really seemed to come from the pages of Carl Hiassen. Sort of what I hoping more of from the show, Miami, Florida becoming a character in the show as well.

Ever since I read this from Matt Nix...

...I've been enjoying this show in a whole new light. Watching them find ways to get Michael to seduce the bad guys is a lot of fun.

But would becoming a badass almost R rated version of MacGuyver be such a bad thing?

I will give it this...Michaels reaction to his Brother fighting back was awesome.

For pussies like you, do you think you even need to torture? You can make pussies give it up without touching them because they're weak, and not devout. Ivan was devout, didn't matter what they did to him, he would never have knowingly betrayed the organization. And, it's widely understood that torture does not guarantee the information you gain is correct. People will say anything to stop being tortured. That's why "the clever trick" was the way to go, it guaranteed the information was correct.

edit: Even if there was somehow a real Jack Bauer situation, it's still not realistic to jump to torture as some guaranteed and efficient means of gaining information.

Whoa Jack who slapped you in the face with a white glove? In your post you pretty much repeated exactly what I said didn't you? I said in my post that with a guy like Divoff toture probably wouldn't work but it would work on a puss like me. Thus the idea of "torture never works" isn't exactly true. If you don't believe in torture for moral reasons thats perfectly fine, it makes me uncomfortable too. Mostly because it's hard to be 100% sure that the person actually knows the info you want and you might be harming an innocent person.

All I was saying was that in a case where you knew for sure and there was a limted amount of time, perhaps even more limited than what was given in the episode, there might not be time to trick him and you might have to resort to it. Would the info be 100% accurate? Maybe not but it's better than nothing and you could always check on the info without going on guns blazing right? But what I really thought was funny was that it wasn't that Weston was morally against it, he just didn't trust it, which to me is a a stange character quirk.

Look in the part of my post that you of course didn't copy and paste I stated that I really liked the con and the episode and the fact the Divoff got killed and probably totured anyway by his own people and thats still true now. So why don't you relax?

He says torture is for sadists and thugs. Pretty strong statement on it right there. Not sure what else you want him to say about it. You want him to have a deep monologue giving his political views?

And torture really doesn't work. A good interrogator doesn't need to resort to beating the crap out of someone or attempting to drown them in order to get information from the subject. As they show on the show, psychology will work just fine.

And great, if your torture does happen to work, what happens when it gets out that you did torture (and it will get out because everything gets out)? Now you just created more enemies because you show your self or country to be thugs and sadists.

Right because whatever opposing side your fighting would NEVER toture would they? Not to mention Michael is a person not a country and so what if it got out? Then people might try to kill and torture him and his friends, oh wait.........

Look who cares, im not exactly a fan of torture as I stated above it's just that if you need info fast, as in hours fast, from someone you know 100% knows, then maybe thats a last resort way to go. I would rather torture a horrible person(and yes I classify a guy like Divoff horrible) then let an innocent person die. Again is the info 100%? Maybe not but at least you tried. Look if you against toture for moral reasons thats fine by me, im mostly against it too. But to say it never works, well I just don't think thats accurate. It might not work on most dedicated people but it certainly would on some and if it's all I got left I would rather do that then take the supposed high ground and let someone die. And if it were your relative being held hostage you might just agree no matter how you feel at this very moment.

But guys look this discussion is getting a little too heavy for a show about a spy and his botox lipped girlfriend alright? So lets just knock this off right now and look forward to next week.

Burn Notice doesn't just pull the "interrogation > torture" meme out of nowhere. Matt Nix based the show off stories from his friend who used to be a spy. Almost everything on the show is factually correct (except, obviously, the bomb stuff where they've either left out or changed an ingredient) and it's not like torture is the nuclear option where you should only use it in an emergency. It doesn't work. Why would it? All it gets is information that's unreliable.

Burn Notice isn't trying to be political. It's trying to stay true to what's smart and entertaining. And it's nothing new that the show is always trying to explain what the characters are doing and why. Obviously, viewers would ask, "Why doesn't Michael torture for information?" Here's why. Also, it makes for a boring show.

I don't think you quite get what I'm saying. I'm saying a person who is weak and will crack under physical torture to reveal credible information is someone you do not need to torture. They will crack sans phsyical violence. A person like Ivan wouldn't break through violence. Even if he did eventually provide information it could not be considered reliable, and you would have possibly thrown away any chance of getting credible information out of him. So, I don't think Weston was wasting his time, or choosing a more leisurely path to that information. Even if he was in a Jack Bauer time crunch he was still choosing the correct tact in securing the information, in a real world way this show attempts to stick to.

No, unreliable information is not better than no information. And I guess were lucky in your scenario that you'd have enough time in a situation that demanded torture be used (which you seem to see as a last resort), but would still be able to verify the information before moving in on the time sensitive event (which I assume you don't think takes that long).

I assume you're reacting to me calling you a pussy, I'm using your term. You refer to yourself as a pussy. I'm not trying to be personal, I'm just using the term you used to describe your character type. Looking back though I suppose you just called yourself a puss. So replace pussy with puss. Wasn't trying to insult you.

I don't know why you think I accused you of not liking the episode or that you didn't really like Ivan getting probably tortured.

Okay, off topic but whatever...

I'm not in any way a professional in the field. What I know, I know from reading, from documentaries and first hand stuff from a buddy of mine who went though SERE training.

That whole deal that torture works faster than proper interrogation? Myth. While you can keep interrogating and playing mind games for very long periods of time you can only torture for a brief time before a long resting period for the target. If you keep going at it non stop, pretty soon you'll have a babbling mess in your hands that couldn't give you his name right even he wanted to.

And there are techniques to resist torture. You're criminally underestimating the opposition if you think that these techniques haven't been absolutely drilled into the mind of anyone with information worth a damn.

Here's a method the Israelis used, which now has been declassified. You gather ten subjects in a room tied up but not blindfolded. It works even better if they know each other. You put hoods on them and give them a minute to stew. Then you say that the first three to volunteer to speak will be treated well. The others will be locked up and forgotten about. You then act as if a couple were willing to do it. As he told the story, after that everyone in the room was jumping up and down wanting to speak. In ten minutes they would have ten willing suspects ready for debriefing without even a push. And the guy was former Sayeret Matkal which as special forces go is as hardcore as you can get and still have a birth certificate. In fact he pretty much used the exact same words Michael used when talking about torture.

Ugh im pulled back in....

No I never really said that torture is faster and that it works quicker. What I said was that there are some guys that it will work on. If the only guys that were involved in organized crime, terrorism, ect.. were hardcore "toture all day and won't talk guys" then they wouldn't be very big. There are guys who would gladly do 10 years or more to avoid being tortured or killed my their own people. But if you do it, well then maybe they will talk. Im not saying toture is the most effective method because im sure it's not. Im just saying maybe it should be in your arsenal because for some guys it might be the only thing that will make them talk. Again im no fan of torture but in certain situations with certain people I think it may be a necessay evil. It's been around for a long time, it has had to work at least enough to justify it's existance.

Look if your argument is that torture can and has work somewhat in the past but you don't condone it and never believe it should be done under any circumstances then thats ok, it's a good point of view to have. It's one that I can almost get behind, almost. But to say that torture has never worked and that we have never gathered any reliable information using it is going a bit far. The whole reason I really even brought this up was because the show openly stated "torture doesn't work" which really should of been changed to toture doesn't work.......most of the time". It seemed like the show was making a political statement and a judgement on our policies, it just struck me as odd because the show never really does that.

But seriously guys have you seen Fiona's lips? I mean I know the actress is like 37 but man she should go easy on the face surgery, the lip stuff never works out well.

Damn, that ending was cruel for Mike. Especially the balloons and champagne. Also, love the fact Mike just wants to be left alone really. He really seems to want nothing more than find who burned him and get to work. There is nothing else he really cares about in the end.

Still say this should end with him putting a bullet in her head while on the beach.

Wait. Was that really her office or was it a setup from the start? When he left to go on that job did he blow his spot up? if so, they missed some things in their detection of security.

Overall, really liked the episode. Not to comfortable with the fact they keep killing off people every episode, I'd have liked for some of them to come back!

Yeah, I think it was here office and they missed something. The whole one step ahead thing.

Yeah, the ending was basically saying that if he'd ditched his 'client', he could've gotten into the office and gotten... "something" of value to his cause. A security camera would've recorded him going in, but it wouldn't have mattered. So he lost his chance because he helped someone. Awwwwwwww...

It was a fairly clever way of keeping him spinning in place.

I think my favorite thing about this episode was the change in Michael's personality and the way he spoke when playing the safe cracker.

I get the feeling he was trying to do an impression of someone famous, but I 'm drawing a blank.

Another good episode. This is by far and away my favorite tv show right now.

I catched a few episodes and I liked what I saw, and thought about buying the first season. Went to Borders and low and behold, it was $50 something dollars. Needless to say, I put it back on the shelf.

I flew through the first season in a week and just watched all of the episodes from this season so I'm up to date. This is the most perfect lightweight entertainment on TV. It's like fast food. The cast and tone is fantastic. It was nice to see Cheese (Method Man) as well.

It is a little repetitive how every episode seems to have Michael set up a bad guy so his boss thinks he betrayed them.

http://www.amazon.com/Burn-Notice-Se...8783432&sr=8-1

25 bucks.

Catching up on season 2 on Hulu made me feel a little like this, but I think it'd meant to be classic TV, where you're only supposed to digest one episode a week. Something like LOST, with an over-reaching story arc, benefits from DVD, whereas Burn Notice, which is a formula show in the best sense, needs some space to keep the conceit fresh. I do like that they keep the cons and double crosses unique, and to my memory haven't pulled the same scam twice.

I was surprised by the little twist tonight where his basic plan was blown when the other guy said he was being investigated by the Feds. Made for a nice little change up...

Hey, look, it's Cheese from The Wire! And Daniel Jackson from Stargate!

Who played the bearded finance guy? I recognise him from somewhere but I can't quite remember.

I finally gave in and DVRed Burn Notice last night since we now get USA in HD.

and it looks great in HD. I love the Miami vibe, Burn Notice pulls off sexy while CSI:Miami pulls off glossy. I like both shows btw..

but after finally giving it a go, I must say that the narration is probably the best part of this show. I can't believe i waited this long to watch it.

It took me a while to place the bearded finance guy, he looked familiar. He played the tech guy in "Threshold."

I was very pleased with this episode. I loves the Shanks character and hope he becomes a series regular! I think he could be the real perfect villian to the show because Shanks is just so damned charismatic, hell... he kept up with MacGuyver for Pete's sake!

YES, thank you, that was driving me nuts. And there was a show I wish went on for longer, if only to get to stare at Gugino every week.

Cheeeeeese!!!

Hear ya...

But, I kinda look at it as practice/a set-up for his ultimate betrayal mission...Finding-out who burned his booty!!

I loved Michael putting a freaking X-ray into his trunk. They've really upped their game this season.

Yeah...like really?? Who does that? Haha...

But, I guess if you also know how to whoop people's behinds with an issue of Cat Fancy...anything is possible!?

Tonight's ep. sounds pretty interesting. Pharmaceuticals, and east African thieves...

Westen meets some of the weirdest criminals from the strangest places!? Love it, tho!!

I'm a bit behind, but to have back-to-back guest villains of Andrew Divoff and Oded Fehr is even greatness into this show. Too bad we'll have to wait until early next year to see the other half of the season....

Just the punctuation:

That looks just like a silhouette of Fi.

I was pleasantly surprised by Shanks. I've avoided SG1 like the plague that it is (yeah, I said it. Bring it fanboys. It's horrible....horrible! Even my man crush for RDA can't make me watch it) so I've only seen Shanks sparingly. He always seemed very shallow and a weak actor. But boy, he played the heavy well. He was much bigger than I expected and played the ass very well.

Donovan's double takes & surprised looks/stares toward Virgil got some pretty good laughs out of me. And he played the weakling role pretty well...

Three weeks? To quote Charlie:

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

I do the same while texting, wasting both valuable character space, AND time...

AND, WHAT!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!????!?!!?!?!?!?!?!??!? !?!?!?!!????!?

"Just be glad you didn't have to see that.." in regard to Virgil.

I can't believe how loud I was laughing at that.. Man this show just makes me happy.

The last episode kinda reminded me a little of Usual Suspects...

I don't know which is worse: that there aren't any episodes for three weeks or that there are only two more left this season (or at least, this half of the season).

Ahem, don't you mean Senator Clay Davis?

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiit.


And I loved weaselly Michael and also the gang leaders face when he realized Weston wasn't a schmuck

While I've always enjoyed Donovan and think he fits the character well, this past week's episode was his best acting job yet. Between his reaction to Virgil and playing the dweeb he knocked it out of the park. When he turned off dork mode and shot the truck his expression was utterly priceless. Probably my favorite shot of the entire season (no pun intended).

And I think next season Fi's backbone should be its own supporting character. So, so nasty. Get that girl a cheeseburger!

What are you talking about? Gabrielle Anwar is amazingly hot in this. So very slammable.

I beg to differ my good man. She just looks so emaciated all the time. I like her character and she plays it well, but she looks horrible. It always cracks me up that the background shots always focus on a couple of fantastic looking locals and then when it gets to Fi her Skeletor-like visage is just laughable.

Admit it, Smails, you're just hot for Sharon Gless.

My cover is blown! Its the hair I tell ya. Like bright, golden sunshine.

well thanks to Time Warner Cable, they decided to take AWAY USAHD after the olympics, so now I'm stuck with the regular USA channel again. I'm going to miss Burn Notice in HD.

Pretty sure you were supposed to have that vibe when weasel Michael gave his whining speech about "Finley" (Findlay? Hell, I dunno). That was almost exactly the Kevin Spacey speech in Usual Suspects when Soze's name was first mentioned.

While I wholeheartedly agree with Iain sentiments that everyone should be watching "Burn Notice", he's got it totally wrong in comparing Michael to Bond. Michael is the anti-bond. No fancy gadgets. No suave demeanor. No seducing the ladies. If you want to compare "Burn Notice" to something, it's "MacGuyver" if "MacGuyver" wasn't retarded.

I'd add in a little bit more of an A-Team vibe as well

Glad that it's back but as we reach the end of the season, I just have to note a few things:

- I like the darkness in Michael's past that they're hinting at. I don't think it's going to be a major thing and I don't want it to be a major thing but I like that it's there.

- This season has shown us some great antagonists and failed to keep them around. We haven't seen Carla since episode four, we only saw Victor once, and it looks like we're done with Matheson malevolence for now.

- Are cell phone jammers commercially available? Are they really that small? If so, I'm taking one with me to the theatre from now on.

How is it that seasons of Monk seem to go on endlessly but Burn Notice is over too soon? At least the season isn't totally over. Almighty Wikipedia says we get seven more episodes in early 2009